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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Torgamous said:
If we start talking about if this doesn't work out, Mami will interpret that as Sabrina not expecting it to work out and crumble before it starts.
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Yeah, I agree. I like Kaizuki Rev 4 Model B anyway. I make similar edits as with the other one, though.

[X] Kyouko would like to reconcile with her, but has a *lot* of difficulty believing that that's possible. Whether she believes it's Mami or herself or both of them that makes reconciliation hard varies. Still, you think this is likely to work out or else you wouldn't be doing this.
-[X] As for expectations? Kyouko doesn't expect this to work, and she doesn't expect much good to come of it. That only makes this more important.
--[X] Pause for a bit.
---[X] Honestly? Speaking as the third party, here, the expectations of both sides in this situation seem to be completely broken from a lack of clear communication, and probably shouldn't be relied upon. Mami really needs to tell Kyouko that she still cares about her, and Kyouko really needs to hear it. Worrying about literally anything else should come afterwards.
[X] Onwards with dinner!
- [X] Experiment with magic cosplay and set the table as maid-brina. With hair extensions.
- [X] Any particular dinner conversation?
-- [X] Sayaka's training with Kyoko and Yuma seems to be going well. You're proud of the progress she's made.
-[X] Inform Homura about the meeting, and ask her to give Mami and Kyouko some privacy.
[x] Arrange the meeting with Kyouko
-[X] Invite her to the apartment but don't push if she rejects that
 
[x] Kaizuki

I think, IMHO, it is sorta important to point out that Kyouko thinks Mami will shot her. Specifically it shows that Kyouko is just as scared of this not working as Mami is and also that Kyouko expects to be SHOT AT and is STILL asking for the meeting.

Kyouko wants to attempt to reconcile with Mami so badly she is willing to risk being shot at by Mami 'unlimited musket works' Tomoe. If that does not convey the value Kyouko puts in this meeting I don't know what does.
 
DB_Explorer said:
Kyouko wants to attempt to reconcile with Mami so badly she is willing to risk being shot at by Mami 'unlimited musket works' Tomoe. If that does not convey the value Kyouko puts in this meeting I don't know what does.
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I sort of agree but for different reasons. I think Kyouko is afraid of this meeting because losing Mami as a friend hurt then and still hurts, and getting a fresh violent rejection would also be painful. By way of contrast, running away from Mami, when she doesn't really want to kill Kyouko, when Sabrina would almost certainly run interference if it came to that (and I think Kyouko trusts that response), is not such a bad risk.

So, if we think we need say clearly that Kyouko is invested in this and willing to take a risk on it, that would be my approach. I'm still thinking about whether the need to say so is a weakness in my current vote.
 
Genial Precis said:
I sort of agree but for different reasons. I think Kyouko is afraid of this meeting because losing Mami as a friend hurt then and still hurts, and getting a fresh violent rejection would also be painful. By way of contrast, running away from Mami, when she doesn't really want to kill Kyouko, when Sabrina would almost certainly run interference if it came to that (and I think Kyouko trusts that response), is not such a bad risk.

So, if we think we need say clearly that Kyouko is invested in this and willing to take a risk on it, that would be my approach. I'm still thinking about whether the need to say so is a weakness in my current vote.
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Oh I get that its just I think people more easily understand physical risks during emotional moments like this. So one can lead to bringing up the other.
 
DB_Explorer said:
Oh I get that its just I think people more easily understand physical risks during emotional moments like this. So one can lead to bringing up the other.
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I subscribe to the school of communication which says that indirectness is a burden so you should only take it up for clear, specific reasons that outweigh the burden. I don't think emphasizing Kyouko's remark about wanting assurances of not getting into a fight is a good idea unless we specifically mean to tell Mami she shouldn't attack Kyouko. Which which we don't.

As for whether or not we should say something to the effect of "Yo, Kyouko feels super vulnerable and uncertain about even attempting this but she's being brave and giving it a chance because she's serious about it"... I'm indecisive. Moreover, is it actually true that Kyouko "doesn't expect this to work, and she doesn't expect much good to come of it."? In particular, I don't want to misread Mami's question. Like, what does she think Kyouko expects given how Sabrina presented the situation?

