RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[UlseDovThur]

You know what I agree completely on us having talked about the apprentice issue we have talked that issue to death and I do apologize bringing it up again. Now onto to research I really do want to focus on doing more research not only to finish up projects we've started but also continuing the Rune of Metal I believe at least it'll lead us to creating Anvil's of Doom so I really do want to continue working on it.

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What? We don't need the Rune Metal research to make Anvils of Doom. Anvils of Doom are simply a kind of Runic item that hasn't been invented yet, they don't need a special kind of material like Adamant to make them, pretty sure they're just made of Pure Gromril.

I'm honestly confused how you came to the conclusion that the Rune Metal line of research would somehow lead to the invention of a Runic Magic amplifier.

 

[ConfusedCanuck]

What? We don't need the Rune Metal research to make Anvils of Doom. Anvils of Doom are simply a kind of Runic item that hasn't been invented yet, they don't need a special kind of material like Adamant to make them, pretty sure they're just made of Pure Gromril.

I'm honestly confused how you came to the conclusion that the Rune Metal line of research would somehow lead to the invention of a Runic Magic amplifier.

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I thought if we pursue the Rune of Metal we could create a material strong enough to withstand more then 3 runes on it. Which would be needed to create a Anvil of Doom if I'm wrong about that my bad, I still want to follow the Rune of Metal though to see what it gives us then though I'm still certain that the Anvils of Doom weren't just made of Pure Gomril. That had to be made of something more then that given how powerful a AoD is.

 

[Praetor98]

I'd prefer to make something all our own instead of the Anvils.

 

[UlseDovThur]

I thought if we pursue the Rune of Metal we could create a material strong enough to withstand more then 3 runes on it. Which would be needed to create a Anvil of Doom if I'm wrong about that my bad, I still want to follow the Rune of Metal though to see what it gives us then though I'm still certain that the Anvils of Doom weren't just made of Pure Gomril. That had to be made of something more then that given how powerful a AoD is.

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I mean, I don't think that Anvils of Doom require more than three Runes, they just need the correct ones which themselves probably haven't been invented yet. The Anvils themselves are probably a unique form of Talisman.

 

[ConfusedCanuck]

I mean, I don't think that Anvils of Doom require more than three Runes, they just need the correct ones which themselves probably haven't been invented yet. The Anvils themselves are probably a unique form of Talisman.

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Eh the thing is about the Anvil's is that all we know about them is that there really powerful. And really that's about it for all we know you could be right and that we simply haven't found the right Runic Combination to them yet. Or I could be right in that the Anvils need a even stronger Material to withstand there power to function properly. But still I want to pursue the Rune of Metal since even if it doesn't give us AoD's it's still bound to give us something valuable at the very least and I personally want to see what that is.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

Song of the AzrilGromthi
(Sung to the tune of "I'm a Mountain" by Sarah Harmer)

​

Say you beastmen in your howling horde,
Tell me now, where is your lord?
I've a bone to pick,
With your so-called 'Rik',
Where'd he go?

And you Cygor with your bloodshot eye,
Your stinking breath and your festering hide,
Did you really think that you wouldn't die?
Where's your head?

Oh I spent the day at a cursed gate,
My hammer singing out to every foe,
I am a mountain,
And this mountain's gonna bring you low.

All you Frundar traitors, curse your eyes!
Damn you faithless cringing unbaraki,
I swear I'll take each of your lives,
'Ere I go.

Hogrimm Ironhand, nearly worst of all,
Second leader of the fall,
What waits for you, in the dark beyond?
Gazul knows.

Oh, I'll strike you down with a vengeful hand,
Yes that's right Beardling, try it! Try and pray!
I am a mountain,
I am the mountain standing in your way.

I am a mountain,
I am the mountain standing in your way.

 

[CuriousRaptor]

T5 rune metal is probably what will break the rule of three and allow four runes. I doubt it'll take longer than producing gromril chain. That said, going for movement of things after gromril chain means that it might finish around the same time as we build up the adamant to make the bloodthirster gronti. Just would need to finish movement of things and quickly do kholek's brain to see if it's useful for it or not.

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It explicitly will though, Rune metal 5 took 12 steps to finish, and we'll have likely 4 more steps or more to reach rune metal t5 as a producible product going from how hard it was to get adamant going, and that is assuming we don't need to understand purification first, or need to research entirely new branches of rune science to just try and test our theory. Meanwhile, we can make a forge to get Gromril stupidly hot already, and use Adamant as the block against which the gromril is forged and turned to wire for the chain, so we have a major step up there. chain of gromril was always going to be far easily than a rune metal tier no one but Grugni, Thungni, and maybe Alaric and Durin ever even heard about much less made. It's going to have a lot of logistical pitfalls that a dwarf would find unacceptable and that's assuming we can somehow Macguyver a new rune together to forge it.

 

[Void Stalker]

For research, next turn is a 3 action turn. So 1 action on Durazkul to finish that and 2 on Silverwood, Hearthstones or Firebirds Feather will finish those.

