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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Kaizuki said:
They're either a direct threat or a direct threat. If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck, either it's a duck, or it's a duck up to isomorphism.

An incubator weapon up to isomorphism moving in our general direction is a threat to be buried, whether it's an "incubator weapon" or an "unaffiliated slaughterhouse nine".
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:confused:

Kaizuki, I'm not talking about not dealing with them or treating them as a threat and I have no idea how seem to have you read that interpretation.

My point here is the need to accurately diagnose what's going on and avoid haring off on our next Hisaomi's diary moment.
 
The Phoenixian said:
:confused:

Kaizuki, I'm not talking about not dealing with them or treating them as a threat and I have no idea how seem to have you read that interpretation.

My point here is the need to accurately diagnose what's going on and avoid haring off on our next Hisaomi's diary moment.
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I'm asleep and editing my posts @_@

I'll try to come back tomorrow and say something that makes sense ><
 
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I'd like to make some minor changes that are mostly for future plans rather than immediate plans, but I view as important. I want to try talking to Iowa first and see what they want, at least by telepathy as I mentioned earlier. I also want to find their last victims, which serves as a method for gaining telepathic access, but also will give us clues as to their methods, but also help us verify or discard the theory that Kyubey is a direct sponsor of the group.

[X] It's alright, you understand. The offer will remain open in the future, if they change their mind once there's less heat and more groups with Clear Seeds.
-[X] You'll be in Fukushima relatively often due to your work with Miss Tsuruya, so they can feel free to contact you anytime.
-[X] If they want something that draws less heat, you could just clear out ten seeds worth of grief or so from a donated Grief Seed?

[X] Before leaving Fukushima, ask Yuki to provide privacy once again. Apologize for any inconvenience.
-[X] You were already considering this, and given what she's said about Iowa's tactics, you're going to try to negotiate with, and if necessary, hit Iowa preemptively. You will try to find their last victims for more information sometime soon, and they may need help anyways.
--[X] You're aware that an offensive strike isn't covered by your defence agreement: However, if it comes to an offensive strike, what would it cost?
--[X] You need to do more research and speak to your team before you can commit to anything specific, of course. If nothing else, you want to know about Iowa's trump cards ahead of time.
--[X] You'd appreciate if she kept discussions about this hidden: It seems likely that Kyubey is one of Iowa's information sources, if not their outright sponsor.
 
Johnnyboy306 said:
Later on...
Grief meguca incorporated!
Oriko suddenly busts through door.
Sabrina: A girl?
Oriko sighs and shows soul gem.
Sabrina: A magical girl?
Oriko facepalms, and transforms.
Sabrina: Oriko the magical girl!
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Sabrina: *Talking to Oriko.*
Kirikia: *Pounces, takes Orikos Hat wanders off*
Sabrina: *Follows Kirika, talking to her as if she's Oriko*
 
SolaraAscendant said:
Fairly long time reader, first time poster here.
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Yay! Pull up a browser, welcome!

[X] Glad they are healthy enough to decline.
-[X] Has Kyuubey been treating them well?
-[X] Hina's gossip skill? Will she network for us? Find the ones who need us?
-[X] Curious about their lives and goals.
--[X] What about school? Money? We have some plans...
-[X] Reach us via telepathy or email anytime.
--[X] Invite them all to visit sometime. Enchantment circle? Picnic?
[X] Demo real cleansing. Let them see / hold Grief.
-[X] We refresh - or buy full Grief Seeds. Don't dispose
[X] Afterwards...
- [X] Ask Yuki to join a group hug! (be Clever!Brina)
- [X] Try and (call out to) Mugin before heading back for lunch
-[X] Our Privacy -
--[X] Ask Yuki about building reproduction and transplantation.
--[X] Set the 'menu' for Tokyo. What will we jointly say?
--[X] We will want to think Iowa through with them, Yuki might help us understand contingencies.
--[X] Who else can we hire?

I'd like us to focus a bit on the task in front of us? Yes! Just because these two don't want to join our circus ATM isn't saying that we have nothing to talk about. They sound ignorant, but not bad. One has a skill we could be hiring her for - we don't know about the other, nor the absent members. Try a little harder to open up a future. Figure out who they are, and establish the possible relationship today.

Iowa isn't really a complex topic. If they have extorted or killed one Magical Girl, we are fine with enacting justice at some time. We also need to, for a variety of utilitarian motives. I think the only debate is the best way to make it happen. Research that doesn't tell us how to sweep them into jail is stuff that should wait for after the trial, IMHO. What we need is eyewitness accounts, telemetry, or reconnaissance. Stuff that wins fights, quickly. There will be plenty of time for a Hannibal Lecter interview after we defeat them. Time to crank out more Antimagic Enchantments.

