Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[Ugolino]

This is relevant, important information. She is unaware of the urgency of this matter.

Click to shrink...

...Yeah, no, I disagree that stressing that Oriko's dying will get her to do anything that reminding her we need to help Oriko today wouldn't. Either way she's getting healed and either way it's not happening for a good while- and it's pointless to throw everyone else under the bus just to heal her a hour or two faster. Giving Mami something to stress over just upsets her for relatively little or no gain that just neutrally reminding her Oriko needs our help wouldn't do anyway.

Also, she's stable. Kirika's unhappy but stable. We're doing it today but the whole point of putting her on ice was to avoid this "OH NO WE NEED TO RUSH BACK" so we could get other things done. Let's get other things done.

 

[FlatlineAskari]

...Yeah, no, I disagree that stressing that Oriko's dying will get her to do anything that reminding her we need to help Oriko today wouldn't.

Click to shrink...

She doesn't know that Oriko's disconnected.

Also, she's stable. Kirika's unhappy but stable. We're doing it today but the whole point of putting her on ice was to avoid this "OH NO WE NEED TO RUSH BACK" so we could get other things done. Let's get other things done.

Click to shrink...

It was because we were out of alternatives. We promised that it would be for as little time as possible. You said that it was to achieve specific short-term objectives, as opposed to a list of ... random stuff.

 

[Ugolino]

She doesn't know that Oriko's disconnected.

It was because we were out of alternatives. We promised that it would be for as little time as possible. You said that it was to achieve specific short-term objectives, as opposed to a list of ... random stuff.

Click to shrink...

Dropping all that on her in the middle of the day doesn't help anyone, least of all Kirika and Oriko. It's just voting to make Mami miserable for...reasons?

She'd probably agree to go as soon as we remind her anyway. Telling her that someone's suffering for every moment of peace and quiet she has in the afternoon...that just seems pointlessly cruel. Callous, even.

Yeah, no, we have plenty of objectives right now. Sayaka training and basically recruiting her as an equal/seeing if she's doing okay. Madoka talk with pushing her to support Sayaka. Actually doing something with Kyoko, though the other vote has us do absolutely nothing of value with that trip for some reason. Handling Ono if that goes poorly.

I really don't think failing to make good use of the Kyoko trip helps anyone at all. Including Buckethat.

 

[Dragontrapper]

So does anyone in the hivemind know anything about money laundering?

"To clean-- No. Wash-- Here it is. To conceal the source of money, as by channeling it through an intermediary."
"That-- That doesn't really help us, Sabrina."
"I can't believe what a bunch of nerds we are. We're looking up money laundering in a dictionary."

Click to shrink...

OH! I know this too - what you want to do is start some churches or something, and then you can route your money through them by making them look like donations.

 

[FlatlineAskari]

Dropping all that on her in the middle of the day doesn't help anyone, least of all Kirika and Oriko. It's just voting to make Mami miserable for...reasons?

Click to shrink...

So that she can plan on the basis that we've got one ally slowly cooling and another having to deal with that, and not put more unimportant stuff before that. This isn't non-obvious.

 

[Ugolino]

So that she can plan on the basis that we've got one ally slowly cooling and another having to deal with that, and not put more unimportant stuff before that. This isn't non-obvious.

Click to shrink...

...Dude, we just need to remind her that Oriko needs help today. She trusts our judgement. There's no need to gleefully tell her the gory details like this when it's actually impossible for her to go help for hours yet.

It's pointless and harmful and doesn't actually help anyone at all.

 

[FlatlineAskari]

...Dude, we just need to remind her that Oriko needs help today. She trusts our judgement. There's no need to gleefully tell her the gory details like this. It's pointless and harmful.

Click to shrink...

'Today' is failing to live up to what we told them. It's what you shifted the goalposts to, after we made the deal. She needs to have some idea of the state they're actually in to prioritize this shit accordingly.

 

[sopchoppy]

Suggest a midnight picnic under the stars after dealing with Oriko ?

