- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Uh, @Firnagzen? The last two updates are both marked as "Nova Prospekt pt. 20".
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
Katana, just for rule of cool. everyone wants an engraved Katana
- Location
- Germany
I'd suggest a notebook into which we burn a transcript with heated grief. Far easier to read.
It's pretty obvious that those positions are irreconcilable. Sabrina can't accept not helping someone because they could hurt others, Tokyo can't risk any one group becoming too powerful for 20 MGs to handle since it would eventually result in a war that destroys the entire city.
What people seem to forget is that we don't have to go all the way. Instead of Clear Seeds, we can do a weekly trip to clean grief seeds to triple capacity.
Our goal of letting them live and not just survive is fulfilled, as is Tokyo's goal to keep the peace through power balance.
[X] Giving everyone Clear Seeds threatens the power balance keeping Tokyo from war. Cleansing soul gems and filled grief seeds doesn't, while still helping the meguca here.
-[X] Suggest weekly visits for cleansing as a compromise for now. Is that something they think the Council would accept for all groups?
-[X] Besides, you can just double or triple the capacity of a grief seed, you don't need to empty it all the way to a Clear Seed.
- Location
- Europe
Memory manipulation would explain how Toshimichi stays so informed and how she keeps them under control. Memory reading to get information and memory modification to make them forget anything that would cause issues.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Alright, I finished updating the Tokyo Politics tab.
A couple of things stand out.
This is the first mention of the Sumida Group. Given the context, we can assume that they're similarly belligerent to Meiji.
So Meiji call a meeting of the Council after one of their members "dies", there's a lot of fear and anger and shouting, Toshimichi kicked the Meiji's representative out of the meeting about their group member's death, and then everybody who was at the meeting can't remember any of the details?
And the member of the Osaki group who was at the meeting conspicuously failed to mention it to her boyfriend at all?
That all sounds a lot like one of the Meiji groups members witched, they tried to bring it up in the Council, and Chiyoda emergency memory wiped everyone to keep the witchbomb under wraps. If that's the case, no wonder Meiji's belligerent. The shitty thing is, though, they've already "rejected our offer entirely", which strongly implies trying to help them's gonna be tricky.
We can't really act on this information now, (even if we had Sayaka anti-magic blast the memory wipe away, that would just suddenly witchbomb multiple girls) but it's something to keep in mind. Among other things, it means Sayaka really should be witchbombed before we involve her much deeper in Tokyo politics.
As for the vote, here's my first draft:
[ ] You'll clearly need to discuss things with Chiyoda in detail before you can commit to anything.
-[ ] Ask Kurenai for advice on how to contact Chiyoda.
[ ] You'll might try to arrange for some other "personal" visits to other Tokyo groups to gather their perspectives and address their concerns as well, before a more official meeting with the Council.
-[ ] Are there any other groups Kurenai thinks we should visit?
-[ ] It'll be difficult, but it's probably worth contacting belligerent groups like Meiji to see if we can get them to calm down by offering help.
[ ] By telepathy, to Sayaka: It seems pretty likely that Chiyoda have some kind of memory manipulation available, and is using it to forcibly keep things secret. You don't approve, but given how destabilizing some secrets can be, there's a twisted logic to it. You doubt much good will come of poking at memory gaps with Osaki, but you'll need to develop some countermeasures before dealing with Chiyoda.
[ ] Ask Kurenai and her group if they have any questions for us?
-[ ] Answer honestly, barring the bombs.
-[ ] Once everything's answered, thank them for their time and head home.
A couple of things stand out.
This is the first mention of the Sumida Group. Given the context, we can assume that they're similarly belligerent to Meiji.
So Meiji call a meeting of the Council after one of their members "dies", there's a lot of fear and anger and shouting, Toshimichi kicked the Meiji's representative out of the meeting about their group member's death, and then everybody who was at the meeting can't remember any of the details?
And the member of the Osaki group who was at the meeting conspicuously failed to mention it to her boyfriend at all?
That all sounds a lot like one of the Meiji groups members witched, they tried to bring it up in the Council, and Chiyoda emergency memory wiped everyone to keep the witchbomb under wraps. If that's the case, no wonder Meiji's belligerent. The shitty thing is, though, they've already "rejected our offer entirely", which strongly implies trying to help them's gonna be tricky.
