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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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soulcake said:
Can I use an apprentice action to complete this request?
A. No, apprentice actions can only go up to half (rounded down) of a SIMPLE request's total action cost. So if a simple request had 3 total actions, you could only apply apprentice actions to it until it was 1/3 progress.
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I'd note that Apprentice action can't finish an action (nor can they overfill action). So if something has 1 action remaining, you can't throw an apprentice to it and then throw own action for it.
 
soulcake said:
It fits, I will let this happen. Know that if your proposed machine is too crazy out there(IE not related to a grudge thrower or bolt thrower) you'll have to burn favour to get the engineers to agree to make it.
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Absolutely, I'm just thinking like a supersized Bolt Thrower or something. The point of the proposal isn't a crazy machine, its just a Heckin Chonker of one that we rune up to the gills and the runing to the gills is the important part.
 
I would like to make an argument against Plan Metal and Sharp Stuff:

To complete this plan we need a total of 11 actions.
This will probably take 3 turns for us to complete. I tried writing it down, but it got too long and convoluted. So I decided to tabulate the results :)
The number in the table is the number of actions invested in a turn
Plan titleturn 1turn 2turn 3total actions spenteffective actionsoverflow
Overflow3 (Progress 6)3 (Progress 11)3 (Progress 16)9164
Metal and Sharp Stuff (A)1 (progress: 2)3 (Progress 7)3 (Progress 12)7120
Metal and Sharp Stuff (B)1 (progress: 2)4 (Progress 8)4 (Progress 14)8142
Shortest time4 (Progress 7)3 (Progress 12)0 (Completed)7120

The argument goes something along the lines of, given that in this situation we have 2 traits that Proc, it would be more effective to trigger them three times, rather than the 2 that all the other plans involve.
I didn't include longer plans that take 2 actions per turn because those don't proc our traits and are too sub optimal
 
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Whassup said:
I'd note that Apprentice action can't finish an action (nor can they overfill action). So if something has 1 action remaining, you can't throw an apprentice to it and then throw own action for it.
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thats sort of covered by saying you cant go over half (rounded down) I think? I remember confusing people when I had it in the description the last time too :^(
 
IronFist said:
I would like to make an argument against Plan Metal and Sharp Stuff:

To complete this plan we need a total of 11 actions.
This will probably take 3 turns for us to complete. I tried writing it down, but it got too long and convoluted. So I decided to tabulate the results :)
The number in the table is the number of actions invested in a turn
Plan titleturn 1turn 2turn 3total actions spenteffective actionsoverflow
Overflow3 (Progress 6)3 (Progress 11)3 (Progress 16)9164
Metal and Sharp Stuff (A)1 (progress: 2)3 (Progress 7)3 (Progress 12)7120
Metal and Sharp Stuff (B)1 (progress: 2)4 (Progress 8)4 (Progress 14)8142
Shortest time4 (Progress 7)3 (Progress 12)0 (Completed)7120

The argument goes something along the lines of, given that in this situation we have 2 traits that Proc, it would be more effective to trigger them three times, rather than the 2 that all the other plans involve.
I didn't include longer plans that take 2 actions per turn because those don't proc our traits and are too sub optimal
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Complete what? What are you arguing? As is, it'll be four turns without my plan unless a plan wins putting all 4 actions on it in one turn, because my plan is the only one with Rune Metal this turn. Otherwise, it'll be four turns (0 + 3(5) +3 (5) +1 or 3(5)
 
tri2 said:
oh yeah soulcake how are you going to handle golem actions with the rule of pride since iirc there were entire ARMIES of runic golems
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Same way it's already been established to work: yes, pride is great, but if the hold needs a bunch of more or less bulk production items, it's best to just ignore the rules.
 
TortugaGreen said:
Same way it's already been established to work: yes, pride is great, but if the hold needs a bunch of more or less bulk production items, it's best to just ignore the rules.
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really hope this means we can secretly make a book of runes to train future rune smiths and lords, for the good of the hold to make sure this knowledge is not lost
 
soulcake said:
thats sort of covered by saying you cant go over half (rounded down) I think? I remember confusing people when I had it in the description the last time too :^(
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It was more of a problem before the 2 apprentice actions. But hmm... Theoretically, if we had some multi-action request with 1 action remaining... Could we finish it with an Apprentice action (if other rules followed)?
 
