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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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This "last after Sabrina's time" thing is bugging me. Perfect is the enemy of good enough, and in the kind of story we're in, planning for your own death is kind of a Bad Idea anyway.
 
Aranfan said:
Is it really so wrong to want to leave a lasting legacy?
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It is if you don't even have a temporary legacy yet. Sabrina's time isn't going to be up in a week. We should be focusing on what's prompt, possible, and practical, then once that's done we can work on the slow, enduring, less practical, and potentially impossible.
 
  • I'd rather my lasting legacy be me, thank you very much. The idea of a "lasting legacy" feels to me like a consolation prize, brandished in an insultingly pathetic attempt to distract me from one of the few things that I cannot tolerate.
  • Perfect is the enemy of good enough. Why does our very first attempt also have to be the very last attempt? We're allowed to make two tries at it. Especially if we can get a stopgap in place so we can stop being distracted by people dying all the time and concentrate on the long-term engineering. Iterating is a fundamental piece of engineering practice; so many good products never got off the ground because they overreached on their first version and never managed to launch, when they could've easily started with something smaller and worked their way up.
  • We need to control the narrative. In a setting where symbolism and belief are power, walking around talking about dying is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Especially when your story is that of the setting-breaker and the setting involves people dying: we must utterly reject the narrative the universe is attempting to force on us. Every time we talk about Sabrina dying as if it's something that we need to worry about, we hand our enemy a little bit more power over us.
  • Dedolere feeds off of our fatalism. Quit throwing her treats.
  • Every single time the topic is brought up, it's "we need to make it permanent because we're going to die". It lends an oppressive, stifling atmosphere that I just don't want to deal with.
  • How would Mami react if she heard you talking like that? Or Homura? Or Madoka? Or Sayaka? Hell, even Kirika and Oriko? No. Just... no.
  • "Because we won't be around forever" is inherently... nihilistic, for lack of a better term. Our story is about us, us and our friends. Everything I've been seeing and saying about the science and solutions in this quest is that they're about the people. I don't think that we're going to be able to just... crap out something that doesn't depend on us. It's too sterile, too divorced from our story. We're going to have to drive this to its conclusion.
 
I think giving the idea that a central meguca government can be formed and can work would be a really good legacy on it's own; Allowing the girls to have some time to ponder their problems, not to mention the ability for a good generation of girls to grow to maturity before witching, could have lasting ripples entirely on it's own and be a lasting, historic positive on every meguca on the planet.

Imagine if the Nile, fertile crescent, Indus river valley, none of them had ever tried agriculture. Imagine that for a second. The entire planet trapped indefinitely in a hunter-gatherer state. No wheel. No simple machines. No architecture. Indefinitely. Awaiting the intervention of aliens who may never come, and may not be benevolent if they do. Helpless to determine their own fate beyond "what do I hunt tomorrow and which woman is least likely to die in childbirth?", and helpless to change nature or shape the face of the planet.

Now imagine being sent there, and being afraid that if you plant crops, you'll be the only one able to farm them. Worried that spreading them might start wars between the two neighboring tribes. It's rather silly, isn't it?

It's not a perfect metaphor - Nobody else can intrinsically move grief. But even so it'll give impetus and a structure for the girls to latch onto, even after we die, and that will give them a chance to save themselves. And it'll let girls know it can be done, and maybe they can come up with some workaround.
 
Okay what the fuck is this argument? Why are we creating itemized lists about crap that's really far in the future? Can we maybe chill and focus on the now? Figure out a few votes for our next action? Not be trying to wrangle positions about the hypothetical end of this quest or something?

Please? Like... I find these arguments really kinda distressing, and usually kinda unproductive...
 
Spectral Waltz said:
Okay what the fuck is this argument? Why are we creating itemized lists about crap that's really far in the future? Can we maybe chill and focus on the now? Figure out a few votes for our next action? Not be trying to wrangle positions about the hypothetical end of this quest or something?

Please? Like... I find these arguments really kinda distressing, and usually kinda unproductive...
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I agree! Instead of wasting time trying to manufacture a grief manipulation enchantment that'd instantly solve grief scarcity forever for every magical girl on the planet, maybe we can just take baby steps. For example, instead of jumping for an ultimate solution that provided zero incremental value when it failed at the cost of exactly the stuff that this quest is meant to be about, we could snuggle with Mami a bit more and try some ribbon stuff. That might be productive.

edit: I think I'm getting too angry. Probably because I haven't eaten anything today. I should probably go fix that.
 
