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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
-[X] Does she think Sayaka would be happy to finish healing Kyousuke on her own? It might be callous, but...
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I think it's a pretty safe bet that Sayaka wants to heal him herself; even if she doesn't, there's nothing callous about giving her the option.
-[X] Tell her you want to get back to Oriko at some point today. Want to try and solve whatever is going on with her before Kirika goes crazy; Oriko being disconnected, she's basically a corpse right now, and Kirika's mental state realies pretty heaviliy on Oriko, so... You'll lose sleep tonight, if need be, but you don't want to put this off for long.
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This is definitely a needlessly poor way to spin it. I think we can pretty much discount the possibility that Kirika's going crazy, and it doesn't seem likely that she'll spiral any time soon. The reasons we should get back soon are, in no particular order -
- We promised them we'd be back as soon as we could, not 'when we stop thinking of other shit we could be doing'. Our word's only as good as it proved to be last time, simple as.
- They're our friends, this is going to hit them both hard, and it's going to get worse the longer it drags on. (Aside from the emotional effects, the longer we wait, the corpse-ier Oriko's going to be when she wakes up. That's ... probably going to suck).
- They're assets. We have relied, and will rely again, on their trust. Our relationship with them wants to be as bulletproof as we can make it. The knowledge that that they can rely on us to act in their best interests is valuable.
- Oriko being out of action deprives us of our first, best line of defense. We, and everyone we care about, are at greater risk just because we can't get any advance warning of random bad things happening. This'd also be an unparalleled opportunity for an informed opponent (like, maybe feathers) to move against us without the possibility of interference. The longer she's out, the longer we're vulnerable.
 
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I don't really get it, but OK?

[X] To Kyouko:
-[X] I want to hang out a bit, check up on Yuma. And you. Talk about life, Grief, and...
-[X] There's a project I'm working on, trying to improve the lives of Magical Girls everywhere. I need to you to see it, it's kind of a 'see it to believe it' sort of thing; I think you'll find it very useful.
-[X] There's a catch, though, but I think you'll like it.
[X] To Mami:
-[X] Ask her what she's planning to do today, besides dinner with everybody.
-[X] Tell her you talked with Masami; she and her girlfriend agreed to look after Ono. So that's a weight off your mind.
-[X] Tell her you've got a problem. You promised to try and solve Oriko's issue, and that might require a lot of time. Oriko's disconnected right now, so basically a corpse, and that's hell on Kirika. You don't want to leave them hanging like that.
-[X] ... Does she think Sayaka would be happy to finish healing Kyousuke on her own? Don't want to bail out on her, but you need time...
-[X] If need be, you could stand to lose sleep tonight. Just once, it should be fine.
 
Ugolino said:
...No, it really doesn't since we're just asking
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And if she agrees? Are then gonna go ask Mami and Masami if they're OK with it?

We're basically stepping on their toes, but worse, since we've just got Masami to accept to help with Ono, and Kyouko is a huge sore spot for Mami.

Even if it's just Sayaka, it's still bad. Mami's gonna feel hard-pressed to accept having Kyouko involved, whether she wants to or not, simply because it's us asking, nevermind if we go ahead and get confirmation from Kyouko beforehand.
 
defenestrator said:
What's the catch? And I think Kyoko would want to know what that is even just by telepathy before agreeing with anything.

Still,
[X] Onmura
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Don't change my name. :(

:p

The catch is that we don't really know how safe this is. It's barely been tested at all, and the only word we've got that it's safe comes from Oriko, so...

"Feh. Knew it was too good to be true," Masami mutters.
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She'd be helping us confirm that it's safe.
 
Onmur said:
And if she agrees? Are then gonna go ask Mami and Masami if they're OK with it?

We're basically stepping on their toes, but worse, since we've just got Masami to accept to help with Ono, and Kyouko is a huge sore spot for Mami.

Even if it's just Sayaka, it's still bad. Mami's gonna feel hard-pressed to accept having Kyouko involved, whether she wants to or not, simply because it's us asking, nevermind if we go ahead and get confirmation from Kyouko beforehand.
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Yes, this is just sounding Kyoko out. We don't need Mami's permission for that.

Masami is irrelevant- we're no longer asking about Ono training in my vote and I don't see the problem even if it was.

Mami does not hate Kyoko, and we'd presumably let her know tactfully if Kyoko did say she would go for it hypothetically. In this timeline she has a somewhat better view of her, and mostly just regrets how things went.

We really don't need Mami's permission to do everything, least of all ask if Kyoko'd be interesting in something. This is not a reason not to go for it at all, and that's before getting into the strangeness that is how that vote handles the Mami conversation.

We're shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't take this opportunity to set up closer links between Kyoko and everyone else. Especially because we've been too busy to do it a lot of the time.

We have an opportunity so WHY would we possibly want to waste it on a vote that effectively does nothing at all? Those votes are basically "just talk to people without saying anything". Playing it safe and not actually making any progress.

