Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
We could try meditation. Particularly in conjunction with some of the other ideas.
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Might be more useful to figure out what we'd want to say, first.
Personally, I'd like to figure out whether contact is even feasible first, but this is also important.
Like, would we be approaching Dedels as a separate entity, or an aspect of Sabrina? And how does one negotiate with a maybe-hostile aspect of themselves?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
There's an obvious answer for communicating to Dedolere, actually. If this is right, then Dedolere has been trying to talk to us in invisitext and broken links, and seems to be able to notice us as being there when we're inside a barrier. So we create a barrier out of enchanted grief, so there's no time where the barrier exists and we're out of commission. Enchant it with a variety of positive emotions, things we would want to communicate to Dedolere, to Sabrina if she was drowning in the depths of despair and rage. Enchant it with the intent of communicating safely with Dedolere.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
we could also create something similar to the incubator absolute interdiction field to stop dedolere from fucking up the universe if things go south and then use some form of self hypnosis by way of a chibi and the feather we already have in our possession
keeping with this, dewitching as we think of it might not turn out to feasible, I mean the saints managed to dewitch kazumi (sort of) but technically she's still a witch, and has amnesia, so I think a more realistic step, at least I the meantime, is helping a witch regain her faculties and then find a way to give her a physical body, even if they can't really remember, or are still super depressed, or are still a grief seed or have an barrier or whatever, having them physically existing and not hiding away in their own wonderland can only help in the healing process
keeping with this, dewitching as we think of it might not turn out to feasible, I mean the saints managed to dewitch kazumi (sort of) but technically she's still a witch, and has amnesia, so I think a more realistic step, at least I the meantime, is helping a witch regain her faculties and then find a way to give her a physical body, even if they can't really remember, or are still super depressed, or are still a grief seed or have an barrier or whatever, having them physically existing and not hiding away in their own wonderland can only help in the healing process
I'm thinking that we should really share some of our theories or concerns with someone at some point in the near future, not now, cause I really feel like telling homura that we might be either madokas witch or the very entity that has been ruining her life for the past twelve years isn't going to go over well right now. but telling someone else could only really help, both from an emotional point, and in getting help for our current dilemma
Subrosian_Smithy
endless
- Location
- Washington
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
Oh man, haha
A little while ago I had a dream that I woke up at 11:30 in the afternoon, and I was late for work by two and a half hours, so I leapt out of bed and got running.
But that was when I got a text from Mami, who was my girlfriend, and she was asking me where I was. Are you here, Subrosian_Smithy? Where are you?
My stomach dropped because I knew that I was supposed to meet her at my school (despite the fact that I didn't go to school anymore). So I immediately said 'fuck off' to work and said 'nuts' to the masquerade, and griefbent a shuttle to get me to school as fast as possible. I wasn't just 'Subrosian_Smithy', I was Sabrina, too, and there was no way I was going to let Kyuubey's laws or my job get in the way of being there for my girlfriend!
I spent a bit trying to figure out how to explain to Mami that I had overslept, while she continued to text me about my quote unquote "shitty ass" school. It was hilarious and adorable that she would curse freely over private text but not even privately and in-person.
On my way to school, though, I was interrupted by a new race of aliens with inexplicable designs for planet Earth, for some reason, like frigging Doctor Who, and I realized that I was going to have to be the one to stop them, with my pure wits (and overwhelming firepower!). The aliens explained to me that they had brainwashed everyone at my old school into not noticing the aliens, and the aliens were on their way to using the school as a model dystopian society.
I got to school exactly in time to see Mami being emotionally and mentally beaten-down by the aliens, to the point that she couldn't or wouldn't even openly acknowledge that she knew who I was. She wouldn't call me "Sabrina" or "Subrosian_Smithy" or "Rose" or any other name that I would have responded to, IRL or in the dream; she would only call me by my old IRL deadname.
Then I watched helplessly as the aliens smashed Mami's soul gem with a giant robotic hammer.
I was horrified. Refuse, reject, change, reality, you can't be like this! This can't be true! This can't be happening!
Is this really how Firnagzen is going to kill Mami off!?
Then I woke up. 10/10 points for dream creativity and inexplicable emotional salience, 0/10 points for fun value.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
We know from Rebellion that the witch is the girl, just insane with all her worst emotions filling her heart and mind. So I would say to treat Dedolere as if she was a separate Sabrina, who knows all that Sabrina knows, has all the attachments and inclinations that Sabrina has, but is filled with grief and despair and self-loathing and rage and hate
Best candidate I can think of?
