Oriko shouldn't be turned away from this too, right? And if so, can we at least headpat, just so we can touch that sacred bucket-hat?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Oriko shouldn't be turned away from this too, right? And if so, can we at least headpat, just so we can touch that sacred bucket-hat?
PhDEevee
Mathematician and Questgiver
- Location
- Sydney
Y'know, in this scene originally Sayaka and Madoka were there because Hitomi had been Kissed. Now, I know it's different, because Sayaka has been kissed this time, but I would not be surprised if Hitomi were around. Or Madoka.
The way I see it: we're playing what was Madoka's part, and Sayaka's playing what was Hitomi's - so who's playing Sayaka's?
The way I see it: we're playing what was Madoka's part, and Sayaka's playing what was Hitomi's - so who's playing Sayaka's?
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
Octavia.
but for realz, probably Ono if the scene has to turn out the same way, but otherwise I doubt that fate is that strict.
Our Benefactor pt. 27
You approach Sayaka cautiously, scanning around the area for possible traps. If someone, or perhaps something, knew about Homura's timestop, then a simple tripwire wired to an explosive would be deadly effective. You push your Grief senses, trying to pick up everything that might be dangerous in the area.
Homura and Mami, ahead of you and close beside you, respectively. Sayaka, just there, with the malignant tumour of the Witch Kiss on her neck, and the Witch Barrier. A bit further away, and... you squint. It looks like it's set on the end of a half finished and abandoned building, resting near the tip of an exposed girder.
Mami follows the direction of your gaze and spots the Barrier, nodding at you. She frowns around the area, expression businesslike as she looks around the scene, eyes flicking across the area as she, too, scans for threats. She still sticks close to you, though.
Hmmm.
Homura stalks across the dusty road, reaching Sayaka first. She stops short, heels clicking on the pavement as she inspects the girl.
You join her, the three of you simply staring at Sayaka, trying to divine how this had happened - or at least, that's what you're trying to do. You probe the Witch Kiss with your senses, but... it seems to be more or less the same as the last Witch Kisses you'd looked at. Something that's practically a Familiar, something winding ephemeral tendrils of Grief into Sayaka.
Homura makes an annoyed sound in the back of her throat, and glances at you. "We should just kill the Witch. That will end the Kiss," she states.
"I think I can get rid of the Witch Kiss, actually," you say with a shake of your head.
The time traveller frowns dubiously, her mouth twisting into a grimace, but doesn't say anything more.
A thought strikes you, and you cock your head. "Hmm, actually..." you say, a frown flickering across your face. "Have you heard of potentials-" you tilt your head to indicate Sayaka, "-being Witch Kissed before?"
Homura blinks at you, expression unchanged. "Yes."
"Um," Mami says, looking at you. "Yes, girls with potential are n-normal people. Until they m-make their c-contract with..." She breaks off the sentence, swallowing and eyes dipping towards the floor.
"Ah," you say. "That makes sense. Thanks, Homura, Mami." You smile at them, and capture Mami's hand, giving it a quick squeeze of reassurance and silent thanks. She looks up at you, giving you a wavering smile.
You nod at Mami. "Alright, then," you say. "I think I can do this, so..." You let go of Mami's hand. You crack your knuckles, using the pause to mentally prepare for this. It shouldn't be any different from melting a Familiar, but you want to be focused for this, after all. Centered, and focused, you reach out a hand towards Sayaka.
Mami interrupts you. "Sabrina, w-wait," she says. "A-are you..."
She trails off, looking down at the floor.
You lower your hand, looking over at Mami. "What is it, Mami?" Out of the corner of your eye, you can see Homura frowning at Mami, then at you.
"N-no," she says. "Never mind."
"Mami..." you say, reaching out to take her hand gently. "What is it?"
Her eyes follow your arm up to your face, her golden eyes huge and worried. "I-I. I'm sure y-you can do it, Sabrina, but..." Mami swallows hard. "A-are you... sure? That it's s-safe?"
[] Write-in
Oh.
Homura and Mami, ahead of you and close beside you, respectively. Sayaka, just there, with the malignant tumour of the Witch Kiss on her neck, and the Witch Barrier. A bit further away, and... you squint. It looks like it's set on the end of a half finished and abandoned building, resting near the tip of an exposed girder.
Mami follows the direction of your gaze and spots the Barrier, nodding at you. She frowns around the area, expression businesslike as she looks around the scene, eyes flicking across the area as she, too, scans for threats. She still sticks close to you, though.
