chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I take offense to this. We put in enough effort to create a full sized Mitakihara, so calling it little belittles our accomplishment.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
That would be fine. The point is that we need to talk to Mami, to tell her about our thought process, that we did consider the risks, so that she doesn't worry (as much) about us being reckless in the future.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I don't think it'll go wrong, but yes, let's not try this on Sayaka first thing.
When we do try, I'm thinking instead of destroying the Witch Kiss, we might try to move it out of the afflicted person?
EDIT: Also, not steamrolling over Mami is nice and all, but we should not forget about Homura.
When we do try, I'm thinking instead of destroying the Witch Kiss, we might try to move it out of the afflicted person?
Get those tendrils out before destroying the thing, though I think nothing wrong should happen either way.
EDIT: Also, not steamrolling over Mami is nice and all, but we should not forget about Homura.
Same opinion, but I see everybody fixating on Mami's objection.
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Note that leaving the Witch Kiss alone has its own set of risks. If Timestop gets disrupted while we're fighting the Witch, for instance, or if the Witch Kiss has lingering effects on Sayaka after the Witch is defeated. The grief from the Kiss has to go somewhere after the Witch is defeated and it won't necessarily dissipate harmlessly. It's possible that lingering effects of the Kiss could cause depression; and that might be mitigated by removing the Kiss.
But perhaps it's safer to go with the known solution (after some discussion):
[x] Describe what what the Witch Kiss feels like to your senses.
[x] Describe how you were planning on removing it and how this would be different from the experiment with the Chicken Witch's Familiar.
[x] Say that you had considered there to be some risk, but had considered it worthwhile. But now, Mami's concern has made you reconsider.
[x] Ask if they know of any lingering effects that can result from a Witch Kiss.
[x] Ask if we should tie Sayaka down so that she doesn't hurt herself.
[x] Armor up (warn first - then make Armor, Gauntlets, Wings, Harness), and go fight the witch as a team. This is not an ordinary witch fight. Play it cautiously. No games. Support Mami and Homura with your grief rending.
But perhaps it's safer to go with the known solution (after some discussion):
[x] Describe what what the Witch Kiss feels like to your senses.
[x] Describe how you were planning on removing it and how this would be different from the experiment with the Chicken Witch's Familiar.
[x] Say that you had considered there to be some risk, but had considered it worthwhile. But now, Mami's concern has made you reconsider.
[x] Ask if they know of any lingering effects that can result from a Witch Kiss.
[x] Ask if we should tie Sayaka down so that she doesn't hurt herself.
[x] Armor up (warn first - then make Armor, Gauntlets, Wings, Harness), and go fight the witch as a team. This is not an ordinary witch fight. Play it cautiously. No games. Support Mami and Homura with your grief rending.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Witch kisses have been noted to dissipate harmlessly after the witch has been slain, but we control All grief, and this will allow us to correct any lingering imbalances of grief within Sayaka after the fact. A grief machine that only removes grief from a specific source would probably be needed to make sure that we don't paint smiley faces on Sayaka's soul, though. That'd be incredibly bad.
We know that the Kisses dissipate after the Witch is killed, yes:
But harmless? That we don't know. Mami's comment that Kyuubey would help with the Witch Kissed people could indicate that there are lingering effects (or that he brainwashes them).
TJSomething
That's... that's impossible!
I think that this lingers on the subject for too long, given the mental states of our party, and that the armor and gauntlets are unnecessary. But I think a little explanation is reasonable. So, I'm voting for a minor change on Mura's vote.
[] "Right. Better to just take out the witch then."
[] "Um... in that case, Mami, could you make sure Sayaka doesn't hurt herself?"
[] Go fight the witch as a team. This is not an ordinary witch fight. Play it cautiously. No games. Support Mami and Homura with your grief rending.
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noahgab1133
Fluffy?
i'd say we should remove now for the info sayaka has. Who knows what else has messed with the witch or if her parents could still be in danger?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
boone, there's no point to worrying over this.
This is Homura speaking. This almost exact situation must have happened dozens of times during her loops, so she knows best.
Let's just hope Elsa Maria didn't get buffed with anti-timestop tech.
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Why do I think that the armor and gauntlets are necessary? You said it yourself:
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Obviously Homura has seen people get Witch Kissed before (and recover). Usually it happens to people that she doesn't care about. How much do you think she cares about an extra bit of lingering depression that might result from the grief in a Witch Kiss?
AnonymousRabbit
Rabbit Faced
[x] Muramasa
TJSomething
That's... that's impossible!
I just don't think that the debuffs to will checks for Mami and Homura caused by witchy stuff is worth the extra defense we get.
Edit: Well, less so for Homura. For her, it's more that I think her later cooperation on later, more important, crazy-sounding plans is contingent on her believing that she has agency in the decision-making process of these plans.
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
There was atleast one timeline where Madoka was witch-kissed, Boone. We know because it was the canon one, and she's totally fine as soon as Sayaka disrupts the process.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Armor is fine, if it's just solid grief plates under the meguca outfit. Almost doesn't feel witchy at all.