Sayaka, after she's been witchbombed and loopbombed and potentialbombed. She literally wished to be able to stand with us, to help us as much as we helped her.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
yeah sayaka would be a good candidate, but that would need for her to be bombed three times, with a secret of cosmic horror porportions, a secret that isn't really ours to tell, and a secret that is bad enough to break homura
thing about the potentialbomb is that it really does involve homura, and she has the right to know before anyone else, but we also know that she can't handle it
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Actually, I have another argument against this. It's truly petty, but it fits with Firn's writing being very careful with certain things.
"Something vast"? Doesn't really fit with an ordinary witch. An ontological threat? Much more fitting.
But also?
She hit us with a mental hammer.
It's gotta be Dedolere, because Firn loves to make obnoxious little jokes like that.
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I wholly support this idea, but can anyone check: Have we literally just tried to fucking talk to the invisitext directly? Have we tried voting to talk to the invisitext with more invisitext or anything?
You know. Just to scratch that off the list of dumb bullshit.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Iirc, there were some jokes in that direction, but none that went to actual votes.
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I swear if it turns out we just had to directly talk to feathers the entIRE GODDAMNED TIME
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
...
I...
...or we could...
Sabrina is...
Hey Dedolere? You're not alone?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Just write a vote in witch runes, lol. Do it, you cowards.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
ummmm OK ... how do you do invsitext again?
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Homura: So as I was saying with -
Sabrina: HOOOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT IS WAS SO OBVIOUS AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WHY DID I NOT SEE IT BEFORE
Homura: ..... ?___?
Sabrina: .. no please continue it can wait.
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Wasn't that basically what happened when we had the UKG realization while we were dealing with Hijiri? Redshirt even put a line in his vote about staying calm, and screaming our heads off later.
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
~Some Time Later~
Sabrina: So I figured out what was messing with people! My witch can act outside of time before they technically exist!
Homura: ...
Sabrina: Uh... Homu-?
Homura: *terrified and appaled* WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT KIND OF THING CAN WAIT?!
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's not like the precedent isn't there; Madokami was able to do all sorts of stuff despite not technically existing.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
there we go again forgetting about occoms razor
"we were having a moment and I didn't want to interrupt"
also yeah I am also curious of how to write invisitext
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Alright, @Firnagzen I'm adding a pair of notes to the end of the vote.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have done this before now, sorta like I did earlier today with Sayaka. I'm going to explain what I know about the dynamics at work and how that's informed my thinking, and more details on what I've done. I've asked you to trust me time and time again, and I've taken it for granted time and time again."
-[X] Subtext: "I've helped to change others already" and "We're partners"
-[X] Grief chairs and table, this is going to take a while. Use grief to provide visuals where appropriate. Adjust order of topics as needed to fit best flow.
[X] Try to reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, be professional, be patient, don't pressure, provide examples, logos not pathos, you're wanting her to see and check your reasoning. You're working together, so you need to work together, which means you need to share information. Whenever you got something through meta-knowledge say as much and explain the metaknowledge -- after all, it's knowledge Madoka gave you, so it's important.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself.
--[X] Case studies:
---[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds.
---[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo. She wants to work together this time, and has even said to you earlier today that she considers Homura a friend whom she trusts.
---[X] Kyouko's literal disillusionment, Yuki's magic being "friendly", Yuma getting healing after her abused background, your own control issues. Homura's desire to go back and have more time with her friend.
---[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged.
----[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment.
----[X] Oriko's wish rejection started shortly after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
---[X] Normally Kirika wishes to be someone Oriko could love, and gets time-slowing powers to let her get all the time she can with Oriko. This time, Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future.
----[X] Explain how the dynamic between Kirika and Oriko results in either Kirika enabling Oriko's recklessness, or Kirika holding it back. How it was only after Kirika's inevitable death in other timeline that Oriko went completely crazed. Explain how Kirika has been helping you talk Oriko around, to stop her from seeking "suicide-by-mage". There are reasons you call them the Kures, not the Mikunis, and one of them is because Oriko isn't calling the shots any more. Everyone always talks to Oriko, but you've also talked to Kirika. Kirika can be persuaded to sway Oriko, and Oriko is persuaded by Kirika and things involving Kirika. Explain spraybottle incident as an example.
-[X] You haven't been idle during your regular check-ins with the Kures either. You've been steadily working to reform Oriko. You're not simply trusting that she's changed, you've been actively working toward it, and you're not letting that blind you to the possible risks.
-[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack.
-[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation onto other topics.
[X] Remain calm about any sudden insights.
[X] Hello? Are you there? If you are, you're not alone. I'm here to help everyone.
[X] "Okay, I... I really should have done this before now, sorta like I did earlier today with Sayaka. I'm going to explain what I know about the dynamics at work and how that's informed my thinking, and more details on what I've done. I've asked you to trust me time and time again, and I've taken it for granted time and time again."