Hmmm.
Homura stalks across the dusty road, reaching Sayaka first. She stops short, heels clicking on the pavement as she inspects the girl.
You join her, the three of you simply staring at Sayaka, trying to divine how this had happened - or at least, that's what you're trying to do. You probe the Witch Kiss with your senses, but... it seems to be more or less the same as the last Witch Kisses you'd looked at. Something that's practically a Familiar, something winding ephemeral tendrils of Grief into Sayaka.
Homura makes an annoyed sound in the back of her throat, and glances at you. "We should just kill the Witch. That will end the Kiss," she states.
"I think I can get rid of the Witch Kiss, actually," you say with a shake of your head.
The time traveller frowns dubiously, her mouth twisting into a grimace, but doesn't say anything more.
A thought strikes you, and you cock your head. "Hmm, actually..." you say, a frown flickering across your face. "Have you heard of potentials-" you tilt your head to indicate Sayaka, "-being Witch Kissed before?"
Homura blinks at you, expression unchanged. "Yes."
"Um," Mami says, looking at you. "Yes, girls with potential are n-normal people. Until they m-make their c-contract with..." She breaks off the sentence, swallowing and eyes dipping towards the floor.
"Ah," you say. "That makes sense. Thanks, Homura, Mami." You smile at them, and capture Mami's hand, giving it a quick squeeze of reassurance and silent thanks. She looks up at you, giving you a wavering smile.
You nod at Mami. "Alright, then," you say. "I think I can do this, so..." You let go of Mami's hand. You crack your knuckles, using the pause to mentally prepare for this. It shouldn't be any different from melting a Familiar, but you want to be focused for this, after all. Centered, and focused, you reach out a hand towards Sayaka.
Mami interrupts you. "Sabrina, w-wait," she says. "A-are you..."
She trails off, looking down at the floor.
You lower your hand, looking over at Mami. "What is it, Mami?" Out of the corner of your eye, you can see Homura frowning at Mami, then at you.
"N-no," she says. "Never mind."
"Mami..." you say, reaching out to take her hand gently. "What is it?"
Her eyes follow your arm up to your face, her golden eyes huge and worried. "I-I. I'm sure y-you can do it, Sabrina, but..." Mami swallows hard. "A-are you... sure? That it's s-safe?"
[] Write-in
=====
Oh.
[x]...You're right. It's not worth taking risks with a friend over. Thanks, Mami...
[x]Ask Mami and Homura how they usually deal with people who've been witch kissed. Bringing Sayaka into timestop and immobilizing her should be enough, right?
-[x]Follow their advice. Stop Sayaka from hurting herself before going inside the barrier. Mami's ribbons should be more comfortable than grief.
[x]Go kill the Witch together after Sayaka's safe. No games, just bianca/grief-rend it once the team's in range.
Incidentally, going from canon, timestop should still work with leaving/going inside barriers from the "Kyoko and Homu run away from Oktavia" scene. Mami also just kind of left the jumper there on the ground in the second episode so...we should be okay if we wrap Sayaka up, kill the Witch, and come back for her.
[x]Ask Mami and Homura how they usually deal with people who've been witch kissed. Bringing Sayaka into timestop and immobilizing her should be enough, right?
-[x]Follow their advice. Stop Sayaka from hurting herself before going inside the barrier. Mami's ribbons should be more comfortable than grief.
[x]Go kill the Witch together after Sayaka's safe. No games, just bianca/grief-rend it once the team's in range.
Incidentally, going from canon, timestop should still work with leaving/going inside barriers from the "Kyoko and Homu run away from Oktavia" scene. Mami also just kind of left the jumper there on the ground in the second episode so...we should be okay if we wrap Sayaka up, kill the Witch, and come back for her.
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CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
- Location
- The former Rubber Capital of the World
[X] Ugolino
What exactly is the risk here? The Witch Kiss is basically a familiar. It's made of grief and we can destroy it. We've done that plenty of times before.
Note that letting it dissipate on its own after the witch dies is not necessarily safer. Who knows what that residual grief would do? IMHO it's safer to completely remove all traces of grief from Sayaka's system now while we can completely control it.
The question is: why is Mami asking? Is Firnagzen warning us that this is dangerous, or is he trying to tell us something about Mami?
Note that letting it dissipate on its own after the witch dies is not necessarily safer. Who knows what that residual grief would do? IMHO it's safer to completely remove all traces of grief from Sayaka's system now while we can completely control it.