Hmmm.

There's a consistent story of "She wants to reconcile, and is willing to open a dialogue, but doesn't believe reconciliation is possible based on expectations that you consider unrealistic, and if they just have a talk they'll be on the same page and can figure out what to do next". That is the right thing to say, I think. I am happy with Kaizuki B and my revision thereof.
 
...

*taps fingers*

yknow the original reasoning behind that line was to protect against my very first reading of the last chapter, which was a problematic "uh, Brina, you're amazing but are you sure Kyouko actually wants this and you're not just trying to make it happen for me, I literally fought her last time" sort of deal.

The line was meant as, "If I didn't know Kyouko wanted this, I wouldn't be trying to make it happen."

Which is probably how I should've written it ;_;

And... Actually I think exchanging it to that probably addresses in part Precis' idea? Thoughts?

[X] Kyouko would like to reconcile with her, but has a *lot* of difficulty believing that that's possible. Whether she believes it's Mami or herself or both of them that makes reconciliation hard varies. If you didn't know Kyouko wanted this, you wouldn't be trying to make it happen.
-[X] As for expectations? Kyouko doesn't expect this to work, and she doesn't expect much good to come of it. That only makes this more important.
--[X] Pause for a bit.
---[X] Honestly? Speaking as the third party, here, the expectations of both sides in this situation seem to be completely broken from a lack of clear communication, and probably shouldn't be relied upon. Mami really needs to tell Kyouko that she still cares about her, and Kyouko really needs to hear it. Worrying about literally anything else should come afterwards.
[X] Onwards with dinner!
- [X] Experiment with magic cosplay and set the table as maid-brina. With hair extensions.
- [X] Any particular dinner conversation?
-- [X] Sayaka's training with Kyoko and Yuma seems to be going well. You're proud of the progress she's made.
-[X] Inform Homura about the meeting, and ask her to give Mami and Kyouko some privacy.
[x] Arrange the meeting with Kyouko
-[X] Invite her to the apartment but don't push if she rejects that
 
Hmm. Yes, I read the change in the first line as somewhat of an improvement. Overall it looks good to me, though I certainly don't have fresh eyes at this point.

[X] Kaizuki

Edit: One thing I'll note is that Mami seems generally super hopeful and pleased about this. We may be overselling the idea, in the sense that she's already willing to give it a go. I don't see much harm if that's the case though.
 
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Genial Precis said:
Hmm. Yes, I read the change in the first line as somewhat of an improvement. Overall it looks good to me, though I certainly don't have fresh eyes at this point.

[X] Kaizuki

Edit: One thing I'll note is that Mami seems generally super hopeful and pleased about this. We may be overselling the idea, in the sense that she's already willing to give it a go. I don't see much harm if that's the case though.
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Yeah ngl, we're getting "I care about you Kyouko" out of Mami and to Kyouko. And at that point, we're probably pretty much good to go.
 
Now that the vote has settled, I should make a note here:
Redshirt Army said:
I do agree that stealing a Clear Seed from one of the peripheral groups we've handed them out to would be more in the interests of the Iowa group.

That said, targeting us directly doesn't necessarily imply incompetence - we've long suspected that Iowa might be aimed at us by Kyubey, and if that's the case, Kyubey will obviously go out of its way to make sure his troubleshooting group actually attacks the anomaly gumming up his system, instead of just hitting an irrelevant group and retiring.
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I think Iowa's most sensible target is probably Sendai, given they have not only the clear seed but also a massive stockpile. Even if it's no longer being maintained it's also not going to be drained very fast either. But then again that might be more the style of a heist-oriented group.

Even more than Kyubey taking an active role here however, it's also worth noting that Iowa will be driven by some kind of philosophy and ideology and that that will determine how they make their decisions. After all, they wouldn't go around knocking over cities in the first place if they didn't think on some level, for some reason, that they deserved to. Whether that be simply "fuck you I got mine" or something broader/more concrete than that. And that's without even considering what their choice to use gunboat diplomacy says about them.

