[] Don't pressure them, it's their choice
-[] "Really, I'm just glad you are in a position to decline. I kinda wish we all could claim to live simple lives, would be much more peaceful all around, I'd think."
I'm back! after cooling my heels a bit. Glad to see this quest still going!
...
[Q] Just before leaving
-[Q] You and Mami? Yes.
—[Q] Yes!
-[Q] First name basis? Hah. Three words. Best. Hugs. Ever! You should know, you're a hug connoisseur. *wiggle eyebrows*
[Q] Make Grief shades, and walk away with Yuki, ignoring frenzied pleas for more information.
Thank You, I am grateful! A vision of the good life. BTW, Kirika immediately made sense to me.
Please know I say this next as part of positively enjoying what you have done. May I point out a minor continuity edit? Is that Table-san at the lower left?
This conversation has an important result - we should probe the thinking of these girls who refuse "free money." That will help us understand Tokyo in some way. At a minimum, their understanding of Kyuubey, and the time they have been hunting Witches is significant, as is a view into what they use their time for. Seeing as they say combat isn't a big part of their lives, what IS the major concern they are engaged in? It isn't school and family. Not at least trying to ask is wasteful.
Provided no "alarms" are in the conversation, the third motive we should try is to open lines of support for the day they find the Witchbomb on their own. Part of that should be our demo before we leave? When the truth that they live on a timer is forced upon them, knowing beforehand that the friendly girl over yonder can fix it for them might keep somebody sane.
Collecting points to vote...
-[] Hina loves to gossip? That means she has numerous superficial contacts. Can we hire her for announcements / PR?
-[] We are glad you are in a position to decline.
-[] They have been doing this long?
--[] What about school? Money? We have some plans...
--[] Has Kyuubey been treating them well?
-[] Do make it clear that they can reach you via telepathy or your email if they change their mind
-[] Invite them all to visit sometime. Enchantment circle? Picnic?
[] Demo real cleansing. Let them see / hold Grief. Buy their full Grief Seeds, if they won't let us buff them a little. [] Afterwards...
- [] Ask Yuki to join a group hug! (be Clever!Brina)
- [] Try and (call out to) Mugin before heading back for lunch
-[] Ask Yuki about building reproduction and transplantation.
-[] Set the 'menu' for Tokyo. What will we jointly say?
Thank You, I am grateful! A vision of the good life. BTW, Kirika immediately made sense to me.
Please know I say this next as part of positively enjoying what you have done. May I point out a minor continuity edit? Is that Table-san at the lower left?
[Q] They are refusing your kindness. Your protection.
-[Q] REEEEEEEEEE-
[Q] Open up your labyrinth and stuff all the offending Gucas inside. Create a copy of Mami's apartment for them to have tea parties in.
-[Q] Look at Yuki and shrug.
Mmm
[X] Ask them if they'd rather have you over once a week for a cleansing session. Offer to renew all the Grief Seeds they have on them to the standard capacity and ask them not to give Kyubey any.
[X] Ask them to send your way any Meguca they couldn't accommodate by themselves. Seed scarcity is a non-issue for you and all that.
[X] Admit that you indeed seem to be Robin Hood-y, but you prefer to be called Azure San Francisco. Mostly, you steal people's Grief though.
[X] Afterwards
-[X] Tell Yuki that she officially has your permission to obliquely imply to Hina that you and Mami are dating and then pretend ignorance on the issue.
-[X] Birdie birdie birdie!
We told Yuki Iowa was moving in this direction and asked if they had any information about them. The information we received constituted a huge red flag (1), enough that we basically have to move against Iowa group, enough that Homura will want us to move against Iowa group, and that kind of changes the situation from the "Hey these people seem like they're heading in this direction, we're gonna have to fight them eventually, know anything about them?" that we produced in the previous conversation to "Yeah we're going to take these people down in the near future because they're going to come here and try to do worse things than just killing us and it seems like they could actually be a threat beyond just a martial one", and the difference between those lines is a big deal.
So there's two things that, actually, yes we do need to raise with Yuki about Iowa. Number one is whether she can elaborate on the things she said about them "seeming to have a 'clairvoyant'" in a way that doesn't agree with the existing hypothesis that said clairvoyant is actually Kyubey. Number two is, if she doesn't have anything to say that would contradict that, then, I mean, at that point we're going to be planning on first striking Iowa and we should really tell her that. We'll have to do things like figure out where the hell Iowa group is, and ideally who they are, and that's going to be -- we're going to have to push on that.
The question is whether we want to raise those points now, or later... Except... It was, anyway. Then I went and re-read the parts of PMAS relevant to this while I was writing this and now, honestly, we-- this is much more definite than I thought.
