Isn't that the complete opposite of what we told Mami regarding the lich bomb? That we're more than just a soul gem?
I don't remember. Probably. I'll take a minute to re read that clusterfuck, I guess.

Maybe, "this is my soul", instead?

Point is to chage "you'll die when...", for "I'll die when...", and let Ono make the comparison.
 
Saying that we are more than just a rock is all well and good (we are), but this is literally true. Soul gem breaks, we die.

That's not the point. Worded as is goes completely against how we addressed the lich bomb to Mami. Beside the point of going full horror and trauma on Megane (which I'm against), it's a total flip flop on our philoshophy regarding souls in general. I can't agree to this approach at all.
 
[X] Muramasa

On reflection, standing around at the beginning and leaving at the end are both awful ideas. She won't calm down at the former and she'll just tell us to fuck off at the latter.
 
That's not the point. Worded as is goes completely against how we addressed the lich bomb to Mami. Beside the point of going full horror and trauma on Megane (which I'm against), it's a total flip flop on our philoshophy regarding souls in general. I can't agree to this approach at all.
Well, kind of.
"Mami... our Soul Gems can keep us alive. Because," you swallow. "Because that's what we are now. This is where our soul is... now."

Mami laughs, a choked, gurgling noise. "H-how c-ca-" This time, nothing but bile comes up. "M-my soul is in a r-r-rock-"

You cringe.

"But you're still you, no matter what Kyuubey did,"

"No matter what. You're still you, Mami. Still a good person. One who has an amazingly kind heart, one who always means well... a prodigy, who's saved countless lives and always does what good she can. My friend, Mami, kind and good and caring."

A hand on the side of the teapot tells you that the tea's cold now.

Very briefly, you debate on microwaving it, before grimacing in disgust and pouring it down the drain. You start the kettle again with a sigh.

"Mami, how are you? How are you feeling?"

She stays silent for a moment, gathering her thoughts. "I-I'm a r-rock. And Kyuubey did this to me..." she whispers, without looking at you. "Kyuubey..."

"A rock?" you ask, sitting upright and gently nudging her upright, too. Mami looks hurt, but acquiesces when you grab her hand by the wrist. You press her hand to her chest, over her heart. "Feel that?"

"I-I-" Mami stutters. "D-do you mean my h-heartbeat?"

"Yeah," you say. "You're still you, Mami, no matter what. Not a rock. Still alive, still a good person, still my friend. Don't doubt any of that, Mami."

"Y-you mean it, right?" Mami says anxiously. "I-I t-thought... Kyuubey..."

You nod, even as your expression flattens out into a heavy frown. "It let you think that, Mami. Kyuubey... lies by omission, if not outright. It's been doing this for a long time."

Mami sways, dismay creeping across her face again.

"Don't blame yourself," you tell her. "None of this is your fault."

"I..." Mami swallows. "OK. I- OK."
We did tell her 'we are Soul Gems, that's where our Soul is now', while also saying that doesn't make us rocks, that we are still the same people, anyway.
 
[X] Muramasa

Honestly, I don't know what to vote for. I'm just hoping that, if this does blow up, we can just stick her in a very comfortable box and carry her around until she gets better. It's not like we have to go to school, after all, and we can just say that she's sick if hers tries to call her.
 
No, you aren't dead, you're just completely and maliciously insane. Saying that you die is a bad mind-set to be in if we want to dewitch grief seeds.
When you become a witch, the following typically happens:
1. Your soul shatters.
2. You lose control of (or abandon) your human body.
3. You lose access to all emotions except for despair.
4. You lose the ability to communicate.
5. You lose all of your memories and the ability to distinguish former friends from enemies.
6. You lose all previous motivations and have them replaced with gratuitous undirected homicide.
7. Your name changes.

Each witch is unique, so there are some that don't follow this pattern completely (e.g. Margot didn't attack Oriko), but in general the change is big enough that most people would agree that "death" is an accurate word to describe what happens, even if part of the soul does happen to still be moving around afterwards.

With respect to the vote, I feel that there is a danger of Ono physically attacking us if we don't do as she says and leave the room right now. Sure, we can restrain her if she does so, but I'd rather give her a bit of physical space and a bit of time to calm down before forcing the meeting. Switching back to my previous vote:

[X] "OK, we'll leave."
[X] As you walk out the door: "We came here because you're on our team now, and we refuse to let you die. Come out when you're ready to talk."
[X] Ask to cleanse Homura.
[X] Wait for Ono to come out.
 
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When you become a witch, the following typically happens:
1. Your soul shatters.
2. You lose control of (or abandon) your human body.
3. You lose access to all emotions except for despair.
4. You lose the ability to communicate.
5. You lose all of your memories and the ability to distinguish former friends from enemies.
6. You lose all previous motivations and have them replaced with gratuitous undirected homicide.