Whassup said:
It was more of a problem before the 2 apprentice actions. But hmm... Theoretically, if we had some multi-action request with 1 action remaining... Could we finish it with an Apprentice action (if other rules followed)?
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No we can't because 1 action remaining on any request is necessarily more than half.

The hypothetical progress bar on that request is already over the halfway mark.
 
tri2 said:
oh yeah soulcake how are you going to handle golem actions with the rule of pride since iirc there were entire ARMIES of runic golems
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TortugaGreen said:
Same way it's already been established to work: yes, pride is great, but if the hold needs a bunch of more or less bulk production items, it's best to just ignore the rules.
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This only goes so far.

Master Runes are the single exception to this. You don't spam Master Runes, you can make one kind a lot over your life for sure but a large amount in a short amount of time will undoubtedly make people stare and other Runesmiths shake their heads. The one thing moderates and the hardliners agree on. Whatever you feel regarding the normal runes being used so often flies out the window with Master Runes.
Whassup said:
Theoretically, if we had some multi-action request with 1 action remaining... Could we finish it with an Apprentice action (if other rules followed)?
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You cant go over half of the cost.
 
BungieONI said:
No we can't because 1 action remaining on any request is necessarily more than half.

The hypothetical progress bar on that request is already over the halfway mark.
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soulcake said:
You cant go over half of the cost.
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What he means is, suppose Snorri puts an action himself into a 2-action simple request, bringing it to 1/2 with no apprentice actions invested. Could the request then be finished with an apprentice action and no further contribution from Snorri on the following turn?
 
bird yells said:
What he means is, suppose Snorri puts an action himself into a 2-action simple request, bringing it to 1/2 with no apprentice actions invested. Could the request then be finished with an apprentice action and no further contribution from Snorri on the following turn?
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No, because the trigger for [Can we put an apprentice action into it?] it is [Is the Request half done or not]. If not, then yes. If it is half done, then no.
 
soulcake said:
This only goes so far.

Master Runes are the single exception to this. You don't spam Master Runes, you can make one kind a lot over your life for sure but a large amount in a short amount of time will undoubtedly make people stare and other Runesmiths shake their heads. The one thing moderates and the hardliners agree on. Whatever you feel regarding the normal runes being used so often flies out the window with Master Runes.

You cant go over half of the cost.
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the thing is all rune guardians use a master rune of awakening as the core rune according to the wiki and those are just lesser versions of the actual rune golems. so it looks like the master runes were spammed if only a little bit. Even assuming there is about 100 rune golems and 500 rune guardians that is still about 600 of the same master runes, or am i just mistaken in thinking this is a high number?
 
tri2 said:
the thing is all rune guardians use a master rune of awakening as the core rune according to the wiki and those are just lesser versions of the actual rune golems. so it looks like the master runes were spammed if only a little bit. Even assuming there is about 100 rune golems and 500 rune guardians that is still about 600 of the same master runes, or am i just mistaken in thinking this is a high number?
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Its not really, if you think about Dwarf Holds as having actually quite a few Runesmiths in the Golden Age and them being built up to those numbers over great spans of time as the order declines.
 
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bird yells said:
What he means is, suppose Snorri puts an action himself into a 2-action simple request, bringing it to 1/2 with no apprentice actions invested. Could the request then be finished with an apprentice action and no further contribution from Snorri on the following turn?
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Ah, gotcha.

I've clarified that in the FAQ now, if for some reason that the request has passed the action threshold you cannot add apprentice actions.
tri2 said:
the thing is all rune guardians use a master rune of awakening as the core rune according to the wiki and those are just lesser versions of the actual rune golems. so it looks like the master runes were spammed if only a little bit. Even assuming there is about 100 rune golems and 500 rune guardians that is still about 600 of the same master runes, or am i just mistaken in thinking this is a high number?
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These were made in the tail end of the golden age as everything started falling apart. The kind of cultural impetus to make the dwarfs get rid of that restriction isn't here. If it ever happened. There were way more Runesmiths in that time than there are in canon.
 
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