Added in a line to make it clear that yes this is a hypothetical to avoid further objections to stepping on Mami's toes.


[x]...I kind of just want to drop in, if that's okay. Head over if she gives you the go-ahead. And I was wondering...Would you be interested in a possible job? Hypothetically speaking?
[x]If Kyoko asks for details, tell her it'd involve sparring with a new magical girl sometime to help her get better. Just...showing them the ropes, you know? You're good with that spear of yours. Really good, and she could probably use your help. I could pay with more grief seeds later- and by making clear seeds right now
-[x]If she presses even more, explain that she's one of your friends- Sayaka Miki. We think you two might get on like a house on fire.
-[x]And...we kind of just wanted to hang out for a bit. To talk.
-[x]Ask about Yuma.
[x]If she goes for it, thank her and talk to Mami on the way about school, how she's feeling/how things are going, and our plans for for the rest of today. Gently remind her about Oriko if it seems like her plans mean she won't get healed. That, or talk about the picnic.
[x]Check up on Kirika too on the way. Make sure she's okay.
 
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FlatlineAskari said:
I feel obliged to point out that she isn't sure this is a good idea, either. :V
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*Fold hands*

No matter who loses, we win.

Ugolino said:
This is not a problem and I am baffled by why you think Mami objecting would be one here.
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That's not the problem.

Mami is an a horrible state of mind. The fact she can tell us she 'doesn't want to argue with us', is great, but she's still fragile. We basically can't ask her anything without her feeling disproportionally pressured into agreeing.

I don't want there to be any more pressure than there has to be when we ask her.
 
Onmur said:
*Fold hands*

No matter who loses, we win.


That's not the problem.

Mami is an a horrible state of mind. The fact she can tell us she 'doesn't want to argue with us', is great, but she's still fragile. We basically can't ask her anything without her feeling disproportionally pressured into agreeing.

I don't want there to be any more pressure than there has to be when we ask her.
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Look, there's not pressuring Mami- which is great- and then there's letting that terror stop us from doing actually useful things and asking questions of people that Mami'd never even know about. This is the latter.

Effectively, you're letting fear for Mami's mental state sabotage a chance to build social links and get Kyoko on-side when it's entirely possible for us to ask in such a way that isn't pressuring her. Remember, this is just GROUNDWORK for that training trip.
 
Ugolino said:
Look, there's not pressuring Mami- which is great- and then there's letting that terror stop us from doing actually useful things and asking questions of people that Mami'd never even know about. This is the latter.

Effectively, you're letting fear for Mami's mental state sabotage a chance to build social links and get Kyoko on-side when it's entirely possible for us to ask in such a way that isn't pressuring her. Remember, this is just GROUNDWORK for that training trip.
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What's the reason we have to do that now?

The advantage of asking Kyouko, then Mami, rather than Mami, then Kyouko?
 
Onmur said:
What's the reason we have to do that now?

The advantage of asking Kyouko, then Mami, rather than Mami, then Kyouko?
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Because we're here and this kind of thing isn't just going to do itself. We keep stalling on things, let's not do that AGAIN for no real reason. What's the point of talking to her and going there if we just make it filler?

Groundwork. It's a thing.

Basically...your vote...it doesn't actually say much to Kyoko. It hits Mami over the head with the Oriko thing and basically guilts her into agreeing rather than gently reminding her and has us describe ourselves as callous for some reason. Maybe that's there for characterization? Interesting if so, and not entirely OOC but I don't really agree with doing that atm.

Also the Sayaka thing is best handled talking to Sayaka herself, maybe with Mami there, rather than with Mami right now.

Mostly though...it's a vote that I think doesn't actually have us do anything and I kind of really dislike that voting style without a very good reason for it. Which we don't have. We haven't done anything vital by the end of it that we hadn't done at the start.

EDIT: Sorry if I got a bit heated. Votes for inaction are kinda a berserk button...
 
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Ugolino said:
Because we're here and this kind of thing isn't just going to do itself. We keep stalling on things, let's not do that AGAIN for no real reason. I don't like stalling on things. What's the point of talking to her and going there if we just make it filler?

Groundwork. It's a thing.

Basically...your vote...it doesn't actually say anything to Kyoko. It hits Mami over the head with the Oriko thing and basically guilts her into agreeing rather than gently reminding her and has us describe ourself as callous for some reason. (Also the Sayaka thing is best handled talking to Sayaka herself there rather than with Mami right now.)

Mostly though...it's a vote that doesn't actually have us do anything and I kind of really dislike that voting style without a very good reason for it. Which we don't have. We haven't done anything vital by the end of it that we hadn't done at the start.
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We just need to get Kyouko to agree to let us visit and get talking with Mami. We don't need to do anything vital right this vote, nor should we try to.

Once Kyouko agrees to have us visit, we can ask Mami what she thinks about our 'Kyouko sergeant' idea, and present it to Kyouko later when when we're there in Kasamino.