 

[Ugolino]

'Today' is failing to live up to what we told them. It's what you shifted the goalposts to, after we made the deal. She needs to have some idea of the state they're actually in to prioritize this shit accordingly.

Click to shrink...

Frankly- I don't care enough about Oriko being safely in a magical coma for an extra hour or so to traumatize Mami over it or rush back, throwing away what we need to get done in the process. That's as bluntly as I can put it.

She knows they need help. We can and should remind her that they need help without saying KIRIKA'S GOING THROUGH HELL, LET'S DROP EVERYTHING.

But their situation doesn't matter enough to disregard Madoka's mindset, Sayaka's issues, and Mami's happiness over. Kirika's upset but we're not ignoring her, Oriko's not going anywhere...There's no real objective reason to make Mami miserable when a simple reminder would work just fine.

 

[landcollector]

She knows they need help. We can and should remind her that they need help without saying KIRIKA'S GOING THROUGH HELL, LET'S DROP EVERYTHING.

Click to shrink...

I believe you are rather under-estimating the mental effects on Kirika of having to watch over her SO's lifeless body.

 

[FlatlineAskari]

She knows they need help. We can and should remind her that they need help without saying KIRIKA'S GOING THROUGH HELL, LET'S DROP EVERYTHING.

But their situation doesn't matter enough to disregard Madoka's mindset, Sayaka's issues, and Mami's happiness over. Kirika's upset but we're not ignoring her, Oriko's not going anywhere...There's no real objective reason to make Mami miserable when a simple reminder would work just fine.

Click to shrink...

Nothing vital is getting dropped.
Scheduling nonvital shit before Oriko hurts them to no meaningful gain, and is breaking our word.
If Mami doesn't know what's going on, she is going to plan nonvital shit.
Clear enough?

 

[LendvaV]

A vote war, huh.

I'd say Ugo's Kyouko vote is definitely better, but I'm not sure about the Mami part.
Onmur's might even be a bit better, although I don't think it's necessary to stress out OK's situation so much...

 

[Ugolino]

Nothing vital is getting dropped.
Scheduling nonvital shit before Oriko hurts them to no meaningful gain, and is breaking our word.
If Mami doesn't know what's going on, she is going to plan nonvital shit.
Clear enough?

Click to shrink...

If Mami knows we need to help Oriko- and that involves reminding her that she needs help, not talking about Kirika suffering- then she won't make plans. This stuff about their suffering is gratuitous. Mami isn't that stupid.

I believe you are rather under-estimating the mental effects on Kirika of having to watch over her SO's lifeless body.

Click to shrink...

I'm really not, given that we're in constant contact with her and going back once we do what we need to. Also, an hour or two's difference is completely irrelevant.

A vote war, huh.

I'd say Ugo's Kyouko vote is definitely better, but I'm not sure about the Mami part.
Onmur's might even be a bit better, although I don't think it's necessary to stress out OK's situation so much...

Click to shrink...

It's the same idea- both votes talk to Mami about Oriko. Onmur's is going to make her miserable on top of saying the same basic thing. Do we really GET anything out of traumatizing Mami that simply reminding her wouldn't?

 

[FlatlineAskari]

If Mami knows we need to help Oriko- and that involves reminding her that she needs help, not talking about Kirika suffering- then she won't make plans. This stuff about their suffering is gratuitous.

Click to shrink...

She has made plans (dinner, for instance), because she thinks they can wait. Even if they could wait, we told them, specifically, that they wouldn't. Therefore, it isn't gratuitous.

For fucking real, dude. You want the person watching your back to know that you're less important to them than dinner with your friends?

 

[Ugolino]

She has made plans (dinner, for instance), because she thinks they can wait. Even if they could wait, we told them, specifically, that they wouldn't. Therefore, it isn't gratuitous.

For fucking real, dude. You want the person watching your back to know that you're less important to them than dinner with your friends?

Click to shrink...