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Next two items in the SCIENCE! list as far as I know are Grief Control Enchantments (no intermediaries) and Comboing powers with Mami for Grief Control outside our radius.

Enchantment to be done whenever we've got hours of time sitting down, so most like while Mami does homework. Grief Ribbons to be tried in a controlled enviroment, with plenty of space, so likely next time we visit the dumpsters.

Both might fail.

Do we have anything else we're waiting to SCIENCE!?

Karnewarrior said:
[X] Use ribbons to tie yourself to Mami
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No voting yet.

[Q] Make fence puns.
-[Q] "I'm on the fence about it." "Hmm! Fency!" "I take ofence to that." "Sayaka's an expert at fencing."
 
Vebyast said:
I agree! Instead of wasting time trying to manufacture a grief manipulation enchantment that'd instantly solve grief scarcity forever for every magical girl on the planet, maybe we can just take baby steps. For example, instead of jumping for an ultimate solution that provided zero incremental value when it failed at the cost of exactly the stuff that this quest is meant to be about, we could snuggle with Mami a bit more and try some ribbon stuff. That might be productive.

edit: I think I'm getting too angry. Probably because I haven't eaten anything today. I should probably go fix that.
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For the future, I'd appreciate if you just addressed my argument in good faith rather then you jumping on the least relevant sentence in my entire post. I have absolutely zero reason to believe Sabrina is dying anytime soon, if at all. I regret posting that line entirely. Anyway I have nothing against you wanting to try ribbon stuff with Mami. I don't think there's a single person here that's against it. If you want to try it in the not too distant future, by all means have at it. If nothing else, I think it would be a great idea socially. What I DON'T appreciate is you deriding the players for wanting to achieve one of our core goals using a method that at least seemed plausible at the time, and it just happened to not work even though it could've just as easily went the other way. Heck we were given a potential lead as to why it didn't work and what we can do to improve upon our efforts. The vote was perfectly valid. We didn't waste our time.
 
By the way, we've talked jack about our plans for the next update. :V

What are we doing?

We will offer a Clear Seed, of that I'm sure. I'm also pretty sure we will offer one to the Sendai Group Rin, and some of the Tohoku girls might not quite like that. Haru, particularly, seems to be the most vocally angry of the group. Probably nothing, but we may want to ask how the group is dealing with everything that's happened.

On a hopefully more cheerful note, we can ask if their lives are getting better now. Ask if they need help?

Probably ask if any of Rin's group's caused any trouble.

Of course, we need to introduce Nadia, and she'll likely want the details about the conflict directly from the Tohoku girls. So we tactically cuddle Mami while being marginalized from the chat.

By the way, challenge Chouko to a flying race. Please. For fun.

So, idea:

[ ] Be normal NiceBrina.
[ ] Introduce Nadia if Mami nor Nadia beat you to it.
[ ] Inquire about the Tohoku group's general wellbeing; whether there's been any further trouble with Rin's group; how are they handling the new relative freedom; whether they need help with anything; picked up any new hobbies?
[ ] Cuddle the Mami as appropriate.
[ ] Tell the Tohoku group that instead of the Grief Seed refresh thing you had agreed on, they will take a Clear Seed instead, which should last them a few decades.
-[ ] "I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."
[ ] As with the Ishinomaki group, ask if everyone will like to hang out some time, for fun. Challenge Chouko to a flying race.
 
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UbeOne said:
Have we done an enchantment without the use of grief? Just a natural/native enchantment like what Kirika did before?
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No, we never have. We keep trying to use a Grief-construct to do it.

Onmur said:
I figure we can finally try making a Grief Control Enchantment while she's working...
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Not Grief Control. That's not an ability that we're comfortable sharing. Just something that specifically cleanses soul gems.

Random832 said:
You know, just like how the design of the power grid requires all electrical generation to be at a single fixed central location.
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That fixed location does not generally include people who have to spend their entire lives plugged into the grid to make it function.
 