We don't lose any time whatsoever.
 
Onmur said:
We just need to get Kyouko to agree to let us visit and get talking with Mami. We don't need to do anything vital right this vote, nor should we try to.

Once Kyouko agrees to have us visit, we can ask Mami what she thinks about our 'Kyouko sergeant' idea, and present it to Kyouko later when when we're there in Kasamino.

We don't lose any time whatsoever.
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By your reasoning a few posts above, asking Mami about it preemptively is a bad idea since she'd just agree to it. There's no reason to delay on sounding Kyoko out on our own initiative right now, making it clear that this is just a hypothetical if we need to, and seeing if Mami thinks its a good idea at some point later. Preferably when she's in a better state.

Either way, your vote doesn't actually do what you suggested there. It just loses the idea entirely.
 
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[X] Onmur

Because I basically agree that it works us towards having Mami as a partner, instead of being subservient to us. Asking her advice and showing that we value that advice before acting on things is a step towards building her back up to a confident individual that can more proactively help us and share the burden of all our responsibilities without us worrying all the time that she will break. I think thats one of the most important things we can do. We have so little time, and having someone we can trust implicitly and we can effectively delegate tasks to and trust their judgment enough to delegate further is an invaluable goal. I also don't see how changing the order in which we talk to the two of them loses that much time.
 
sopchoppy said:
[X] Onmur

Because I basically agree that it works us towards having Mami as a partner, instead of being subservient to us. Asking her advice and showing that we value that advice before acting on things is a step towards building her back up to a confident individual that can more proactively help us and share the burden of all our responsibilities without us worrying all the time that she will break. I think thats one of the most important things we can do. We have so little time, and having someone we can trust implicitly and we can effectively delegate tasks to and trust their judgment enough to delegate further is an invaluable goal. I also don't see how changing the order in which we talk to the two of them loses that much time.
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Again, sounding someone out is not something that consulting with Mami would help with at all and just dropping this on Mami in a hurry is basically pressuring her to say yes.

Also, the rest of the vote's interactions with Mami are...different, to put it mildly.

As in we describe ourselves as callous and basically try and guilt Mami into going to heal Oriko ASAP. I don't think that's helpful for Mami, or us. Better to actually just remind her that Oriko still needs healing today the way some of the other votes do.
 
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Onmur said:
-[X] Tell her you've got a problem. You promised to try and solve Oriko's issue, and that might require a lot of time. Oriko's disconnected right now, so basically a corpse, and that's hell on Kirika. You don't want to leave them hanging like that.
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Ugolino said:
As in we describe ourselves as callous and basically try and guilt Mami into going to heal Oriko ASAP. I don't think that's helpful for Mami, or us. Better to actually just remind her that Oriko still needs healing today the way some of the other votes do.
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You're right about this part, I don't like anything that hints at guilt or obligation on Mami's part. Maybe change it to something like

Tell her you've gotta a problem, you promised to try and solve Oriko's issue and that might take a lot of time. Does she have any ideas she think would help?
 
sopchoppy said:
You're right about this part, I don't like anything that hints at guilt or obligation on Mami's part. Maybe change it to something like

Tell her you've gotta a problem, you promised to try and solve Oriko's issue and that might take a lot of time. Does she have any ideas she think would help?
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Or we could just remind her that we need to deal with Oriko today when we're planning our day out with her without the guilt trip...
 
Ugolino said:
Or we could just remind her that Oriko exists when we're planning without the guilt trip...
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sopchoppy said:
You're right about this part, I don't like anything that hints at guilt or obligation on Mami's part. Maybe change it to something like

Tell her you've gotta a problem, you promised to try and solve Oriko's issue and that might take a lot of time. Does she have any ideas she think would help?
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But ... there isn't any guilt trip. It doesn't mention her at all. It mentions that we, as in Sabrina, have a pressing obligation, because we do.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
But ... there isn't any guilt trip. It doesn't mention her at all. It mentions that we, as in Sabrina, have a pressing obligation, because we do.
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Uhhh, no.

Tell her you've got a problem. You promised to try and solve Oriko's issue, and that might require a lot of time. Oriko's disconnected right now, so basically a corpse, and that's hell on Kirika. You don't want to leave them hanging like that.
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Considering how much Mami was demonstrably looking forward to a quiet evening and dinner, and said as much, how much do you think rubbing in that she wanted to put her peace of mind over Kirika going through hell is going to help, as opposed to just reminding her that we need to help Oriko sometime today?

This really, really isn't the best way to put the idea of needing to help Oriko.
 
Ugolino said:
Uhhh, no.

Considering how much Mami was demonstrably looking forward to a quiet evening and dinner, and said as much, how much do you think rubbing in that she wanted to put her peace of mind over Kirika going through hell is going to help, as opposed to just reminding her that we need to help Oriko sometime today?

This really, really isn't the best way to put the idea of needing to help Oriko.
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This is relevant, important information. She is unaware of the urgency of this matter.
 
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