For instance, even without Kyubey's involvement, I could see us being targeted as we're kind of establishing ourselves as the local protector/hegemon and by going through us they can both remove the region's protector and demonstrate that they're too strong to be resisted in one act.

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In other news, rereading and...
The blue haired girl sighs. "Three Grief Seeds a week," she says, holding up three fingers to demonstrate. "We can... could barely keep up with it. My parents... I don't live with them anymore," she smiles bitterly. "The same goes for most of us, really. It's... better than the alternative."
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We should probably see if Tsubaki Chouko is witchbombed sometime. Because that line sure sounds like it would come out of witchbombed reasoning.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I think Iowa's most sensible target is probably Sendai, given they have not only the clear seed but also a massive stockpile. Even if it's no longer being maintained it's also not going to be drained very fast either. But then again that might be more the style of a heist-oriented group.

Even more than Kyubey taking an active role here however, it's also worth noting that Iowa will be driven by some kind of philosophy and ideology and that that will determine how they make their decisions. After all, they wouldn't go around knocking over cities in the first place if they didn't think on some level, for some reason, that they deserved to. Whether that be simply "fuck you I got mine" or something broader/more concrete than that. And that's without even considering what their choice to use gunboat diplomacy says about them.

For instance, even without Kyubey's involvement, I could see us being targeted as we're kind of establishing ourselves as the local protector/hegemon and by going through us they can both remove the region's protector and demonstrate that they're too strong to be resisted in one act.
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The Pleiades Saints are just as likely a target, they don't have a stockpile like Sendai do, but they have 2 Clear Seeds, and an extra clear Seed, is worth more than a stockpile of normal Seeds, then there's the fact that Sendai has multiple veterans, whereas Kazumi is the only veteran the Pleiades Saints have, so logic would have it, that the Pleiades Saints are a somewhat easier target than Sendai.
 
tarrangar said:
The Pleiades Saints are just as likely a target, they don't have a stockpile like Sendai do, but they have 2 Clear Seeds, and an extra clear Seed, is worth more than a stockpile of normal Seeds, then there's the fact that Sendai has multiple veterans, whereas Kazumi is the only veteran the Pleiades Saints have, so logic would have it, that the Pleiades Saints are a somewhat easier target than Sendai.
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While the Pleiades have two clear seeds among seven less experienced girls to Sendai's two and nine, I rate Sendai as highly as I do on the "sensible target" scale because they still have, what was it? 300 or so ordinary grief seeds? Thus if anything goes wrong with the --- new, untested --- clear seeds, that's still quite a haul to be had.

Plus there's the fact that while the Sendai has more magical girls and more veterans, they're split into two groups that hate each other. They might not outright attack each other now, but they'll be hard pressed to come to each other's aid.

On which note, Oriko implied to us that she knows things about Iowa. It occurs to me that she may have seen them in her visions, and a likely time to have done so, if they didn't gun straight for us, would be while she was looking into Sendai. Their involvement may have been tied to the intensification, or what touched things off in the scenario where we didn't butterfly things. Especially if their justification for actions is some kind of "Team America: world police" sort of thing.
 
Figuring out the Iowa group's capabilities and intentions is necessary soon-ish (don't want to be pre-empted after all), but maybe a more direct source of intel would be appropriate? Make a crystal ball and see what they're up to?

Also, while normally they demoralize a group, most targets they might attack are in a position to call for help, at which point we presumably... hunt them down in timestop? Especially if they were to actually get the drop on us and open with something egregious. I wonder whether Kyuubey could actually get away with interfering with telepathy to prevent such a call for help, in case they're really working in such close cooperation. It seems like not? I only consider the matter specifically because interfering with communication seems like their best bet for delaying a response, if they actually understand what they're up against. Which is also unclear.

So anyway, more definite intel would be good, however obtained. What are their capabilities, methods, intentions and whereabouts. We probably have some fairly brute-force options for obtaining such. Ideally before they get around to acting against us, whenever that might be.
 
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