And if she makes plans for dinner? We tell her we probably should scrap them. But WITHOUT giving the gory details for no reason in what seems like an attempt to make her miserable.

I'll thank you not to misrepresent me- at no point did I suggest we go have dinner first. And even if we did, I wouldn't care much as long as we didn't FORGET about them.

This approach over Kirika and Oriko is basically trying to brute-force Mami into helping rather than handling it with any degree of tact or care. It makes no sense and makes me wish we hadn't saved them in the first place if this is the result.

Changing vote to account for this totally vital and needed thing.


[x]...I kind of just want to drop in, if that's okay. Head over if she gives you the go-ahead. And I was wondering...Would you be interested in a possible job? Hypothetically speaking?
[x]If Kyoko asks for details, tell her it'd involve sparring with a new magical girl sometime to help her get better. Just...showing them the ropes, you know? You're good with that spear of yours. Really good, and she could probably use your help. I could pay with more grief seeds later- and by making clear seeds right now
-[x]If she presses even more, explain that she's one of your friends- Sayaka Miki. We think you two might get on like a house on fire.
-[x]And...we kind of just wanted to hang out for a bit. To talk.
-[x]Ask about Yuma.
[x]If she goes for it, thank her and talk to Mami on the way about school, how she's feeling/how things are going, and our plans for for the rest of today. Gently remind her about Oriko needing our help today, before too much longer. Talk about the picnic if it seems like we need to talk about something lighter.
[x]Check up on Kirika too on the way. Make sure she's okay.

There. We placed more emphasis on something that we were going to say anyway. But the Onmur approach to the problem is just bad.

 

[landcollector]

It makes no sense and makes me wish we hadn't saved them in the first place if this is the result.

Click to shrink...

Kirika's been a good friend to Sabrina and has also been very helpful in battle. This statement of yours is out of line.

 

[FlatlineAskari]

And if she makes plans for dinner? We tell her we probably should scrap them. But WITHOUT giving the gory details for no reason in what seems like an attempt to make her miserable.

Click to shrink...

No, she already has. She doesn't know what is going on. This isn't a reason to tell her to change her plans because reasons, it's a reason to inform her of what's wrong with her plans.

This approach over Kirika and Oriko is basically trying to brute-force Mami into helping rather than handling it with any degree of tact or care. It makes no sense and makes me wish we hadn't saved them in the first place if this is the result.

Click to shrink...

Well, that's not fucked-up at all. It 'doesn't make sense' to try to keep promises to allies? Or it doesn't make sense to give timely help to allies who actually need it?

 

[Ugolino]

Kirika's been a good friend to Sabrina and has also been very helpful in battle. This statement of yours is out of line.

Click to shrink...

Yes, yes, bestbuddy and all that. It's still how this silliness is making me feel as a reader about two NPCs in a quest. If this makes it into Sabrina's mindset, so be it. I'm annoyed enough not to care right now.

This thing where we excessively rub in that Mami's idea about dinner would have left Kirika traumatized is actively making me regret voting to save them in the first place. That's a fact.

No, she already has. She doesn't know what is going on. This isn't a reason to tell her to change her plans because reasons, it's a reason to inform her of what's wrong with her plans.


Well, that's not fucked-up at all. It 'doesn't make sense' to try to keep promises to allies? Or it doesn't make sense to give timely help to allies who actually need it?

Click to shrink...

There's keeping a promise which is great. Which is why we're actually going back soonish after helping some other people and grabbing Mami.

Then there's throwing everyone else under the bus for your favorite characters in a way that won't actually help them more, which isn't. I'm thinking this idea is closer to the latter.

 

[FlatlineAskari]

There's keeping a promise which is great. There's throwing everyone else under the bus for your favorite characters, which isn't. I'm thinking this idea is closer to the latter.

Click to shrink...

Ah, we reach the strawman stage. Delightful.

 

[Ugolino]

Ah, we reach the strawman stage. Delightful.

Click to shrink...

