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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Muramasa said:
Something like this for starters?

[] "They're good people. I think you can see that too."
[] Yeah. You can see how you could come off as arrogant or condescending back then. That's not what you intended at all. Apologize.
-[] Also you need to apologize for violating her privacy. You won't defend it. There were ways to get your message across without doing something that drastic. You disrespected and mistreated her. She has every right to be angry with you on that one. You're very sorry.
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Apologizing for things you're not actually sorry for (and don't believe to have been in the wrong about, on balance) just makes you ingenuine and insincere. We made mistakes back then, but we were also working on incomplete and imperfect information whilst dealing with an actual life-or-death crisis. Telling Ono that she was entirely in the right and that her self-destructive tantrum was justified will only reinforce bad behavior (legitimately dangerous bad behavior).

She made violating her privacy necessary when she refused to meet and stopped communicating even when we tried to explicitly express just how important it was. We're sorry we had to do it, but our reasons for doing so were entirely justified.
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
Apologizing for things you're not actually sorry for (and don't believe to have been in the wrong about, on balance) just makes you ingenuine and insincere. We made mistakes back then, but we were also working on incomplete and imperfect information whilst dealing with an actual life-or-death crisis.
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I am actually sorry about that though? Whatever reasons we had doesn't change the fact that we went about things in a really awful way.
 
Muramasa said:
I am actually sorry about that though? Whatever reasons we had doesn't change the fact that we went about things in a really awful way.
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If someone decides to hold their head underwater until they drown, and I safe their life by roughly yanking their head out of the water by pulling by the hair, I'm not going to be sorry about it.

Like, the situation was awful and delicate, but we had no better options we could think of. I was hoping Ono had progressed to the point that she was willing to acknowledge that she put her own life in mortal peril and that we actually saved her life, but failing that, I don't think it's a good idea to apologize for bailing her out of an unintentional suicide largely of her own making.
 
Tempestuous said:
What chapter was it that Ono Megane first appeared in? I can't remember what her deal is at all, or how that interaction actually went.
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She first appeared in Interloper 18, where things were somewhat amiable if stilted, and we planned to meet and help her learn the ropes later (Our Benefactor 1-2). IIRC We had to postpone that meeting due to Mami breaking down/Barrier testing going wrong/Feathers/Elsa Maria threatening Sayaka, which she took as an affront (possibly heightened by her having a mediocre life in general) and blew us off (taking nothing about us or being a magical girl seriously). This escalated into us breaking into her house in time-stop, freaking her out and forcing us to restrain her as we tried to get her to reckon with the gravity of her situation and get through her snide responses (Residue Processing 11-21). We got her to train under the Animators, leading us to where we are now.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
If someone decides to hold their head underwater until they drown, and I safe their life by roughly yanking their head out of the water by pulling by the hair, I'm not going to be sorry about it.

Like, the situation was awful and delicate, but we had no better options we could think of. I was hoping Ono had progressed to the point that she was willing to acknowledge that she put her own life in mortal peril and that we actually saved her life, but failing that, I don't think it's a good idea to apologize for bailing her out of an unintentional suicide largely of her own making.
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I can't say I really agree with this perspective. If you save someone's life by giving them CPR and break their ribs in the process it's still nice to apologise about breaking their ribs even if you deem the action as a whole as necessary. If necessary actions have regrettable components then it makes perfect sense to apologise for the regrettable components.
 
Firnagzen said:
Still, I'm trying something slightly different with the voting this time.
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Mmm.

[X] She's probably just fishing for an apology from you. Apologise, and be done with that.

I think she is both giving us flack for how we handled it and offhandedly thanking us, but I dunno.

Honestly, I don't feel there's a need for a write-in or justifications. Brinapilot will say what she will and I'm fine with that, wherever it lands on the "I'm sorry, miss Ono." and "I'm sorry, Ono, and go fuck yourself." spectrum.

I can live with that.
 
Much like Ono I often like to make my life more difficult for myself by making stupid choices, ignoring or outright spiting the helpful advice of people around me, so maybe I can offer a helpful perspective on this problem.

