Kurenai is a talker! Even as she may put her own group in a good light, let's keep her talking. Much (but not everything) she tells us about the Council has to be drawn from facts, therefore full credit. That means, do not divert her attention with counter-offers or strongly focus on what we want. Instead, prompt her for more details and wide ranging data to get us oriented. We need the map first. She is presenting well towards us, empathy wish is an awesome power. Or she is actually somewhat aligned, but this is too early to tell. The mysterious fourth member remains a complicating detail, which may remain unresolved without making her map wrong.

We have now THREE reasons to visit, under personal use. Rissho, The Boyfriend, and ... buying some enchantment. If we can. They have a girl who employs native magic that hits things harder ?? And we have how much ammo, and a Kaijuu movie to make? This sounds like a deal we have to make! Asking her to fight from the safety of a week prior, enchanting at a comfy tent in Warehouse-kun isn't risking her life, so let me advance that we could ask this.

But not yet, wait an update. We seem to need a great deal of insight to save these girls without making them fight. My own preference is to keep out of the politics and do our own aspirations, but it seems they won't let us do that so easy. Therefore we need a minimum amount of politics done right.
Trading some pleasantries at this point might be well, such as the suggestion I put out to discuss "mortals and enchanting" with the Osaki girls. Should lead to good emotions? Letting them see us earnestly associate with the task of therapy for Magical Girls may be initially odd from their view, but will rapidly demonstrate our cred as "not another Demon Lord" trying to move into Tokyo.

Asking to sweep for Kyuubey nearby is a datapoint for us, a character demonstration for them, and a chance to notice any other magical effects if that is even an issue. Sabrina gets to be way more pro than other Magical Girls her age!
 
One possible explanation that I came up with is that our Grief control isn't a magical power at all, but rather just just a Wish effect. Our Wish gave us the ability to control Grief directly, rather than having a separate effect on the world and influencing our magical powers indirectly.

To test that hypothesis, I would like to see Sayaka try copying Homura. She also had an unusual Wish and she has no unique power, only a weapon.
it isn't because its a direct result from our wish. I know this because Sayaka successfuly copied the abilities of the Pleiades saints, especialy the ability to talk to animals, which was also the direct result of a wish
 
[X] Redshirt Army

I'm a bit worried about treading on toes, but we need this info. Anyways, Sayaka can pull us back if need be.

...What did I just type.
 
[X] Redshirt Army

I'm a bit worried about treading on toes, but we need this info. Anyways, Sayaka can pull us back if need be.

...What did I just type.
Awww. It isn't like Sayaka is in fight mode ATM. She actually has social skillz, just not at S rank. I'd like both to trust her to help here, and note that if we are being passively scanned, our two least symptomatic girls are on the stage.

What is the successful outcome of the meeting, for us? For them?
One goal is to make the Osaki team confident that we are safe to deal with. In a word, competent. Not doing the basics would read as abnormal, so a bit of probing is the better path IMHO. The other is to learn more about the girls voting to lock us out before we meet them. The "toes" we should not step on are "forcing an agenda" in the first hour we have met. Different stresses, entirely.

Wait until we send our Ojou power team to the official meeting.... that will be some fun times.

[X] Redshirt arm

also
[X] discreetly inquire as to who knows about the "facts of life" and whether it is public knowledge
In this scene, let me ask you to re-consider that wish?
Too many chances at least one of them knows little or nothing about the bombs. If we could signal that they are clear to test us, without doing so, that would fill my risk gauge.
The tradition here OOC asks that we treat this subject with debilitating caution.
One on one is easier to manage correctly. The worst risk is indirect transmission that activates after we are gone. If we messed up bad, at least having a chance to forcibly stop the spiral is better than dealing with a concluded disaster.
 
Does anyone know of a post or discussion which covers our knowledge/observations/speculations about soul gems and grief seeds? Or anything like the posts in the useful info tab?
 
It isn't complete, since I haven't gotten around to Parts 2 and 3 yet, but I made a pretty long listing of what we've observed about soul gems here: Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 5824

Thanks. I had some speculation about grief seeds, soul gems, and de-witching, but the whole soul gems-shatter on witch-out throws a wrench in my idea.
I may share it later because of some other speculation it led to, but thanks for pointing me to that.
 
Thanks. I had some speculation about grief seeds, soul gems, and de-witching, but the whole soul gems-shatter on witch-out throws a wrench in my idea.
I may share it later because of some other speculation it led to, but thanks for pointing me to that.