No real need for full plate.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Whatever we choose, we should examine the Witch's Kiss more closely with our grief/magic/construct senses. If, for instance, we find that the WK (which is comprised of grief) is somehow interlaced with the victim's brain, then we know it's not a good idea to try until we consult Kyubey (I know, I know--but if we carefully and thoroughly question him on the matter, we won't be fooled or manipulated; if he refuses to give straight answers, then we know not to trust anything he said). If we find that the WK is only "skin deep" so to speak, then we'll be better informed for next time anyway.
So the immediate response for Sabrina is to acknowledge Mami's point and concede that whether we try to remove it ourselves or not, we should try a few things first to understand as much as we can about it without actually doing anything to the WK.
Personally, the only indications that would convince me not to try removing it ourselves would be seeing the WK somehow tied to any vital organs in the victim. If it isn't, then the risk should be negligible.
So the immediate response for Sabrina is to acknowledge Mami's point and concede that whether we try to remove it ourselves or not, we should try a few things first to understand as much as we can about it without actually doing anything to the WK.
Personally, the only indications that would convince me not to try removing it ourselves would be seeing the WK somehow tied to any vital organs in the victim. If it isn't, then the risk should be negligible.
Uh...you have Mami staying outside the barrier with Sayaka to make sure nothing happens to her, yet also coming inside the Barrier with us to fight the Witch. Self-contradictory.
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Mister Bad Guy
Mr Mercury to friends
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What, you mean when Elly was trying to eat her? I'm pretty sure that wasn't a witch kiss. There was nothing about it that was like a witch kiss, other than that it was a witch doing stuff to a human.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
[] Um... in that case, Mami, could you make sure Sayaka doesn't hurt herself?"
I think this means tying up Sayaka.
Gadjo
Doka
Boone, literally every source we have in and out of canon says that a witch kiss is harmless long term. Even if it was people Homura didn't care that much about, I'm sure Hitomi and Sayaka have been witch kissed a fair bit over the last 100 timelines, and Homura would at least have found out from Madoka after the fact.
If that's not good enough, look at Hitomi: she gets kissed in ep 4 and displays no real changes in behavior.
Worrying about some sort of lingering effect from out of nowhere is shadowrunning. This isn't witch quest.
You're probably thinking of this section:
Our entire fighting style is based on using grief. There's no way around that. We would be pointlessly hamstringing ourselves if we didn't use it. Mami and Homura know that. The problems happen if we use it without warning.
I don't recall Madoka being witch kissed, but Hitomi was. And she was visibly fine after recovering, sure. But remember what a Witch Kiss is: it's a mind control device controlled by an entity who is so deep in despair that it makes the people it controls try to commit suicide. I don't think that anyone could be "totally fine" after that, even if the grief from the Kiss itself didn't make it worse. This is one situation where Kyuubey's mind wiping is quite understandable.
I'm not saying that we should remove the Kiss now. Mami has voiced concern, and while I think we should respect her by putting some effort into discussing the issue, ultimately what that boils down to is that we're not going to remove the Kiss right now. But after we defeat the Witch, we should study Sayaka for signs of grief left over from the Kiss and try to remove them if we find any.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
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- He/Him
Wait, no we haven't. IIRC, in nearly all cases where something turned out to not be safe, we had already fully acknowledged that there was a real chance it could turn out to be dangerous. This is reasonable--if you never try anything unless you are absolutely sure there is no risk, you're never going to try much of anything period.
Sabrina's testing has actually been pretty responsible, all things considered. Her only major flaw is her tendency to not have a spotter (or two) present when conducting experiments with a real risk involved, but this tendency arose from (and has been continually reinforced, unfortunately, by the extremely skittish Mami and highly conservative Homura) her friends' tendency to freak out every time an experiment isn't pain-free and all according to plan. At this point, the only one she can turn to for help with her experimentation is Oriko, which is risky in itself because it potentially drives a wedge between Sabrina and Mami/Homura in the process, even if it's safer and more effective.
Thing is, Homura is not always going to be on hand to provide timestop, and we really don't want to be in a situation where we have to choose between either rushing an untested, unprecedented act of removing a Witch Kiss or blitzing the Witch and hoping the victim doesn't die in the mean time. Right now, the only thing making this opportunity not ideal is that we haven't had the chance to interrogate Kyubey about it first. That's it.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We actually did warn them that time. We warned them a few minutes in advance, not just before we used the stuff, but we did.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Her thought process is very clearly being manipulated by Elly, who's also showing her memories on her glass boxes. To emphasize the point, her art-style changes from the witch's barrier to her normal rendering as soon as she realizes Sayaka is here to save her and she stops trying to justify her impending death as a moral punishment for her cowardice.
Gadjo
Doka
I personally thing removing a WK is risk-free, honestly. This is more because Mami just doesn't need more stress right now.