Muramasa said:
For the future, I'd appreciate if you just addressed my argument in good faith rather then you jumping on the least relevant sentence in my entire post. I have absolutely zero reason to believe Sabrina is dying anytime soon, if at all. I regret posting that line entirely. Anyway I have nothing against you wanting to try ribbon stuff with Mami. I don't think there's a single person here that's against it. If you want to try it in the not too distant future, by all means have at it. If nothing else, I think it would be a great idea socially. What I DON'T appreciate is you deriding the players for wanting to achieve one of our core goals using a method that at least seemed plausible at the time, and it just happened to not work even though it could've just as easily went the other way. Heck we were given a potential lead as to why it didn't work and what we can do to improve upon our efforts. The vote was perfectly valid. We didn't waste our time.
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Sorry. I've been in a bad mood today, the whole "let's just lay down and die happily" thing is a major hot-button topic for me, and there absolutely are people that are actively against ribbon science. If you want, I can go back and find quotes arguing that extending our grief manipulation range is useless because "what happens if we die". It wouldn't even be hard; someone says it every single time this topic comes up.

Even if it wasn't a complete waste of time, this was absolutely the wrong time to do it. We didn't talk to Nadia or Sayaka at all and I find that inexcusable. Nadia going in the same direction as us was about as direct a message as Firn could give us that he wanted us to talk to her more. If we're around other people, we should be doing social things with them. Save things we can do on our own - particular things that involve trancing out - for when we aren't doing it at the cost of talking to friends.
Onmur said:
[ ] Be normal NiceBrina.
[ ] Introduce Nadia if Mami nor Nadia beat you to it.
[ ] Inquire about the Tohoku group's general wellbeing; whether there's been any further trouble with Rin's group; how are they handling the new relative freedom; whether they need help with anything; picked up any new hobbies?
[ ] Cuddle the Mami as appropriate.
[ ] As with the Ishinomaki group, ask if everyone will like to hang out some time, for fun. Challenge Chouko to a flying race.
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Need to offer clear seeds.

To be absolutely certain: Rin's group would be Sendai?
 
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The Narrator said:
Not Grief Control. That's not an ability that we're comfortable sharing. Just something that specifically cleanses soul gems.
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It's still the first step we need to take in learning Enchantment.

Vebyast said:
Need to offer clear seeds.

To be absolutely certain: Rin's group would be Sendai?
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Right, and yes. I say "Rin's group" because they're both technically Sendai groups.

Onmur said:
[ ] Be normal NiceBrina.
[ ] Introduce Nadia if Mami nor Nadia beat you to it.
[ ] Inquire about the Tohoku group's general wellbeing; whether there's been any further trouble with Rin's group; how are they handling the new relative freedom; whether they need help with anything; picked up any new hobbies?
[ ] Cuddle the Mami as appropriate.
[ ] Tell the Tohoku group that instead of the Grief Seed refresh thing you had agreed on, they will take a Clear Seed instead, which should last them a few decades.
-[Q] "I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."
[ ] As with the Ishinomaki group, ask if everyone will like to hang out some time, for fun. Challenge Chouko to a flying race.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
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Muramasa said:
For the future, I'd appreciate if you just addressed my argument in good faith rather then you jumping on the least relevant sentence in my entire post. I have absolutely zero reason to believe Sabrina is dying anytime soon, if at all. I regret posting that line entirely. Anyway I have nothing against you wanting to try ribbon stuff with Mami. I don't think there's a single person here that's against it. If you want to try it in the not too distant future, by all means have at it. If nothing else, I think it would be a great idea socially. What I DON'T appreciate is you deriding the players for wanting to achieve one of our core goals using a method that at least seemed plausible at the time, and it just happened to not work even though it could've just as easily went the other way. Heck we were given a potential lead as to why it didn't work and what we can do to improve upon our efforts. The vote was perfectly valid. We didn't waste our time.
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Be nice, Kyouko - Veb's stepped back. But you too, @Vebyast, be nice.
 
[ ] Be normal NiceBrina.

Brina is nice and this group likes Brina. No need to be anything but NormalBrina here. ;)

[ ] Introduce Sayaka and Nadia to the Tohoku group.
[ ] Idle chat. Ask the Tohoku girls how they're doing, and whether there's been any further problems.

Already doubting whether we should ask the Tohokus if they need help with anything. They might feel in debt with us as it is.

[ ] Cuddle the Mami whenever appropriate.
[ ] Offer the Tohoku group a Clear Seed. Explain. Tell them you're also offering one to Rin, and every group you can reach. Hopefully, it'll be the end of Grief Seed scarcity.

We should tell them straight up that we're offering a Clear Seed to Rin's group, and hopefully they *coughHarucough* won't take that badly, specially if put in context of avoiding any future extortion rackets.

-[Q] "I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."

Memes.

[ ] As with the Ishinomaki group, ask if everyone would like to hang out some time, for fun. Challenge Chouko to a flying race.
 
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