The main thing to understand is that barring Sabrina's powers, which are an affront to reality itself and should be treated as an outlier, grief has very clearly been shown to only "naturally" exist inside souls.

This makes perfect sense with a bit of thought - grief is, metaphysically, an emotion. Of course it can only exist inside of something capable of feeling emotions - which, in PMMM metaphysics, necessarily implies a soul.

So what, then, is a Witch's Barrier? Well, it's the inside of a soul. Literally. A witch's entire Barrier fulfills the same role as a Soul Gem or Grief Seed.

Side note: When we made Sabrina's Barrier, that was probably more or less us going inside our own Soul Gem. :V
 
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The main thing to understand is that barring Sabrina's powers, which are an affront to reality itself and should be treated as an outlier, grief has very clearly been shown to only "naturally" exist inside souls.

This makes perfect sense with a bit of thought - grief is, metaphysically, an emotion. Of course it can only exist inside of something capable of feeling emotions - which, in PMMM metaphysics, necessarily implies a soul.

So what, then, is a Witch's Barrier? Well, it's the inside of a soul. Literally. A witch's entire Barrier fulfills the same role as a Soul Gem or Grief Seed.

Side note: When we made Sabrina's Barrier, that was probably more or less us going inside our own Soul Gem. :V
that is fucked up and trippy, and also has interesting implication about magical girls hyperspace if we are correct about it being the precursor to the witches barrier
 
The main thing to understand is that barring Sabrina's powers, which are an affront to reality itself and should be treated as an outlier, grief has very clearly been shown to only "naturally" exist inside souls.

This makes perfect sense with a bit of thought - grief is, metaphysically, an emotion. Of course it can only exist inside of something capable of feeling emotions - which, in PMMM metaphysics, necessarily implies a soul.

So what, then, is a Witch's Barrier? Well, it's the inside of a soul. Literally. A witch's entire Barrier fulfills the same role as a Soul Gem or Grief Seed.

Side note: When we made Sabrina's Barrier, that was probably more or less us going inside our own Soul Gem. :V
that is fucked up and trippy, and also has interesting implication about magical girls hyperspace if we are correct about it being the precursor to the witches barrier

Am I posting an abundance of heresy? Not sure, but it seems I must write this down.

Does Hope also respond to Banach - Tarski process? It is an emotion, and has magical / physical representation.

Hmmm... We could advance towards success if we had super advanced workspaces. Not just for Sabrina with her Griefhax, but for any Magical Girl who has sophisticated Enchantment ability. We will need to have more helpers. So, a few postulates that might form a pathway?

If a Witch is using "the power of the emotion" from the astronomical Grief within the bounds of her Soul to create a "wish granting" setting...

If we could manifest around 1x10^5 the average amount of Hope normal to a human, as a total if not instantly...

If a Magical Girl could take that Hope into her four-space for storage...

Could she use the latent power of that hope to reach vastly superhuman functions within her fourspace?

Not everything that happens in a Barrier is confined by the radius of a Barrier... death and other events are conserved, despite occurring inside the reality marble of the Witch.

Could this be a bootstrap to let us run roughshod over entropy, at least at workbench / laboratory scale? Bringing a girl back from her Witch form is not favored by thermodynamics. Because Kyuubey says. Therefore, de-witching her in a Universe with constants more favorable to our liking should reduce the inputs required. Selecting a special pocket Universe in which to make that change is generally safer than trying to mod the Universe we expect to wake up in tomorrow. Then we just walk her out of the workshop, the same way we get dumped from a barrier when it breaks.

For that matter, if we discovered a non-living Grief sink, would this workspace bring it to full function? A Magical Girl is a suitable container for Grief, and so Grief is prone to move only in the entropy-favored direction when not inside such a container. But what about a container inside a container? Could a Magical Girl inside the fourspace of another Magical Girl either experience or use powers similar to ours while in the nested space?
 
Nova Prospekt pt. 21
You savour your coffee for a moment. It is pretty good, mellow and not too heavy but just enough to leave a lovely aftertaste... You blink, turning to Yuri.

"Miss Ito?" you ask curiously. "What kind of coffee is this?"

"Ah, they call it a blonde coffee on the menu?" Yuri tells you.

"... huh," you say.

"Is there something wrong?" Yuri asks.