We can't really act on this information now, (even if we had Sayaka anti-magic blast the memory wipe away, that would just suddenly witchbomb multiple girls) but it's something to keep in mind. Among other things, it means Sayaka really should be witchbombed before we involve her much deeper in Tokyo politics.
As for the vote, here's my first draft:
[ ] You'll clearly need to discuss things with Chiyoda in detail before you can commit to anything.
-[ ] Ask Kurenai for advice on how to contact Chiyoda.
[ ] You'll might try to arrange for some other "personal" visits to other Tokyo groups to gather their perspectives and address their concerns as well, before a more official meeting with the Council.
-[ ] Are there any other groups Kurenai thinks we should visit?
-[ ] It'll be difficult, but it's probably worth contacting belligerent groups like Meiji to see if we can get them to calm down by offering help.
[ ] By telepathy, to Sayaka: It seems pretty likely that Chiyoda have some kind of memory manipulation available, and is using it to forcibly keep things secret. You don't approve, but given how destabilizing some secrets can be, there's a twisted logic to it. You doubt much good will come of poking at memory gaps with Osaki, but you'll need to develop some countermeasures before dealing with Chiyoda.
[ ] Ask Kurenai and her group if they have any questions for us?
-[ ] Answer honestly, barring the bombs.
-[ ] Once everything's answered, thank them for their time and head home.
- Location
- Germany
Any specific reason to meet someone who can read/wipe our memories? Despite the leadership role, the Chiyoda group doesn't seem to have all that much influence overall.
We'd need to spend days to weeks on politics - visiting, convincing, and pressuring groups - to get the Council to accept full distribution of Clear Seeds. And that still wouldn't deal with the fact that we'd risk war by handing out the equivalent of nuclear weapons.
It seems much more logical to find a compromise that allows us to help without the issues Clear Seeds pose to their fragile power balance.
A proposal like "weekly cleansing" allows us to bypass that entire drama and get right to helping.
Sure, we'll still need a second visit with Madoka and Hitomi, but addressing individual groups doesn't actually help that much, especially when it risks a mindwipe.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's the proposal they're currently gridlocked over. We didn't know clear seeds were a thing when the offer was made.
If that's the case, doing that and never following up privately afterwards was deeply irresponsible.
This quest is all about overthrowing systems, right?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
As @Torgamous says, offering weekly cleanses is what caused the current gridlock, and we can't suddenly implement it without discussion from the Council anyhow. So meeting with Chiyoda remains important.
I don't disagree, but for all we know they did follow up privately. Meiji still apparently "doesn't want a war", so clearly some minimal baseline acceptance took place. And it's not like Meiji wasn't irresponsible as all hell themselves if they really did drop the witchbomb in the middle of a Tokyo Council meeting.
We can't get involved in every unsavory action every bigger group has ever done. We don't have the time (or the right) to be the world police. Hell, if someone suddenly dropped the witchbomb on hundreds of refugees in Mitakihara (and with twenty seven teams, Tokyo definitely has hundreds of magical girls), I'd be scrambling for any kind of solution we could find, including having Sayaka use her copied memory magic to buy time. And Tokyo didn't have the advantage of unlimited cleansing.
- Location
- Germany
Again, despite their mediator/leader role, Chiyoda doesn't seem to have all that much influence in the Council. Why commit to meeting them specifically, when we suspect they have access to mind magic?
Or the mindwipe was a bit more extensive than you think. Could be both.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
no. no gilgameshing. not every problem is ours to fix, and we don't have the right to go around all 'better than thou' enforcing our concepts of how things should be on others, just cause we think that we could do better doesn't mean that we actually can, or even should
- Location
- USA
I was re reading the thread, in one of the updates (will edit the quote in later) Nadia said she knew some of who was Witchbombed in Tokyo. Since it sounds like there's a memory editor specifically targeting the Witchbombed, we could ask Nadia for a specific list and compare against who we think had been memory wiped.
It would be dangerous to as about the facts of life, but we might uncover some other pattern to the wiping.
Keep in mind that the memory editor could be another member of the Chiyoda group, and not necessarily the leader.
We should ask Kirika to make anti magic enchantments for anyone going to Tokyo to protect against mind wiping/esoteric attacks. Either that or get the Asunaro author to do a stronger mind protection spell.
Edit: Quote added
If we do get a list from Nadia, we should still approach all these groups as if they are not witchbombed, simply because we have so little information about the nature of the memory modification/suppression, which would of course affect the accuracy of the list.
Oh. This isn't something we can discuss over kyubeyphone, is it...