Okay, that was more than a little unfair of me. Sorry for the accusation about your reasoning.

I do see what you want as throwing the other characters under the bus, metaphorically speaking- or rather disregarding their wellbeing because of the Oriko situation. We need to talk to Madoka. We need to talk to Sayaka and help her. We're about to head off to Kyoko because there's no way for us to help Oriko and Kirika without Mami and that won't happen for a while yet.

We SHOULDN'T tell Mami about things in such a way that it'd upset her for no gain that just asking normally wouldn't give us anyway. We SHOULD strongly suggest that we help Oriko as soon as we're done with Madoka and Sayaka if she doesn't draw that conclusion ourself.

The way we put it is where I'm having issues with the Onmur vote.

 

[EtchedSteel]

Could someone please tally votes please? I'm on phone and in no way I'm gonna read pages and pages on discussion about people being extremely dense on human interaction.

 

[Ugolino]

Spoiler

Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[x] Muramasa
No. of votes: 1
FelOnyx

[X] Ugolino
No. of votes: 4
Godwinson, MrLZRS, LendvaV, Dragontrapper

[x] Ugo
No. of votes: 1
AuraTwilight

[x] Sayaka
No. of votes: 1
UbeOne

[x]...I kind of just want to drop in, if that's okay. Head over if she gives you the go-ahead. And I was wondering...Would you be interested in a possible job? I could pay with more grief seeds later- and by making clear seeds right now or pure gold or cash if you want.
[x]If Kyoko asks for details, tell her it'd involve sparring with a new magical girl sometime, to help her get better. Just...showing them the ropes, you know? You're good with that spear of yours. Really good, and she could use your help.
-[x]If she presses even more, explain that she's one of your friends- Sayaka Miki. We think you two might get on like a house on fire.
-[x]And...we kind of just wanted to hang out for a bit. To talk.
-[x]Ask about Yuma.
[x]If she goes for it, thank her and talk to Mami on the way about school, how she's feeling/how things are going, and our plans for for the rest of today. Gently remind her about Oriko if it seems like her plans mean she won't get healed. That, or talk about the picnic.
[x]Check up on Kirika too on the way. Make sure she's okay.
No. of votes: 1
noahgab1133

[x]I just wanted to hang out and talk for a bit, if that's okay with you. I could give you and Yuma a cleanse and treat you both to some food. Head on over if she give the go-ahead.
-[x]Ask about Yuma.
[x]If she goes for it, thank her and talk to Mami on the way about school, how she's feeling/how things are going, and our plans for for the rest of today. Gently remind her about Oriko if it seems like her plans mean she won't get healed. That, or talk about the picnic.
[x]Check up on Kirika too on the way. Make sure she's okay.
No. of votes: 1
Agent Whiskers

[X] Onmur
No. of votes: 1
Skelm

[X] Onmur the best poster
No. of votes: 1
Loktarogar

[X] To Kyouko:
-[X] I want to hang out a bit, check up on Yuma. And you. Talk about life, Grief, and...
-[X] There's a project I'm working on, trying to improve the lives of Magical Girls everywhere. I need to you to see it, it's kind of a 'see it to believe it' sort of thing; I think you'll find it very useful.
-[X] There's a catch, though, but I think you'll like it.
[X] To Mami:
-[X] Ask her what she's planning to do today, besides dinner with everybody.
-[X] Tell her you talked with Masami; she and her girlfriend agreed to look after Ono. So that's a weight off your mind.
-[X] Tell her you've got a problem. You promised to try and solve Oriko's issue, and that might require a lot of time. Oriko's disconnected right now, so basically a corpse, and that's hell on Kirika. You don't want to leave them hanging like that.
-[X] ... Does she think Sayaka would be happy to finish healing Kyousuke on her own? Don't want to bail out on her, but you need time...
-[X] If need be, you could stand to lose sleep tonight. Just once, it should be fine.
No. of votes: 5
Onmur, Sereg, defenestrator, sopchoppy, FlatlineAskari