-[X] Subtext: "I've helped to change others already" and "We're partners"
-[X] Grief chairs and table, this is going to take a while. Use grief to provide visuals where appropriate. Adjust order of topics as needed to fit best flow.
[X] Try to reassure Homura by explaining why we believe what we believe. Be thorough, be detailed, be professional, be patient, don't pressure, provide examples, logos not pathos, you're wanting her to see and check your reasoning. You're working together, so you need to work together, which means you need to share information. Whenever you got something through meta-knowledge say as much and explain the metaknowledge -- after all, it's knowledge Madoka gave you, so it's important.
-[X] Detail to Homura wish-magic psychology, particularly wish rejection, so she doesn't have to take your argument on faith and can apply the reasoning herself.
--[X] Case studies:
---[X] Mami's magic is based around ties to life, after she wished to live. As a result, she can't forget the pain caused by severed bonds.
---[X] Sayaka wished to be useful, so that she could be part of a team. Her powers are great given our support to build up, but would have been useless if she was solo. She wants to work together this time, and has even said to you earlier today that she considers Homura a friend whom she trusts.
---[X] Kyouko's literal disillusionment, Yuki's magic being "friendly", Yuma getting healing after her abused background, your own control issues. Homura's desire to go back and have more time with her friend.
---[X] Oriko started out wanting control and her own death, due to her family issues. She wished to know the meaning of her life, but the only meaning she could find was in suicidal martyrdom, which her power obliged.
----[X] She gave up those motives and lost that power. This power is driven by different motives, namely satisfaction with reality and a desire to enjoy it in the moment.
----[X] Oriko's wish rejection started shortly after you apologized for threatening to witch Kirika, and Oriko apologized for her own actions. Earnest regret for one's wish is the surest form of rejection. She lost her precognition, and suffered as she thought she must.
---[X] Normally Kirika wishes to be someone Oriko could love, and gets time-slowing powers to let her get all the time she can with Oriko. This time, Kirika wished to help Oriko, and received the power to turn off powers. That was what convinced Oriko that she didn't need to rely on her visions of the future.
----[X] Explain how the dynamic between Kirika and Oriko results in either Kirika enabling Oriko's recklessness, or Kirika holding it back. How it was only after Kirika's inevitable death in other timeline that Oriko went completely crazed. Explain how Kirika has been helping you talk Oriko around, to stop her from seeking "suicide-by-mage". There are reasons you call them the Kures, not the Mikunis, and one of them is because Oriko isn't calling the shots any more. Everyone always talks to Oriko, but you've also talked to Kirika. Kirika can be persuaded to sway Oriko, and Oriko is persuaded by Kirika and things involving Kirika. Explain spraybottle incident as an example.
-[X] You haven't been idle during your regular check-ins with the Kures either. You've been steadily working to reform Oriko. You're not simply trusting that she's changed, you've been actively working toward it, and you're not letting that blind you to the possible risks.
-[X] Work through the technical considerations. This power is not proactive. For defending Madoka you actually prefer actionable info about the real world rather than hypotheticals and vague warnings. Clairvoyance is less dangerous of a power even if she did mean to attack.
-[X] You're open to discussing additional safety measures too, but that discussion should happen with Sayaka and Hitomi's input.
-[X] You're here to help make sure things can be fixed, most of all to help Homura. Turning Oriko from an enemy into an ally, from a threat to an additional layer of protection, that seems like fixing things.
[X] Remain in timestop to continue conversation onto other topics.
[X] Remain calm about any sudden insights.
[X] Hello? Are you there? If you are, you're not alone. I'm here to help everyone.
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- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
[X] Godwinson
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I'm not gonna lie, I'm looking at this whole discussion from a bit of a distance, because... I really just don't care about Dedolere, in and of herself? Like, I'm getting the impression that there's meant to be some big buildup to a battle in the center of the mind or whatever, and it's just... not interesting to me.
Like, I'm straight up more interested about how we'll eventually handle Sasa.
Oh no, Sabrina has some deep dark urges to be a control freak, and we'll speech at Dedolere and give our soul some hugs and it'll be fine. Maybe write some sappy poetry to Mami in witch runes. Just be close to our friends and try our best to be kind and it'll work itself out.
Like, I'm straight up more interested about how we'll eventually handle Sasa.
Oh no, Sabrina has some deep dark urges to be a control freak, and we'll speech at Dedolere and give our soul some hugs and it'll be fine. Maybe write some sappy poetry to Mami in witch runes. Just be close to our friends and try our best to be kind and it'll work itself out.
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- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm scared about what kind of response we'll get; but at the same time, intrigued.