I am going to point out that a group which had cut a deal with the incubator to act as a weapon for it would act very similarly -- identically, even -- to what we have now heard of Iowa group.
"I suspect they have a clairvoyant of some kind" indeed! Yes, and you'd never be able to confirm that for sure if she didn't actually exist, now would you?
"How about the Iowa group?" you ask as the torrent of Grief from the Grief Seed slows to a trickle. "I don't actually know much about them."
"Ah," Yuki says. "An excellent question. They are raiders, from America, as you might guess. They move into areas and demand Grief Seeds from the locals by dint of their powers. The locals typically do not have the firepower to fight back - the Iowa group knows to pick their targets. They stay for weeks to months before moving on."
In other words: they show up, they don't fight unless they absolutely have to, and they sit down and push on the locals for weeks to months. Imagine being a stable, well-off meguca group -- how do you handle that? Then, combine that with this:
"They rely on shock and awe," Yuki says. "That much has been a common thread. I suspect they have a clairvoyant of some kind, because another common thread is that they nearly always arrive in a perfect position to demoralize the defenders, often by destroying or occupying some location of significance, or even catching one of the defenders alone and then maiming them to send a message."
So, to be clear: they show up. They destroy something of importance, and/or grab someone and traumatize them, and it seems like they always know exactly how to go about doing those things for maximum effect. They force the locals to give them grief seeds, by threatening (to kill them, that is). I know there was another bit somewhere that mentioned them using the witchbomb as a weapon.
All of this is just exactly what you would do to break apart a stable meguca group and witch them all out while minimizing risk to yourself.
And they do it for weeks to months???
This is just -- this is --
That's not "weeks to months." It's "as long as they have to in order to break the locals."
I didn't go far enough when I said what I said. If it looks like an Incubator weapon, behaves like an Incubator weapon, goes around doing everything in its power to destabilize places into causing witchouts without actually killing meguca, and is headed for Mitakihara during the period of time where Madoka is Kyubey's overriding objective and Sabrina Vee and Homura Akemi are thorns in Kyubey's side--
Then it's an incubator weapon. It's an incubator weapon that knows alllllllll about Kaname Madoka, and all of our powers, and unless Kyubey is secretly a Sabrina Vee fangirl they're going to show up riiiiiiight along side the potentialbomb.
"So," you say. "What do you think we should do about the Iowa group, Mami?"
"Mm? Ah," Mami says, straightening a little. "Do we know they're coming here?"
"I think it's all but guaranteed," you admit with a sigh. "They... well, they specifically have high mobility, right? They're known for wandering from place to place. And I'm a pretty big target, I think."
"This city is ours," Mami says firmly. "We'll defend it."
"Definitely," you agree. "Problem is, well..."
"We don't know anything about them," Mami says. "We should ask Miss Bennouna. Maybe ask if she knows anybody in cities raided by them?"
"On that note - I wanted to ask you more about the Iowa group, actually," you say. "Since you've heard of them?"
"Ah. So do I, as a matter of fact," Yuki says with a grimace. "I've actually put out word on the subject already, but apart from Miss Bennouna, I don't have too many international connections. I'm awaiting word from a few places, but I'd be happy to share what I get when I receive it?"
"I'd be grateful for that," you say. "Though, uh... is there anything you can share now?"
"A bit about their tactics," Yuki says, frowning. "About their powers... not too much by way of specifics."
Yuki's looking for more information already, but lacks strong international connections... I don't think that has any actual impact on our conclusions. If she doesn't already have more to say about this 'clairvoyant', I sincerely doubt something would turn up from limited connections to gainsay the standing hypothesis.
We don't know where these people are. Kyubey isn't going to show them to us willingly until all his pieces are ready to go. Given our situation, their modus operandi is tailor made to screw with us if it were somehow deployed at the same moment as, say, Homura was potentialbombed by the incubator.
Yeah, okay. No. Oriko's new magic is going to be really handy in the near future.
[X] Don't press the matter
-[X] Do make it clear that they can reach you via telepathy or your email if they change their mind
--[X] Offer cleanse before you go
---[X] Wish them well
[X] Speak with Yuki in a privacy sphere
-[X] Iowa group is an Incubator weapon, or at the very least it looks exactly like one, acts exactly like one, and randomly has a clairvoyant that just so happens to fill the exact shape of "Kyubey is passing them intel."
--[X] You're going to have to neutralize them before they show up here. The main issue with that will be finding them -- hopefully Oriko's new powers will take care of that, but in the mean time, if there's anything you can give Fukushima group that might help them learn more about Iowa's whereabouts, she should tell you. You'd also very much like to know their powers, but whoever goes to take them down will be operating under Homura's magic. Winning a fight like that is not likely to be an issue.
I'm open to comments on this, but this has to happen. Iowa Group needs to go.
You know.