The question is: why is Mami asking? Is Firnagzen warning us that this is dangerous, or is he trying to tell us something about Mami?
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There's a risk either way.
Obviously we shouldn't roll over Mami's feelings, but that means that we should actually discuss the issue rather than immediately stopping what we're doing just because she voiced a concern. Mami doesn't necessarily think that it is dangerous, she just wants to know that we're being careful.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I think it's worth looking at this as a chance to reinforce Mami's agency, more than anything else. Reversing a Witch Kiss is probably safe, but with Sayaka on the line now isn't necessarily the time for field testing. I'd want to be certain for that, and bowing to Mami's concern might help her. We can always test reversing a Witch Kiss later, on our own time.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We have to ask ourselves which is the greater risk (to Sayaka. I'm prioritizing the non-combatant). Killing a witch is the known way to free a human from a witch's kiss. It has been done many times, by both Mami and Homura. The risks to Sayaka would be that she does something to hurt herself while we are fighting the witch, (avoidable if we don't drop timestop), or that the witch's kiss isn't from the nearby witch.
The risk if we try to rip the kiss out of her is...well, it's unknown. It could do any number of things, up to killing her, depending how active grief (we'd be controlling it to disperse it, activating it for a moment) interacts with human flesh. The risk is great enough that I'm opposed to experimenting on a person we know. We might be able to recover from accidentally killing a stranger, but hurting/killing Sayaka? I'm pretty sure that's step one towards bad end.
The risk if we try to rip the kiss out of her is...well, it's unknown. It could do any number of things, up to killing her, depending how active grief (we'd be controlling it to disperse it, activating it for a moment) interacts with human flesh. The risk is great enough that I'm opposed to experimenting on a person we know. We might be able to recover from accidentally killing a stranger, but hurting/killing Sayaka? I'm pretty sure that's step one towards bad end.
[] Describe what what the Witch Kiss feels like to your senses
-[] If Mami's worried about you, you're only planning on pulling the construct out and dissolving it; no weird experimentation. If Mami's worried about side effects on Sayaka and would rather just tie her down somewhere while the witch is being dealt with, yield to her judgment.
If it wasn't grossly irresponsible, I'd say to stick Sayaka in a thick shell of grief and bring her in with us, so we can see how the Kiss dissolves when the originating witch dies. Maybe try to set up some kind of grief recording device, and hope it persists while we're inside the barrier?
-[] If Mami's worried about you, you're only planning on pulling the construct out and dissolving it; no weird experimentation. If Mami's worried about side effects on Sayaka and would rather just tie her down somewhere while the witch is being dealt with, yield to her judgment.
If it wasn't grossly irresponsible, I'd say to stick Sayaka in a thick shell of grief and bring her in with us, so we can see how the Kiss dissolves when the originating witch dies. Maybe try to set up some kind of grief recording device, and hope it persists while we're inside the barrier?
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
You know, I wonder if making a wish while you're dying gives you more or less power, as a magical girl?
...in hindsight I'm not sure how conducive this is to the current discussion.
So uh, well, it's worth considering also that anything involving grief and the manipulation of it is probably inherently unsafe. Moving it back and forth is one thing, but doing anything more witchy is just going to be its own miniature clusterfuck.
Personally, I think that we're probably fine. Worst case scenario, we have the magic to put Sayaka back together.
...in hindsight I'm not sure how conducive this is to the current discussion.
So uh, well, it's worth considering also that anything involving grief and the manipulation of it is probably inherently unsafe. Moving it back and forth is one thing, but doing anything more witchy is just going to be its own miniature clusterfuck.
Personally, I think that we're probably fine. Worst case scenario, we have the magic to put Sayaka back together.
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See, Mami already has been under a lot of stress from our constant testing of our Grief powers (like the familliar takeover testing, and the barrier). Let's not push it further, please. We don't have a precedent on what will happen, and we're also testing it on someeone we both know and important to us.
Metaflare
Funfact: I like funfacts.
says you
UnnamedDude
Still Alive
- Location
- In the Dark of the Night
Well, we've... kinda not been doing well on our social links here.
That is, Mami doesn't want anything more dangerous happening to Sabrina. Powerful she may be but omnipotent she is not. Sure, we have Grief powers, but Homura and Mami know that killing the Witch works whereas ... whatever we may do is not necessarily without risk, either to us or to Sayaka. What's worse, Homura can't really time-power her way out since she's not even sure if Sabrina will exist next time, and losing or injuring Sayaka would end badly.