[x]...I kind of just want to drop in, if that's okay. Head over if she gives you the go-ahead. And I was wondering...Would you be interested in a possible job? Hypothetically speaking?
[x]If Kyoko asks for details, tell her it'd involve sparring with a new magical girl sometime to help her get better. Just...showing them the ropes, you know? You're good with that spear of yours. Really good, and she could probably use your help. I could pay with more grief seeds later- and by making clear seeds right now
-[x]If she presses even more, explain that she's one of your friends- Sayaka Miki. We think you two might get on like a house on fire.
-[x]And...we kind of just wanted to hang out for a bit. To talk.
-[x]Ask about Yuma.
[x]If she goes for it, thank her and talk to Mami on the way about school, how she's feeling/how things are going, and our plans for for the rest of today. Gently remind her about Oriko needing our help today, before too much longer. Talk about the picnic if it seems like we need to talk about something lighter.
[x]Check up on Kirika too on the way. Make sure she's okay.
No. of votes: 1
Ugolino

About even split between the two plans.

 

[UbeOne]

Onmur vs. Ugolino, really...

 

[FlatlineAskari]

You want to head back ASAP, don't you? Ignoring Madoka and Sayaka? You're currently arguing to give Mami excessive details to verbally bludgeon her into going along with this rather than simply saying that we should- and since she trusts us anyway I don't see the point- and ignoring how she'd probably take things badly given how we CAN'T go back for a while yet?

Click to shrink...

... Okay. To clarify.

I have no particular objection to going and getting Kyouko a clear seed.
I have no objection to a brief conversation with Sayaka and Madoka, if there are specific, important points to be made laid out which cannot be made either later or over telepathy.
I'm in favor of having Sayaka do healing (with our clear seed), if she's willing. It's important practice, and will take a while.

Her training - I think we should defer everything but the very basics, unless someone else (Homura?) can take charge of it for a couple of hours. It's an open-ended task.

I think giving her a more complete picture of the situation is the only way we can justify changing Mami's plans. Avoiding doing so doesn't spare her the details, in any case; it just means she won't have any idea what she's dealing with - what we've done - until she sees it.

 

[Onmur]

Changing:

Tell her you've got a problem. You promised to try and solve Oriko's issue, and that might require a lot of time. Oriko's disconnected right now, so basically a corpse, and that's hell on Kirika. You don't want to leave them hanging like that.

Click to shrink...

to:

Tell her you've got a problem. You promised to try and solve Oriko's issue, and that might require a lot of time. Oriko's disconnected right now; you don't want to leave them hanging like that if you can help it.

Click to shrink...

Mami might draw her own conclusions.

[X] To Kyouko:
-[X] I want to hang out a bit, check up on Yuma. And you. Talk about life, Grief, and...
-[X] There's a project I'm working on, trying to improve the lives of Magical Girls everywhere. I need to you to see it, it's kind of a 'see it to believe it' sort of thing; I think you'll find it very useful.
-[X] There's a catch, though, but I think you'll like it.
[X] To Mami:
-[X] Ask her what she's planning to do today, besides dinner with everybody.
-[X] Tell her you talked with Masami; she and her girlfriend agreed to look after Ono. So that's a weight off your mind.
-[X] Tell her you've got a problem. You promised to try and solve Oriko's issue, and that might require a lot of time. Oriko's disconnected right now; you don't want to leave them hanging like that if you can help it.
-[X] ... Does she think Sayaka would be happy to finish healing Kyousuke on her own? Don't want to bail out on her, but you need time...
-[X] If need be, you could stand to lose sleep tonight. Just once, it should be fine.
[X] To Kirika: Chat about inane stuff, try to keep her mind off Oriko.

Now it would be funny if Kyouko just told us to fuck off first thing, and basically interrupted the whole vote.

Mmm... I was hoping next time we visited Kasamino, we'd use travel time for some Grief tinkering/enchantment practice, but we might need the time to breach the Kyouko subject to Mami...