Each witch is unique, so there are some that don't follow this pattern completely (e.g. Margot didn't attack Oriko), but in general the change is big enough that most people would agree that "death" is an accurate word to describe what happens, even if part of the soul does happen to still be moving around afterwards.

With respect to the vote, I feel that there is a danger of Ono physically attacking us if we don't do as she says and leave the room right now. Sure, we can restrain her if she does so, but I'd rather give her a bit of physical space and a bit of time to calm down before forcing the meeting. Switching back to my previous vote:

[X] "OK, we'll leave."
[X] As you walk out the door: "We came here because you're on our team now, and we refuse to let you die. Come out when you're ready to talk."
[X] Ask to cleanse Homura.
[X] Wait for Ono to come out.
Again, the leaving just leads to stonewalling. She doesn't want to talk to us, and give the option she won't.
 
Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Muramasa
No. of votes: 4
Imrix, EtchedSteel, AuraTwilight, Dirtnap

[X] Best Girl
No. of votes: 1
Kai Merah

[X] I'm sorry Megane. I'm afraid I can't do that. Your misconceptions about magical girls, witches and your magic need to be addressed tonight. Now. Your life depends on it.
[X] If you want a moment to collect yourself, that's fine. But we can't leave until we've had this talk.
-[X] You are burning through too much magic, too quickly. Your soul gem is darkening way too fast.
--[X] Mami, how many grief seeds does the average magical girl go through in a week?
-[X] You're killing yourself, Megane. That's what'll happen when your Soul Gem fills up completely, or when you go try to fight a Witch alone, while high on corruption. I told you, it affects your judgement in the worst way; apathy, uncontrollable despair, anger, irrational hate. It's an extremely dangerous position to be in.
-[X] And I can't have that. I can't have you ignorant of the dangers of this world you've been brought into.
--[X] Kyubey does not tell a magical girl anything other than to hunt witches, by its alien logic you are supposed to ask the right questions otherwise it is more than willing to let you go in blind into the contract without even mentioning the dangers of wishes or fighting a witch. Yes wishes can be dangerous, say the wrong thing and your mind can be damaged or broken entirely, not to mention there are some witches so powerful that it takes entire teams of magical girls to beat.
---[X] For all the fluffy outside, inside , kyubey is an inhuman being that only cares for stopping entropy through the most efficient method possible. It is not your friend, or ally it is at best a tool for disposing of grief. It regularly puts magical girls to fight against each as well as witches due to the extra grief that is produced by this.
-[X] If megane starts to become violent cleanse, restrain, and/or disconnect depending on what homura and mami think is best.
No. of votes: 1
noahgab1133

[X] Take a step back, raise hands in conciliatory gesture.
[X] Wait. Wait until she's no longer frantic or shouting at us. Wait as long as necessary.
[X] When we have her complete attention, drop hands slowly, speak in gentle tones, and try to convey concern:
-[X] If your soul gem fills, you'll die. We need to talk about how to prevent that.
-[X] All of us are worried about you. We can go elsewhere to talk, but please, we need you to hear us out.
[X] Pause to gauge if what we said had any impact or reaction.
No. of votes: 4
SynchronizedWritersBlock, Skelm, Lordsservent, MrLZRS

[x] SWB
No. of votes: 3
cmwatford, CornyBones, TJSomething

[X] *shake head* I can't.
[X] You're dying and you don't even know it.
[X] Megane, we wouldn't have broken in like this if the danger wasn't real.
-[x] Take one of your Grief Seeds (Andrea). Place it on a desk or bedside.
[X] Stand with Mami and Homura.
[X] Please calm down. No one here wants to hurt you.
No. of votes: 3
Muramasa, Gadjo, chocolote12

[x] Be gentle and comforting, but firm
[x] We're not going to abandon you, Ono.
[x] If you want to have this meeting elsewhere, that's fine, but then you're coming with us.
[x] We're worried about you and you're part of our team now. We don't abandon our teammates, even when they've been deceived and think that they'd be better off alone.
[x] A magical girl cannot be successful by herself for long. You haven't been taught how to survive as a magical girl and we're not leaving you till we're satisfied that we aren't going to lose you.
[x] Being a magical girl is more dangerous than you've been led to believe and I don't want to lose you.
[x] I am sorry that I contributed to your problems with my delays. I would not have delayed if I had realised how urgent this meeting was and I never intended to insult you. I hope that you will forgive me, but first, I need to keep you alive.
[x] I also see that you have had stress elsewhere. You don't have to talk to us about those, but I hope that you will be willing to accept our help, or at least our ears, there too.
[x] We're having this meeting tonight, because I'm not losing you, Ono. But if you need a minute to collect yourself or wish to suggest a different location, that's up to you.
No. of votes: 1
Sereg