It would be dangerous to as about the facts of life, but we might uncover some other pattern to the wiping.
Keep in mind that the memory editor could be another member of the Chiyoda group, and not necessarily the leader.
We should ask Kirika to make anti magic enchantments for anyone going to Tokyo to protect against mind wiping/esoteric attacks. Either that or get the Asunaro author to do a stronger mind protection spell.
Edit: Quote added
If we do get a list from Nadia, we should still approach all these groups as if they are not witchbombed, simply because we have so little information about the nature of the memory modification/suppression, which would of course affect the accuracy of the list.
Oh. This isn't something we can discuss over kyubeyphone, is it...
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- Location
- Illinois
I do think we should counterargue this -- I really don't like letting it stand; it's an argument against everything we stand for, and countering it is easier than it seems.
The thing is, the manner in which a clear seed boosts a magical girl's power is strictly in endurance, with some knock-on impact on per-action power -- you can drain your gem 90% of the way for every attack if you can cleanse forever. But the fact is, employing the boost of a clear seed for damaging purposes requires a real intent to do so -- you aren't a walking nuke that's going to blow away the city if you slap somebody in a moment of anger. At the end of the day, "walking wmds" -- sure, but it only matters if somebody has intent to go on a goddamn rampage for an extended period of time, or if you think that a small group that previously couldn't have taken on a large number of opponents could do so if both sides were given clear seeds (a notion which is... unlikely). In either case... if he has reasonable suspicion that somebody in the city would like to go on a murderous rampage through Tokyo but doesn't have the endurance to do it, that's a bigger problem. If he worries that giving everyone clear seeds would tip the balance of power in a bad way, either he knows something really nasty he's not told us (whether about a group's powers or whatever else), or he's a fool for thinking that the power dynamic of a handful of girls against an army of them is somehow changed absent the more numerous side lacking some crucial powerset, or he knows something slightly less nasty that he's not told us, such as that somebody has a crucial powerset that nobody else has (teleportation would be the obvious one, but Homura fills this role for our group and constitutes exactly the sort of powerset that would suplex a power balance into the atmosphere given a clear seed).
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
atomic scale transcription would be better. if we did that we could make it similar to a computer file, and build a griefhax machine that can read the inscriptions and have a much higher fidelity recording of our experiences than just writen word
That's why they're mentioning the belligerent groups, because as far as they're concerned those are examples of who might want to rampage through Tokyo and only don't do it because they don't think they can win.
Also, endurance plus intent to rampage means prep time. Like how we'd just make unlimited Mami and Sayaka clones if we wanted to conquer this city, and nobody would notice until we were done. Even if we lost the damage would be astronomical. By the same token someone here might have a power that is actually kinda lame unless you get tons of magic and it becomes ridiculous. Like how cloning all by itself is not amazing but I just named a way you could conquer a country with it so long as Sabrina is standing near you.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We wouldn't do that because their clones are limited by multitasking ability, not just endurance.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
plan 'Unlimited Mami Works' forstalled yet again
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I think Terumi is the Empath, then.
Who didn't Terumi like? The Council? Or the North Tokyo Group?
Was rereading the previous update to see if I'd missed a physical description of Nakahara Kurenai, or see if one was added, and found grammar errors instead.
Just noticed on a rereading. Should be "your".
I think this should be three? We've only met three girls here. Haruki is a guy, and Chiaki Haruna is in class.
Should be "once-over" or "once over".
"remember her as"
Double "a".
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banjo2E
Has left the planet
- Location
- Mafia Town
Insofar as anti-mindwipe protocols are concerned, I've got a rough first draft: Take the privacy bubble, convert it into a film that coats one's entire body, then allow light and sound to pass through passively so we can still interact with others normally and nobody without Grief senses will notice anything unusual about us at all. We might need to allow air through as well, depending on how well we can keep our breathing steady even in the absence of usable air. The downside of letting air through is, of course, that it doesn't protect us from gaseous transmission vectors.
Or we make a purpose built trinket, rather than carefully trying to modify the privacy bubble into doing something it's not meant to do. We made it for privacy, now we need something for memories.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
sure, if you want to ping "WITCH" to every magical girl we come across, which probably isn't the best idea when we are here trying to do some diplomacy
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Mami: *Blushes intensely*
Yesssss, one of my posts made it into Sabrina's thoughts!
Not sure if Firn meant to put sepulchral here?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The privacy barrier is also made of witchy grief.