Ono most likely really doesn't like being told what to do and is strongly convinced that the choices she makes, though stupid by common sense, are what she wants to do for herself.
We first told her what to do a couple times, and then we threw her under the custody of people who would tell her what to do aall day long, and we treated her like an idiot the whole time. Of course she's pissed at us.

Like she said, she didn't listen to us because we were arrogant. We saw that she was making stupid decisions and we immediately categorized her as stupid and took it upon ourselves to save her from herself. There may not have been a better way to go about things due to the life-and-death nature of the situation, but from her perspective that was an asshole move.

Long-term, she needs to be given gentle advice on how to live a healthier life and she shouldn't be treated with a minimum of human respect, not as an idiot that will get herself killed the moment you look away.
Short-term... I don't know. If I were in her shoes, an insincere "sorry", a sarcastic "you're welcome" and an insensitive "stop being such an idiot" would all just reconfirm my disrespect for Sabrina. Someone with better write-in skills might be able to come up with something.
 
Raiseth said:
Mmm.

[X] She's probably just fishing for an apology from you. Apologise, and be done with that.

I think she is both giving us flack for how we handled it and offhandedly thanking us, but I dunno.

Honestly, I don't feel there's a need for a write-in or justifications. Brinapilot will say what she will and I'm fine with that, wherever it lands on the "I'm sorry, miss Ono." and "I'm sorry, Ono, and go fuck yourself." spectrum.

I can live with that.
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That vote sounds like it's already settled on the "go fuck yourself" side, though. "Be done with that" isn't how you approach a sincere apology, it's how you approach an apology the teacher is making you give.
 
Torgamous said:
That vote sounds like it's already settled on the "go fuck yourself" side, though. "Be done with that" isn't how you approach a sincere apology, it's how you approach an apology the teacher is making you give.
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I mean, this is an option presented to us by the QM, who wants to try something different in this vote, and either it is a prompt to give as sincere an apology as we can manage or a clever trap disguised as an option to punish our potential complacency, so yeah, your concerns are valid.

To be honest, it's a coin toss for me. I don't know how Sabrina feels about the incident, and I haven't been around back then, so I don't feel that much of anything about it, too. True, we were rude. Also true, we were trying to save her and didn't know a polite way to do it.

So yeah, I'm for leaving it up to Sabrina to say what she's sorry for, if anything.

Personally, I think she will try to apologize, at least because her performance was suboptimal and she's been musing about the necessity of moving on and doing better in the same update, and there are things she could've done better, in hindsight.

How Ono reacts to that is another question entirely, but I don't think we should prevaricate over her opinion, because if Sabrina does apologize, she will do it for herself, to acknowledge her faults and promise to improve. Because she obviously cannot apologize for the intent itself, which was saving Ono, basically. Sabrina cannot apologize for that as certainly as she cannot leave a Homu or a Mami Unhugged, the universe just doesn't work that way.

Since, you know, Megucas are for saving, Ono is a Meguca, and when Madokami tells her to go save, Sabrina asks only how fast. :V
 
Raiseth said:
I mean, this is an option presented to us by the QM, who wants to try something different in this vote, and either it is a prompt to give as sincere an apology as we can manage or a clever trap disguised as an option to punish our potential complacency, so yeah, your concerns are valid.

To be honest, it's a coin toss for me. I don't know how Sabrina feels about the incident, and I haven't been around back then, so I don't feel that much of anything about it, too. True, we were rude. Also true, we were trying to save her and didn't know a polite way to do it.

So yeah, I'm for leaving it up to Sabrina to say what she's sorry for, if anything.

Personally, I think she will try to apologize, at least because her performance was suboptimal and she's been musing about the necessity of moving on and doing better in the same update, and there are things she could've done better, in hindsight.

How Ono reacts to that is another question entirely, but I don't think we should prevaricate over her opinion, because if Sabrina does apologize, she will do it for herself, to acknowledge her faults and promise to improve. Because she obviously cannot apologize for the intent itself, which was saving Ono, basically. Sabrina cannot apologize for that as certainly as she cannot leave a Homu or a Mami Unhugged, the universe just doesn't work that way.