I'm trying to find any relevant info about how we assumed that Iowa are definitely going to come to Mitakihara in the future and fuck our shit up, and I'm failing.
I mean, yes, we know that they were sighted in India. We know they raid cities. We know that Sabrina is making waves.
There are still several leaps of logic from that to concluding that they are going to beeline to here as soon as possible.
Rionna had an informant in Tokyo, that's how she found out about us so quickly. Somehow, I don't think a bunch of raiders have snitches in every major city in the world tho.
So. Iowa being a group in Kyubey's employ is entirely a theory we had no definite proof of, and less than enough of circumstantial evidence.
Or was that a freebie from Firnagzen? That yes, they work for Incubators and yes they are coming for us in the immediate future.
Oriko didn't tell us that. Nadia didn't tell us that.
Is Sabrina a precog now?
Eh, if I missed the part where we receive evidence that Iowa are coming, someone please post it. Can't find anything by myself.
I mean, since Sabrina's said that they are coming here in one of the previous updates, so it's as good as true I guess, but finding out how she's figured it would be very nice, thanks.
With all the new Iowa information, I say they are enough of a threat that we can't wait for them or try to talk it out before hand, if they get close people are going to get hurt even before we manage to rapid response them
We need some form of preemptive strike or meet them while between cities
Don't feel comfortable with the previously mentioned ideas of using weapons of mass destruction or gem smashing against them however
With all the new Iowa information, I say they are enough of a threat that we can't wait for them or try to talk it out before hand, if they get close people are going to get hurt even before we manage to rapid response them
We need some form of preemptive strike or meet them while between cities
Don't feel comfortable with the previously mentioned ideas of using weapons of mass destruction or gem smashing against them however
No I'm quite alright with figuring out where they are atm and wrecking them
Gotta rock our new Gem collection to show off to Soryuu Sisters
What I have some qualms with is figuring out they are gonna come to us real soon and frame our preemptive attack on them as a preventative measure Yuki has to participate in due to the defensive pact she's signed with us
If that makes sense
Yuki already agreed to help when they come to Mitakihara
Asking her to participate in a trip abroad feels like pushing it to me, for some reason
In as much as if we meet them on our home turf, Fukushima are going to help us, but if we come looking for them instead then we need to do it on our own
I dunno
Wait that brings up a good question, how on earth do you hire someone to do something if you've already given them everything they could ever want
Like in terms of grief seeds there isn't anything we could give that we haven't either already given them or be willing to just hand them just because
We broke the grief economy folks
Wait that brings up a good question, how on earth do you hire someone to do something if you've already given them everything they could ever want
Like in terms of grief seeds there isn't anything we could give that we haven't either already given them or be willing to just hand them just because
We broke the grief economy folks
They have mentioned that they were rarely paid cash, though with what we're paying them for keeping an eye on Airi's they've already got a fair bit, so they may not have an interest in cash either.
Iowa is a group that I believe should be talked with soon, but we don't have enough information to justify seeking them out and attacking them.
I believe the most effective way to get in contact with them is to go to the latest town that they invaded, somewhere in India? Ask Nadia for details perhaps. Ask the people directly what it was like dealing with them, offer support, and ask to be connected to Iowa via telepathy for the purpose of negotiation.
We told Yuki Iowa was moving in this direction and asked if they had any information about them. The information we received constituted a huge red flag (1), enough that we basically have to move against Iowa group, enough that Homura will want us to move against Iowa group, and that kind of changes the situation from the "Hey these people seem like they're heading in this direction, we're gonna have to fight them eventually, know anything about them?" that we produced in the previous conversation to "Yeah we're going to take these people down in the near future because they're going to come here and try to do worse things than just killing us and it seems like they could actually be a threat beyond just a martial one", and the difference between those lines is a big deal.
So there's two things that, actually, yes we do need to raise with Yuki about Iowa. Number one is whether she can elaborate on the things she said about them "seeming to have a 'clairvoyant'" in a way that doesn't agree with the existing hypothesis that said clairvoyant is actually Kyubey. Number two is, if she doesn't have anything to say that would contradict that, then, I mean, at that point we're going to be planning on first striking Iowa and we should really tell her that. We'll have to do things like figure out where the hell Iowa group is, and ideally who they are, and that's going to be -- we're going to have to push on that.
The question is whether we want to raise those points now, or later... Except... It was, anyway. Then I went and re-read the parts of PMAS relevant to this while I was writing this and now, honestly, we-- this is much more definite than I thought.
In other words: they show up, they don't fight unless they absolutely have to, and they sit down and push on the locals for weeks to months. Imagine being a stable, well-off meguca group -- how do you handle that? Then, combine that with this:
So, to be clear: they show up. They destroy something of importance, and/or grab someone and traumatize them, and it seems like they always know exactly how to go about doing those things for maximum effect. They force the locals to give them grief seeds, by threatening (to kill them, that is). I know there was another bit somewhere that mentioned them using the witchbomb as a weapon.