"No, no, just a stray thought," you say, giving her a reassuring smile. You take another sip of your coffee. Hot, strong, blonde, and sweet. That is rather how you like it. You hum quietly, thinking over the situation.

Gerrymandering. Is that the right word for what this Toshimichi Akane does? Reverse gerrymandering, where people are shifted about instead of redrawing voter bloc lines to suit the ruling party? Maybe, maybe not. And you can't help the niggling worry of carrying capacity... hopefully Akane does it to ensure that groups can support themselves, but you worry.

Speaking of carrying capacity and Witches, you stretch out your senses.

Metis.

Agatha.

Brizo.

Kurenai, Terumi, and Yuri respectively. You tuck those sepulchral whispers, impressions, away to the back of your mind. The best way of ensuring that you aren't caught out by infiltrators, but it's rather morbid still.

"Do you have any more questions, Miss Vee?" Kurenai asks.

"Ah, yeah," you say, smiling brightly. "Sorry, I got distracted for a bit. Right. Uhh... First of all, why do people want to unseat Miss Toshimichi? Personal grievances or general authority issues or just wanting the power or something else?"

"All three? Each group has its reasons," Kurenai replies, shrugging. She frowns in thought, tugging on a loop of her hair. "I would say that they tend mostly towards personal grievances."

"Except the Meiji group," Yuri offers. "Fuck them."

"What's wrong with them?" Sayaka beats you to the punch, leaning forward with a curious look.

Yuri exchanges a look with Kurenai. "Honestly? No idea," Yuri says. "They're just..." She waves a hand, as if searching for the right word.

"Constantly, consistently belligerent," Kurenai supplies. "They barely abide by the peace in Tokyo, honestly." She shakes her head. "Nobody likes them, and I don't think anybody's looking forward to when they come up in the rotation again for hunting partner trade."

"... is it a recent thing?" you ask.

"Within... the last few months or so?" Kurenai says.

"Half a year, just about," Haruki says. He frowns and counts on his fingers for a moment before nodding decisively. "Just over half a year, actually. Six months."

"Anything happen six months ago?" Sayaka asks, stirring her milkshake idly with the straw. Which would have been your follow up question, anyway.

"I'm not sure," Kurenai admits. She glances to Yuri, Haruki, and Terumi. "Any idea?"

"Hm..." Haruki frowns, and shakes his head. "It would have been-"

"-two weeks after we started dating," Yuri says. "I came home in a mood, remember?"

"Yeah, you never really elaborated on it much," Haruki says. He frowns, and takes a sip of his coffee.

"I didn't, no, but that was... One of the Council meetings. I think?" Yuri frowns, rubbing her chin thoughtfully. "Miss Toshimichi pulled her aside at some point, and... I think she was ejected from the meeting. Sorry, it's been a while. Oh, Terumi?"

The tiny girl peers up through her silver fringe, smiling shyly, and gestures at Yuri. Japanese sign language, you recognise.

Could you please help me translate for the nice lady? she asks.

You wave a hand at them to catch their attention, and sign right back at Terumi, smiling.

No need, I understand you, you say.

Terumi visibly brightens, beaming at you. There was a lot of anger, she signs. The Meiji group.

"Aaagh, just because you can speak sign language doesn't mean everyone can," Sayaka grumbles, elbowing you in the side.

"If it makes you feel any better, I'm not very good at it either," Haruki says with a shrug.

"So I'll speak and sign at the same time," you say with a shrug, and continue in sign and out loud. So... there was a lot of anger with the Meiji group? Were you there?

"Wait, so both you and Miss Ito were there?" Sayaka asks. "I thought there was just one representative?"

"Terumi wasn't with our group at the time," Yuri offers. "She used to be North Tokyo, but her family moved. That's, uh, the Kita and Arakawa wards area, more or less."

"And we're not actually limited to sending just one representative," Kurenai adds, raising a finger. "I gather they decided it would be good to have Terumi's impression of the Council."

The girl in question nods vigorously. I didn't like them much, Terumi says. But I was there. There was a lot of anger and fear, and then Miss Toshimichi took her aside. They called the meeting in the first place, about the death of one of their members? And... I don't remember the rest. There was a lot of anger, a lot of fear and a lot of shouting.

"... But you don't remember what caused it in the first place?" Sayaka asks, listening to your diction of Terumi's speech. She directs the question to Terumi.