Instead of splitting Yuki's forces (since her group will be on defense) we can ask her who else she subs out to. She must know any other merenaries, part or full time.

Growing Yuki's network is important research. If we can either Superman a node and anchor it, or 4D it to the new site, Yuki will probably give us that hug, you know?
 
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Greetins from Fukushima Japan, everyone! I haven't seen any Magical Girls yet, but I'm keeping an eye out...
Oh and Firn, what's the name of the park. I'm, uh, <.< >.> asking for a friend.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I don't like this line of reasoning:

As far as their rate of movement goes it's worth considering that even as just predators the Iowa group shouldn't be expected to take more risks than they have to, and moving onto a new city probably is a risk of some sort. Even with a clairvoyant or other information power, actually going and gathering that info presumably takes time and grief seeds.

More to the core of my point however, Iowa's actions not being based on a premise of their own sustenance and safety alone certainly sounds reasonable, but that being because Kyuubey is calling the strikes sounds off: It's not in line with his MO

Dropping hints and answering question in leading ways are one thing, but Iowa being an incubator weapon in the way and for the reasons you suggest seems to me that it would require not only steering them where he wants them to go, but also that he dictates the character of how they do it and that seems highly contrary to the way he usually allows people their own agency in things.

Instead, I think this might be overlooking the more mundane reasons for their actions. I think we should ask if there isn't a greater purpose: What if the cruelty is part of the point?

If they're raiding cities all over the world, it's not too much of a stretch to consider that they might feel they have a right to do so and that their ability to walk all over people proves that they're better than them. Yeah, it's basically high school bullies flaunting their strength and asking for lunch money given superpowers and scaled up into gunboat diplomat imperialists but we are talking about (probably) teenagers.

And if it's not rational, when you look at PMAS's recent antagonists, between Hijiri, Anri, or she who we do not name, they don't exactly tend to be perfectly rational. Even Oriko and Akkiko had shades of that.

So yeah, instead of thinking of Iowa's MO as designating them as a weapon of Kyuubey, I think we'd be much better served by first asking how Iowa's actions might reveal their characters and beliefs as a group.
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Ok, so, there's shades of "incubator weapon".

I actually doubt that Kyubey would be giving marching orders. That's not like him in the first place, he'd want them to be deniable.

But, in Kazumi Magical (not the best source, I know), it's Hijiri that approaches QB to make the bargain, no?

I expect what you would see in Iowa's dynamic -- as an incubator weapon -- is that the Iowa group would be approaching QB to ask about "what's up in the world lately" and QB would go "man, there's these girls in this city with these powers that hang out in these locations and do this stuff", and then a couple weeks later you'd see Iowa show up there and take advantage. Probably also feeds them witch locations and power levels and whatnot.

But there's plenty of shades down from that.

Take any group whose MO is "let's witch other people out." It instantly establishes a mutual interest with Kyubey, and mutual interest in witching people out means Kyubey is going to be willing to do a lot more for your group.

If they go around doing whatever they want, and it all just happens to be in QBs interest, and so QB gives them intel, over time they are functionally an incubator weapon because they're relying on QB for Intel. He gets at least one chance to manipulate the fuck out of them. Any group like that would be drawn to us like a magnet, whether because of the clear seeds or because QB insinuated we'd be easy pickings if they approached us in the right manner or what have you.

So what the precise dynamic is, I don't know, but whatever it is, it's very likely that it's awfully easy for QB to point them at us and use them as a weapon.
 
Not really keeping up with discussion these days so I don't know what's already been planned, but given the nature of her objection, offering regular cleansing trips once a week or something (cleanse all grief seeds to normal state, all girls completely) should supposedly address her problem? That being, having a clear seed is like sitting on a superweapon and a giant pile of meguca money all in one- you better be able to protect it, because the fact that it exists means people want it.
 
We should offer cleansing trips, or at least something to help keep grief seeds in circulations and not out having whatever kyubey wants happening to them. But I'm currious, because all these weekly cleansing trips is eventually going to start eating into our schedule in a big way, it might be pertinent to try to research into create that grief cube expy we keep bouncing around, so the trips at least won't need to be as frequent and maybe we won't even need to make them because they likely wouldn't have the same volatility of grief seeds, they didn't come from anything so they couldn't hatch into anything


I actualy go one MAJOR concern, we haven't seen The Rat for a concerningly long amount of time, in most timelines hardly a day goes by where he isn't pestering madoka for a contract, but since the first few days we've been here there's been a suspicious amount of radio silence on the "kyubey trying to coherse madoka" front, does anyone have any ideas on what that could be about?
 
Have we established that Hina is known to gossip?

Isn't this interesting to us?