Turn 34: 4 actions on rune metal pt 5- gets us 7 actions plus potential brotherhood procs so at most 4 actions left in pt 5 which we can overflow on turn 35 to get progress into pt 6.

And given the work we had to do for Adamant I expect that we will need extra work for whatever T5 gromil ends up being so hopefully pt 5 will lets us know what we need to work on. After that turn 36- 4 actions on rune metal 1b for 7 of 8 and if we dont get a proc from standing we can spend 1 action to finish it up on turn 37 and work on crafting/requests with the other 3.

 

[TehChron]

Genuinely confused why people seem to think that Gromril Chain is going to be equivalent to iterating further upon Gromril to produce Adamant, which is in itself already a T4 Reagent that very few Runesmiths are capable of manipulating in the first place.

Let alone producing with any real reliability.

Managing Gromril Chain is a matter of skill.

The next tier beyond Gromril is a T5 ingredient that requires surpassing Durrin's Consternation on top of figuring out where exactly one goes from here regarding Adamant being metaphysically purified.

It simply begs the question of how you manage to get more purified than that before anything else. By comparison, Gromril Chain is incredibly straightforward, and likely to push us to the next tier of Flexing in a number of categories, which given the revamp to the Favor and Standing systems means it'll have a much more immediate payoff.

 

[TortugaGreen]

You know, I'm a big fan of the fact that I've seen planning mentioning turn 60 - it just feels incredibly dwarfy to go around making serious plans for what we'll be doing 280 years down the line, almost as long as we've been a runesmith. While I don't think anyone's focussing on that timespan, the fact that it's considered is classic Dwarf Planning.

 

[Void Stalker]

I look at Gromil Chain being useful for lower level projects initially, such as gromil chain armor for rangers who do not want the full armor sets we normally forge rune gromil into. I can also see the use in the talisman slot, such as a torc on gromil chain. I am also hopeful that over time we can improve that to adamant chain though that is likely some steps down. It also works as a break after rune metal pt 5 to give us time to figure out how to proceed and possibly for ingredients needed for the runes we need to get T5 gromil to arrive. That is why I want to pursue Rune Metal Pt 5 before Pt 1b. Just would rather do so on turns 34 and 35 when we have 4 actions we can put on and proc an extra 3 actions from each so that the overflow will hopefully offer us some hints. And that way next turn we can clear two items off of the research list since the odd items do not have follow ups.

 

[UlseDovThur]

Eh the thing is about the Anvil's is that all we know about them is that there really powerful. And really that's about it for all we know you could be right and that we simply haven't found the right Runic Combination to them yet. Or I could be right in that the Anvils need a even stronger Material to withstand there power to function properly. But still I want to pursue the Rune of Metal since even if it doesn't give us AoD's it's still bound to give us something valuable at the very least and I personally want to see what that is.

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So, looked it up and;
"The Anvils of Doom are ancient devices forged with great skill by the Runesmiths of old in the bowels of the Thunder Mountain. Using the energy of the volcano's heart, Kurgaz, the most skilled of the old ones, melted gromril to forge the anvils. As they cooled, Kurgaz beat the Rune of Sorcery onto each gleaming anvil. "
"Their powers can be broken down into three broad categories: those dedicated to Grimnir that emphasise fury, those dedicated to Grungni that emphasise effort, and those dedicated to Valaya that emphasise loyalty."

So Anvils of Doom had the Master Rune of Sorcery followed by the Rune of either Valaya, Grungni, or Grimnir along with probably the Rune of the Runesmiths choice.

 

[TehChron]

I look at Gromil Chain being useful for lower level projects initially, such as gromil chain armor for rangers who do not want the full armor sets we normally forge rune gromil into.

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That's because you're looking at it from the perspective of being a pure crafting material.

But Gromril Chain has a certain level of prestige attached to it due to its inherent rarity and difficulty in making. There's likely a faction devoted to being able to produce it or develop it that'll make itself known once Snorri manages to accomplish the feat, the same way one moved as he progressed along the production of Adamant.

 

[ConfusedCanuck]

So, looked it up and;
"The Anvils of Doom are ancient devices forged with great skill by the Runesmiths of old in the bowels of the Thunder Mountain. Using the energy of the volcano's heart, Kurgaz, the most skilled of the old ones, melted gromril to forge the anvils. As they cooled, Kurgaz beat the Rune of Sorcery onto each gleaming anvil. "
"Their powers can be broken down into three broad categories: those dedicated to Grimnir that emphasise fury, those dedicated to Grungni that emphasise effort, and those dedicated to Valaya that emphasise loyalty."

So Anvils of Doom had the Master Rune of Sorcery followed by the Rune of either Valaya, Grungni, or Grimnir along with probably the Rune of the Runesmiths choice.

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Huh ok good to know so if we want to create Anvil then we'll need the Rune of Sorcery to create one, and while that is Canon we don't know if that's Soulcake Canon still it's good to know we'll need the Rune of Sorcery to create.