Terumi shakes her head. It was a long time ago.

"And before you ask, I never really got to listen in to most of it," Yuri says. "I got there at the tail end of things. Uni classes and all, you know? At that point it was all shouting and noise. Thankfully, no actual violence, but no, I don't remember, either."

Six months isn't that long ago, you can't help but think, but... Terumi is young. And utterly adorable, with the way she raises her mug with both hands to chug the hot chocolate. But it's still something to investigate.

"Ah, well. Thank you, Miss Ito, Miss Konno," you say. You sign your thanks to Terumi as well, and she gives you a shy smile in return. "So... on the topic of the Meiji group, are there... voting blocs or things like that? Are the... violent groups a coherent bloc?"

"Not particularly," Kurenai says, frowning. "The Council doesn't really... rule on as many topics as you seem to think? It mainly governs how our different territories are set up and hunting disputes - handling new magical girls is part of that."

"If you'll accept an outsider's opinion," Haruki adds. "It's not a government. It's a semi-democratic mediating body aimed at keeping the peace here in Tokyo, somewhere for magical girls to air their issues and to apply pressure to groups before they become problems."

"And it's worked so far," Yuri says with a shrug.

"So what specific kind of things does the Council handle?" you ask.

"Eh, as I said - hunting rights and border disputes," Kurenai says. She gestures with her palms, pushing them close to each other. "Tokyo is packed, and it seems like every week, a Witch escapes across a boundary to a neighbouring team's area. The Council makes sure this stays fair without raiding other groups."

"... y'know," Haruki says thoughtfully, scratching his chin. "I never really thought about it, but that's exactly it. The Council isn't a government - but many think that it is, or it should be. Kurenai, you've been to the Council more than Yuri. What do you think - do those groups want Toshimichi to intervene more?"

"Frequently," Kurenai agrees. "I... hm, no, and then again, yes. They try to wield the Council against other groups, which is pretty much a mark of the session turning to shit unless Miss Toshimichi puts her foot down. Which she doesn't do much."

"Which suggests that at least some of them want to take over the Council so that they'd be in the driving seat, as it were?" you ask, frowning. "Say, just curious - what are Miss Toshimichi's powers?"

"No one's actually sure," Kurenai says. "It's one of the big mysteries. We know it lets her have some pretty powerful surveillance, given how much she always knows, but she's actually been able to keep it a secret all this time. Which is impressive, if you think about it."

Sayaka catches your eye, quirking an eyebrow at you, and you shrug. You're not sure about that, either. The fact that nobody seems to quite remember details is a little odd, you agree, but now might not be the best time to probe it. Maybe if you could phrase it delicately.

Yuri snorts. She seems faintly amused. "We're actually in a fairly good spot here, I think," she says. "Hunting-wise, I mean. We've got a decent-sized territory and we're by the sea, so we don't get people poaching our Witches too much. And so we don't really need the Council to help us that much."

"Huh," you say. "Moving on... what do you actually do if the rules are broken by someone? Or what does the Council actually do?"

"Oh, generally the surrounding groups send a delegation, plus the Chiyoda group," Kurenai says. "Not much more needs to be done than that. Simply having twenty magical girls show up on your doorstep is... an experience in and of itself."

"Possibly even two experiences at once, all bundled up into one ultra-terrifying experience," Haruki says. "What? I'm just saying. That much power, in a tiny little package?"

"Behave," Yuri says, and grins. "Not like you complain about it normally."

Haruki shrugs, grin matching hers. Sayaka rolls her eyes, and you resist the urge to join her. You're probably just as bad with Mami.

Terumi waves to catch your attention, and starts signing at you.

"Never had to resort to fighting that you can remember, huh?" you say, echoing her words. "That's... actually really good to hear."

"No one really wants to start a war in Tokyo," Kurenai says. "Not even Meiji or Sumida."

"We like to joke the beer makes them all mad," Yuri says with a grin.

"Uhh." You blink. "The beer?"

"Asahi brewery headquarters!" she tells you. "Riiiight there in the middle of their place."

"Ah... OK," you say.

Yuri pouts at the failure of her joke.

"Soooo a visit to the Skytree's out of the question, I suppose?" Sayaka says.

"Oh, Miss Toshimichi's real big on letting passing magical girls, y'know, pass through," Yuri says. "Provided you announce your intentions ahead of time. Same with magical girls wanting to move around, generally speaking. Tokyo's a big city, but we can't really expect to, uh, not have to travel around. Imagine if we couldn't go to Ginza or something."