We just met an NPC "Bard" of lower level than Nadia. Can she be hired? Would she be useful? Awaken your strategic greed, folks!
Or, we could just be interested in them as people, and get them to accept us as neighbors. Making that become an active truth IS breaking the system. We have more and more ways to save Magical Girls. Passive is not going to do it. Therefore, try to finish out real social concepts in some other vote, if I didn't tickle your fancy.

soulsguardian said:
We should offer cleansing trips, or at least something to help keep grief seeds in circulations and not out having whatever kyubey wants happening to them. But I'm currious, because all these weekly cleansing trips is eventually going to start eating into our schedule in a big way, it might be pertinent to try to research into create that grief cube expy we keep bouncing around, so the trips at least won't need to be as frequent and maybe we won't even need to make them because they likely wouldn't have the same volatility of grief seeds, they didn't come from anything so they couldn't hatch into anything


I actualy go one MAJOR concern, we haven't seen The Rat for a concerningly long amount of time, in most timelines hardly a day goes by where he isn't pestering madoka for a contract, but since the first few days we've been here there's been a suspicious amount of radio silence on the "kyubey trying to coherse madoka" front, does anyone have any ideas on what that could be about?
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My view of Kyuubey could be "It took the ride in Homura's loop, and is trying to invent optimal save-scumming." As a science-devil, would it be working around the clock to gain an information advantage in the next Loop, or hoping to break the Loops right now?

My other view of Kyuubey could be "The Anomaly in Mitakihara is a major source of unprecedented facts." It is treating us in a special manner for the moment, and is in no particular rush to kill us this afternoon. It expects to increase the harvest soon by watching Sabrina, and improving its system. Research is one of the few virtues their race has, and Rebellion noted that they indulge in it. Besides, it isn't like we have demonstrated any way to actually escape the system. It intends to cause us harm by watching, doing as little as possible, and gaining from our example.

The gripping view of Kyuubey and Madoka comes down to a few hugs, hunting some witches, a few hot dinners and one mended bridge. Our synergy with Homura is something we don't measure and appreciate accurately, for as much as we think it to be significant, it is a tidal force in the battle for Madoka. We aren't looking over her shoulder to see it happen, but Homura has GOT this. Given her experience physically goaltending against the Incubator, reducing her logistics burden and healing her, while also granting her additional coverage, has left it with moves that don't win at all. Mami isn't a tool it controls anymore, so it can't maintain a social facade. Kyuubey doesn't want to do supernatural stuff in front of Madoka all the time, and any mundane infiltration only puts another drone on the scrap pile. Think of it this way - a Kyuubey can find any human, enter any room it needs to, and exert any possible psychological pressure on a contractee - provided the girl won't run screaming. Consent is vital. Homura has a narrower gap to cover, and Madoka has more negative feelings than ever about Kyuubey. It can't just show up and go full alien robot on her, because she might cut it off herself. Homura has finally got the isolation regime she intended. Kyuubey really has only the "deal with the devil" offer script still in play, and it's waiting to pull that stunt.

Yes, we need to traverse the tech tree to get Grief Cubes. Once we do, shipping them to depots for Sabrina to unload would be practical. Training other Grief movers to do the trick would be revolutionary.
 
To make the network scale independently of Sabrina, can we use mundane force multipliers? Buy trailers. Buy prefabricated sheds or buildings. Have them delivered to a property in Fukushima. Yuki claims each one, them uses her magic to pack it back up - only now, it's more like a Transformer. Have it picked up, and sent to our targeted locations. At a time of her choosing, Yuki can then have it get up and attach itself to open land. Presto, node is up, and Yuki can step through to expand / adjust the site.

I think her team will be loving the travel benefits plan? For our test run, we need an international shipping container, and the address of a vacant lot in America or Europe.

Kaizuki said:
So what the precise dynamic is, I don't know, but whatever it is, it's very likely that it's awfully easy for QB to point them at us and use them as a weapon.
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I don't know either - but we can look at a precedent. As a "black box" expert system that controls girls, it would favor using the tactic we have already seen with Mami. Rather than the Incubator obviously trading with them, it would find reliable openings in the minds of the people it wants to use. It has a false aesthetic of "allowing the victim to choose." It also never has to deal with shifting values in negotiation, and never has a weak position. Iowa sure sounds like evil girls. I also could see a way that they may have no idea they have been following orders - and when they do, time is up for them next.
Kyuubey is all about easy?
 
Those are Seeds, not Gems. Don't think we want that imagery, unless you're going for those being Clear Seeds?

As for references... I'm guessing the phone numbers (and other numbers) are references to something? I don't know how the Japanese phone numbering system works (or postal addressing, if any of those are house numbers) and I'm too tired to try to figure out the number-to-English-by-phone-keypad spelling conversions there.
 
I'd assume that they are clear seeds as they are grief seed framework without the black sphere inside

Do we know if we can use our utility fog as a nanofabricator?
 
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