 

[Garlak]

... It would be interesting to see what Standing and Favor with "Cult of Smednir" would result in, when it comes to Standing 5+...

We currently only have Favor (and Standing) with the Cult of Valaya and the Cult of Gazul. (And the Cult of Thungni, i.e. the Runesmiths, are too individualistic; we rack up bonii from individual Runelords. Though being in good standing with the Conservatives and Radicals is still useful. And the Brotherhood of Dron of course.) Being able to find out what the Cult of Grimnir, the Cult of Grungni, the Cult of Morgrim, and the Cult of Smednir might get? That'd be cool.

And currently, I think we're only likely to have a path to getting Cult of Smednir attention and interest, with the Gromril Chain thing.

... Frankly, if the Standing 5 bonus is just "Chance to proc extra progress when doing Material Science research" except replace "Material Science" with "Metal", that'd be neat -- as that would apply to the long Rune Metal path to Adamant+. (Whereas Gromril Chain is, uh, probably shorter. Because, among other things, we aren't facing Durin's Consternation on it on top of other things.)

 

[Aventur]

To add to the runemetal debate:

Finishing pt.1 let us understand the nature of gromril, we got this

Gain:
- The Rune Metal Chain has begun! Next piece of the chain unlocked.
- Narrative insight, mechanical insight into many things. Progress to ??? (2-1) =1 and ??? (3-1) =2

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Pt.5 will let us understand the nature of adamant (but not what is wrong with it or how to fix it) and may give us progress on the hidden mechanics.

 

[BungieONI]

To add to the runemetal debate:

Finishing pt.1 let us understand the nature of gromril, we got this



Pt.5 will let us understand the nature of adamant (but not what is wrong with it or how to fix it) and may give us progress on the hidden mechanics.

Click to shrink...

Uh. We do understand the nature of Adamant, Soul spent a good bit of effort going into some detail about it. Now that that's been established Snorri's trouble is where to go from there.

 

[soul ice]

It was noted that a perfect rune smith would need no reagents to scribe runes. My guess is that the skills and tools for Gromril chain creation are essential for making greater runes.

 

[Alratan]

Ranald hasn't ascended yet and the ancestors Gods for all their good points are rather lacking in the domain of luck. Not even any ancestor God of exploration.

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Runesmiths have to make their own luck, literally.

 

[Aventur]

Uh. We do understand the nature of Adamant, Soul spent a good bit of effort going into some detail about it. Now that that's been established Snorri's trouble is where to go from there.

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Perhaps I phrased that wrongly. During pt.1 we were poking around in the dark until a sudden insight gave us a starting point for adamant. Part 5 should do the same for the next material.
The main problem that people seem to have with continuing the runemetal chain is that the rewards are so far away. Making progress on the hidden modifiers would be an immediate reward.

 

[BungieONI]

Perhaps I phrased that wrongly. During pt.1 we were poking around in the dark until a sudden insight gave us a starting point for adamant. Part 5 should do the same for the next material.
The main problem that people seem to have with continuing the runemetal chain is that the rewards are so far away. Making progress on the hidden modifiers would be an immediate reward.

Click to shrink...

Hidden modifiers?

There aren't any. The more actions we take in rune metal the more likely we'll upgrade a trait relevant to that research project, but that's pretty much it.

 

[bird yells]

Hidden modifiers?

There aren't any. The more actions we take in rune metal the more likely we'll upgrade a trait relevant to that research project, but that's pretty much it.

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He's talking about the time Snorri completed the very first leg of rune metal research, which provided no immediate improvements but incremented progress bars on two different ~*mystery bonuses*~. These would be the hidden modifiers he's talking about. He's hoping that completing part 5 of rune metal will finally tick those same two mysterious progress bars over to completion and reveal what they are (and making the implicit assumption that they weren't just showing progress on something that's long since been completed, like eg. Snorri acquiring the mind for metal trait or figuring out the metaphysical impurity thing).

 

[BungieONI]

He's talking about the time Snorri completed the very first leg of rune metal research, which provided no immediate improvements but incremented progress bars on two different ~*mystery bonuses*~. These would be the hidden modifiers he's talking about. He's hoping that completing part 5 of rune metal will finally tick those same two mysterious progress bars over to completion and reveal what they are (and making the implicit assumption that they weren't just showing progress on something that's long since been completed, like eg. Snorri acquiring the mind for metal trait or figuring out the metaphysical impurity thing).

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Odd time for them to tick over if so. It makes way the heck more sense for that to be mind for metal and something that is no longer relevant (as there has been no hide or hair of it since).

 

[ArchAIngel]

If we're doing mainline Rune Metal, I strongly suggest doing Purification first. Chain is fine, but knowing how Purification works HAS to do something.

 

[BungieONI]

If we're doing mainline Rune Metal, I strongly suggest doing Purification first. Chain is fine, but knowing how Purification works HAS to do something.

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Same thing is likely applicable to 1b since its a offshoot and involves coming to greater understanding of Gromril, which is the entire point of the tree.