Ginza is... a big shopping district, as you recall.

"That makes sense," you agree.

"So that's all..." Sayaka holds her hands out, as if weighing things against each other. "So there's friction, and there's groups agitating for change, leadership, and benefits for themselves. But nothing's ever come of it, because all of you manage to police each other effectively?"

"Eh..." Kurenai's gaze flickers to Yuri and Terumi. Both shrug. "That does sound reasonably accurate, yes."

"Right, then," you say. "So, about my offer. I don't... look, again, it's offered freely. To everyone, and I don't actually demand anything. Helping people is what I'm here for, and I know I can do a lot of good."

"Not every group deserves it," Kurenai says calmly. "It's just that we can't decide which group."

"Every group deserves it," you snap before you can rein in your anger. You can feel Sayaka bridling, right beside you, and Terumi flinches back. Kurenai, on the other hand doesn't back down, meeting your gaze steadily.

"Logistics," Haruki says. "Everyone's running on constrained logistics, scarce resources - Grief Seeds. I... yes, I'm perfectly aware that Grief Seeds are important. But even assuming you could fairly distribute what you're offering to everyone, it means that any given group becomes walking WMDs."

"What do you plan now, Miss Vee?" Kurenai asks.

[] Ask to meet Chiyoda
[] Ask more questions...
- [] About specific groups?
[] Discuss this with...
- [] Sayaka (pull her aside/telepathy)
- [] Mami
- [] Homura
- [] Madoka, Hitomi
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)


=====​

Aiming for a Thursday update, and aiming to finish this section of talking here in one or two updates!
 
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Hot, strong, blonde, and sweet. That is rather how you like it.

This is true.

"So I'll speak and sign at the same time," you say with a shrug, and continue in sign and out loud.

Multitasking, ho!

"Logistics," Haruki says. "Everyone's running on constrained logistics, scarce resources - Grief Seeds. I... yes, I'm perfectly aware that Grief Seeds are important. But even assuming you could fairly distribute what you're offering to everyone, it means that any given group becomes walking WMDs."

Hm. Optimally, we would want to visit each faction individually; find out their viewpoints, their group dynamics, compare and contrast with what other groups. In addition, a meeting with the convened Council is necessary. That'd be a major investment, though, and we have so much on our plate already. Navigating Tokyo is going to take at least a few dedicated days...

Ugh. I'm tempted more and more to follow Mom's advice and just shoot everyone involved, but, well. Everyone deserves a chance.
 
Yeah, it sounds like there's memory modification of some kind going around. Best not to get cocky and assume we're immune - maybe set up some means of recording what happens around us for later review?

We're crazy good at multitasking, so we could probably write a transcript of what we see live onto a medium kept in our storage space.

Other than that, there's a lot of details in this update to unpack, and I'll be updating the Tokyo Politics chart with the relevant info.
 
On top of my head, we could do a quick experiment to see if our grief control could accurately write what we sense and experience in real-time? Like a magical stenographer or something, and have the actual writing happen at a grief blob at the edge of our range. Edit: Like what Redshirt said.

Also Terumi finding out Sabrina can sign is adorbs. It might not seem much, but I've seen videos and read stories about deaf and/or mute kids really brightening up when finding an adult who can sign with them.
 
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I have copied down this entire update and saved it somewhere else. Just in case.

BEWARE THE MINDWIPING! :V

But yeah this update was...alot. Now we have this Meiji group to ponder, whatever the heck this Toshimichi can do, aaaand that big bomb of a question...
 
yeah, from what I can disern it seems like when the witch bomb drops and people start freaking out like mami did once upon a never, Akane has a person on hand who can blank memories of the incident in order to keep things under control
and keeping a record is good, although I don't feel comfortable having it encoded on grief since it is so easily manipulatable by us, who's to say whatever blanks minds won't somehow backflow and modify the record on the grief
saving every page on the story posts in the way back machine to be careful
 
and keeping a record is good, although I don't feel comfortable having it encoded on grief since it is so easily manipulatable by us, who's to say whatever blanks minds won't somehow backflow and modify the record on the grief

Well, we have a katana, an AR-15, and a fuckton of air in hammerspace we aren't using. Engrave our records onto those, maybe? (Atomic scale for maximum usage of space.)
 
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