[x] abstain
No. of votes: 1
moonstne

[X] *shake head* I can't.
[X] You're in danger and you don't even know it.
[X] Megane, we wouldn't have broken in like this if the danger wasn't real.
-[x] Take one of your Grief Seeds (Andrea). Place it on a desk or bedside.
[X] Stand with Mami and Homura.
[X] Please calm down. No one here wants to hurt you.
No. of votes: 1
Ugolino

[X] No/I can't/I'm not leaving/etc. Repeat until Ono stops demanding we leave.
-[X] Unless she becomes aggresive, take a seat somewhere. This might take a while.
[X] Once she stops, transform your Soul Gem into egg form. Look at me, Ono. This is what I am. Show Gem. The day this thing breaks, is the day I die; and the day this fills up with grief, is the day it'll shatter. (Careful when presenting your weak point. DC Ono from timestop if necessary)
-[X] Return Gem to ring form. This is my life, now. Our life.
[X] If she doesn't panic further, give her a moment and, Wanna go for a walk?
No. of votes: 2
Onmur, Tiroth

[X] OK, we'll leave.
[X] As you walk out the door: We came here because you're on our team now, and we refuse to let you die. Come out when you're ready to talk.
[X] Ask to cleanse Homura.
[X] Wait for Ono to come out.
No. of votes: 1
boonerunner

[X] Megane, we wouldn't have broken in like this if the danger wasn't real.
Still sounds kind of derpy to me. We broke in because we think she might die tonight otherwise, so...

[] Megane, we wouldn't have broken in like this if your life wasn't in danger.

In fact we know two cases where the witch would not attack a specific person, Margot didn't attack Oriko and Homulily didn't attack Madoka.
That'd make it both times the meguca witched out for the sake of the one they weren't hostile against.
 
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[x] Onmur

It should be allowed. Approval voting, which lets people vote for multiple things, has been proven to prevent the spoiler effect, where a weaker third party candidate steals votes away from the person who would otherwise win. A specific instance in America in 1992 was when Perot took votes from Bush Sr., resulting in Clinton's election. This decreases the instance of bandwagons, because you can safely vote for a relatively unknown vote, as well as what you think the reasonable bandwagon is. However, instant runoff voting, where you rank votes, is slightly better, as you can say that your first choice is the minority opinion and your second choice is a vote that will probably be popular.
 
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[x] Onmur

It should be allowed. Approval voting, which lets people vote for multiple things, has been proven to prevent the spoiler effect, where a weaker third party candidate steals votes away from the person who would otherwise win. A specific instance in America in 1992 was when Perot took votes from Bush Sr., resulting in Clinton's election. This decreases the instance of bandwagons, because you can safely vote for a relatively unknown vote, as well as what you think the reasonable bandwagon is. However, instant runoff voting, where you rank votes, is slightly better, as you can say that your first choice is the minority opinion and your second choice is a vote that will probably be popular.
I think it would get kind of screwy. Let's say you could vote for not only 2 choices, but as many as you want. Then you can vote for all but 1 person, effectively resulting in an 'antivote', which is not allowed.
 
I think it would get kind of screwy. Let's say you could vote for not only 2 choices, but as many as you want. Then you can vote for all but 1 person, effectively resulting in an 'antivote', which is not allowed.

But you can effectively strategically vote like that with the current first-past-the-post voting system. Since only votes for the top two candidates matter, if you wanted to consistently anti-vote a person, if they get into the top two then you vote for the other choice in the top two, and abstain the rest of the the time, which is effectively a constant anti-vote for a single person.
 
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But you can effectively strategically vote like that with the current first-past-the-post voting system. Since only votes for the top two candidates matter, if you wanted to consistently anti-vote a person, if they get into the top two then you vote for the other choice in the top two, and abstain the rest of the the time, which is effectively a constant anti-vote for a single person.
Eh, complex voting systems are annoying to deal with for both the Quest runner and the voters. This way is simple, and it's flaws aren't so bad that the solution is worth the hassle it'll take to get used to a new way of voting.
 
But you can effectively strategically vote like that with the current first-past-the-post voting system. Since only votes for the top two candidates matter, if you wanted to consistently anti-vote a person, if they get into the top two then you vote for the other choice in the top two, and abstain the rest of the them, that's effectively a constant anti-vote.
That requires two votes to convince most people to vote for them; the 'best' options rise above before one wins.

Anti-voting allows people to pull down certain votes without actually helping create a competing alternative.

Well, I'm not certain how meta voting works, but I think that's about it.
 
I'm not convinced, and I might try to run a simulation of different voting methods, but after a bit of thought, I realize that many of the problems I have are solved by my ability to change my vote at the last minute from whatever minority opinion I actually want to the bandwagon that I prefer slightly over the other bandwagon.
 
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[x] Be gentle and comforting, but firm
[x] Shake head
[x] That would be abandoning you, and I won't do that.
[x] If we leave, you're coming with us or it's after we're satisfied that you're safe.
[x] You haven't been taught how to survive and I won't lose you. We're a team now.

Okay. Tried to make my earlier idea more concise.
 
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