All of this is just exactly what you would do to break apart a stable meguca group and witch them all out while minimizing risk to yourself.
And they do it for weeks to months???
This is just -- this is --
That's not "weeks to months." It's "as long as they have to in order to break the locals."
I didn't go far enough when I said what I said. If it looks like an Incubator weapon, behaves like an Incubator weapon, goes around doing everything in its power to destabilize places into causing witchouts without actually killing meguca, and is headed for Mitakihara during the period of time where Madoka is Kyubey's overriding objective and Sabrina Vee and Homura Akemi are thorns in Kyubey's side--
Then it's an incubator weapon. It's an incubator weapon that knows alllllllll about Kaname Madoka, and all of our powers, and unless Kyubey is secretly a Sabrina Vee fangirl they're going to show up riiiiiiight along side the potentialbomb.
This was our previous stance on Iowa group, which is no longer an acceptably safe attitude.
Yuki's looking for more information already, but lacks strong international connections... I don't think that has any actual impact on our conclusions. If she doesn't already have more to say about this 'clairvoyant', I sincerely doubt something would turn up from limited connections to gainsay the standing hypothesis.
We don't know where these people are. Kyubey isn't going to show them to us willingly until all his pieces are ready to go. Given our situation, their modus operandi is tailor made to screw with us if it were somehow deployed at the same moment as, say, Homura was potentialbombed by the incubator.
Yeah, okay. No. Oriko's new magic is going to be really handy in the near future.
[X] Don't press the matter
-[X] Do make it clear that they can reach you via telepathy or your email if they change their mind
--[X] Offer cleanse before you go
---[X] Wish them well
[X] Speak with Yuki in a privacy sphere
-[X] Iowa group is an Incubator weapon, or at the very least it looks exactly like one, acts exactly like one, and randomly has a clairvoyant that just so happens to fill the exact shape of "Kyubey is passing them intel."
--[X] You're going to have to neutralize them before they show up here. The main issue with that will be finding them -- hopefully Oriko's new powers will take care of that, but in the mean time, if there's anything you can give Fukushima group that might help them learn more about Iowa's whereabouts, she should tell you. You'd also very much like to know their powers, but whoever goes to take them down will be operating under Homura's magic. Winning a fight like that is not likely to be an issue.
I'm open to comments on this, but this has to happen. Iowa Group needs to go.
Something to consider about Iowa is that we're reasonably likely to get new info on them after lunch, when next we talk to #nyantokanyaru/Kagoshima.
The old vote in abeyance should still be locked in, and has asking about Iowa in it, and the group noted that they pay attention to goings on in the world. In their own words:
[22:58:03] <YatanoKagami> We're a small, quiet group
[22:58:15] <YatanoKagami> But we've kept ourselves informed about the world.
------------------------------
As far as the vote goes, I still want to add:
[X] Don't press the matter
-[X] Do make it clear that they can reach you via telepathy or your email if they change their mind
--[X] Ask if they'd like to be informed if you ever develop cleansing that's less of a macguffin.
-[X] Offer cleanse before you go
--[X] Wish them well
I mean, does it even merit asking?
Aside from rubbing into Kyubey's snout that yes, we are trying to subvert the entire system they've spent millennia perfecting
Of course they would, since their primary reason to refuse is the fear to get mugged for the shiny and rare macguffin we currently distribute
Oh, a pox on your "less than enough circumstantial evidence."
You're absolutely right that we don't have hard evidence of any of this, and we probably never will, because the incubator would be interested in us not acquiring any such evidence and is above needing to leave a paper trail. But the notion that we have "less than enough" circumstantial evidence for it is nonsense up to practicality. We have plenty enough circumstantial evidence that they act exactly like an incubator weapon. Well, the action of an incubator weapon would be to come to Mitakihara and try to ruin everything we love.
You could try to spin me a yarn about how actually they're just in casual collusion with QB, or actually they're just horrifyingly competent and even more evil, but in all of those cases they constitute a group that Kyubey would surely be trying to take and point at us via manipulation. With an entity acting the way Iowa is -- that is, acting as an incubator weapon would -- there is no line between "just being that evil" and "working for Kyubey."
Not for our intents and purposes, and not for Homura's.
...
Not that any of that matters, because they are in fact an incubator weapon. It's just completely fucking obvious from the texts we've got about them.
Iowa group fails to pass the "Minimally Not Evil" test: given the option to not go around inflicting unnecessary suffering on other meguca, they've embraced going around inflicting unnecessary suffering on other meguca. That's all I have to say.