Since, you know, Megucas are for saving, Ono is a Meguca, and when Madokami tells her to go save, Sabrina asks only how fast. :V
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Lol, this looks as a complete opposite to the argument I was giving against an apology to the Dagger Girl and Her Companions, and I'm completely at a loss and terrified.

But, well, accents aside, my position remains the same, only that since Sabrina has resolved to try and do better, I'm fine with apologizing for the specifics of how we've accomplished things but not for the whys of us trying to do these things in the first place.
 
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[X] I won't pretend to be perfect, or all-knowing. I did the best I could at the time, even if all I could think of was being a sledgehammer in a delicate situation--the alternative was you dying.
-[X] I'm sorry that I violated your privacy, but at the time all I could think about was the fear that you'd be dead by morning if things continued as they did.
-[X] I'm also sorry that I blew off our initial appointment--my friend had just been Witch-Kissed and was in mortal danger, and after rescuing her, we didn't give you the consideration that we should have.
--[X] I'm genuinely very glad you're doing alright, and that you're getting along well with Masami and Hiroko--they're great people. I'm hoping we can have a fresh start from here on out, Miss Ono.
 
[X] I won't pretend to be perfect, or all-knowing. I did the best I could at the time, even if all I could think of was being a sledgehammer in a delicate situation--the alternative was you dying.
-[X] I'm sorry that I violated your privacy, but at the time all I could think about was the fear that you'd be dead by morning if things continued as they did.
-[X] I'm also sorry that I blew off our initial appointment--my friend had just been Witch-Kissed and was in mortal danger, and after rescuing her, we didn't give you the consideration that we should have.
--[X] I'm genuinely very glad you're doing alright, and that you're getting along well with Masami and Hiroko--they're great people. I'm hoping we can have a fresh start from here on out, Miss Ono.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I did the best I could at the time, even if all I could think of was being a sledgehammer in a delicate situation--the alternative was you dying.
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I want to apologize for only being able to think of being a sledgehammer. Am I wrong to say that we've been trying to do that less since Ono? Was this bit here not inspired partly by how we treated her?
Firnagzen said:
I've got... control issues I'm trying to be better about, but..."

You wave your hand through the air, blobs of Grief trailing the motion in a little comet tail of deep purple.

"Control. My Wish, my magic, my... everything," you say, grimacing. "My tendency to run roughshod over people, because of course I know better and why don't they just listen to me and do what I say. I'm doing my best to be better about it, but it's definitely, ah, part of me, you know?"
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The Phoenixian said:
Careful Brina, jacking directly into ethernet ports is a slippery slope that quickly leads to figuring out if your brain can run Doom.
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Actually, what is wrong with running Doom in your brain? I generally used to go over code in my head as a way to debug it, and while I never had access to Doom's code, I had a book with examples on how to make Doom clones. The original is essentially a bunch of 2-d Images (and anImations) drawn in layers. I started making a cardboard version of Doom once.

Or do you mean the 3-d remakes?


On a seperate note, fishing for an apology and thanking us are not mutually exclusive. Could Sabrina apologize and graciously accept the thanks?

[X] Redshirt Army
 
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[] I've seen you at your worst Ono, and your worst is a beutiful young woman who deserves to be happy and healthy and alive. And I'm not going to apologize for trying to save your life.
 
I personally refuse to apologize, her calling us arrogant is nothing more than hypocrisy and projection of her own shitty attitude into our actions. She thought she knew better and behaved as such, we actually knew better and saved her life from her own arrogance and stupidity.

[x] She's thanking you, in her own way. Acknowledge that.
 
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[X]Redshirt Army
-[X] I won't pretend to be perfect, or all-knowing. I did the best I could at the time, even if all I could think of was being a sledgehammer in a delicate situation--the alternative was you dying.
-[X] I'm sorry that I violated your privacy, but at the time all I could think about was the fear that you'd be dead by morning if things continued as they did.
-[X] I'm also sorry that I blew off our initial appointment--my friend had just been Witch-Kissed and was in mortal danger, and after rescuing her, we didn't give you the consideration that we should have.
--[X] I'm genuinely very glad you're doing alright, and that you're getting along well with Masami and Hiroko--they're great people. I'm hoping we can have a fresh start from here on out, Miss Ono.
 
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