We really don't want to add stress or trouble on our buddies unnecessarily.
I'm thinking we just follow their lead here. We have infinite time-stop so removing the Kiss immediately isn't a huge enough concern that we need to get desperate SCIENCE going.
That is, Mami doesn't want anything more dangerous happening to Sabrina. Powerful she may be but omnipotent she is not. Sure, we have Grief powers, but Homura and Mami know that killing the Witch works whereas ... whatever we may do is not necessarily without risk, either to us or to Sayaka. What's worse, Homura can't really time-power her way out since she's not even sure if Sabrina will exist next time, and losing or injuring Sayaka would end badly.
We really don't want to add stress or trouble on our buddies unnecessarily.
I'm thinking we just follow their lead here. We have infinite time-stop so removing the Kiss immediately isn't a huge enough concern that we need to get desperate SCIENCE going.
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
Agreed. C'mon @Ugolino , just because you're afraid of needles doesn't mean we can't do a little science. Think of it this way: you'll have a great story to tell @Muramasa later!
---
In all seriousness, if we're going to do the "agree with Mami" plan, the vote needs rephrasing. Something like "you know, I don't actually know if its safe, so maybe we should not do this right now since Sayaka's our friend"?
The best way to reinforce Mami's agency would be to have a proper discussion on the issue, not to immediately fold once she raises a possible concern.
From an in-story perspective, Mami is probably remembering the Familiar that we tried to take over two nights ago. She's probably worried that we will open ourselves up to a grief attack or something. However, this situation is different. We're not trying to talk to the familiar or take control of it, we're just trying to destroy it.
We should explain exactly what we can see about the witch kiss and what we intend to do about it (and how it's different from the previous situation), and we should then ask Mami (and Homura) if they still think that it's too dangerous. We still might decide not to attempt the operation, but that should be after a discussion, not before.
- Location
- ⇙
Yeah, I see no real reason to try this right now, when we can also deal with it the old fashioned way by just killing the witch.
We are kind of outvoted anyway going by Homura's and Mami's reactions.
I'm sure we could do it, but it will be better for Mami's peace of mind to not try something right now we haven't properly tested before, especially when a friend of us is directly involved.
We are kind of outvoted anyway going by Homura's and Mami's reactions.
I'm sure we could do it, but it will be better for Mami's peace of mind to not try something right now we haven't properly tested before, especially when a friend of us is directly involved.
A possible approach is to stay outside the barrier with Sayaka, while Mami and Homura dispose of the witch. This way, we can observe the witch kiss when it dissipates. Maybr use a grief deep scanner on it? Could provide some understanding on what happens, we get data, witch is dead, and Sayaka remains safe.
Cons to that is that while a Mami-Homura team up is a nightmare to fight, Mami isn't operating at 100% performance right now
Cons to that is that while a Mami-Homura team up is a nightmare to fight, Mami isn't operating at 100% performance right now
- Location
- England
[X] Ugolino.
If we don't even discuss the issue and fold at the first sign of concern, that's not healthy. Mami didn't even say that it was definitely a bad idea, she just asked if we were sure that it's safe. We did consider safety in the previous update and we came to the conclusion that it was safe. We don't want Mami to think that we were planning on reckless experimentation and were only stopped by her presence.
[x] Describe what what the Witch Kiss feels like to your senses
-[x] Describe how you were planning on removing it and how this would be different from the experiment with the Chicken Witch's Familiar.
-[x] If Mami (or Homura) is still worried, then don't remove the Kiss. Ask if we should just tie Sayaka down somewhere while the witch is being dealt with.
--[x] Armor up (Armor, Gauntlets, Wings, Harness), and go fight the witch as a team. This is not and ordinary witch fight. Play it cautiously. No games. Support Mami and Homura with your grief rending.
-[x] If they are satisfied with the safety, remove the Kiss.
--[x] See if Sayaka's okay.
--[x] Tell Sayaka she was witch kissed. Ask her what was the last thing she remembers.
--[x] Ask her if her parents usually turn in this early.
Edit: added Muramasa's suggestions about how to approach the witch.
Edit2: Added the contingency (from the previous vote) for what to do if Mami is satisfied that removing the Kiss is safe.
Edit3: New version in a later post
-[x] Describe how you were planning on removing it and how this would be different from the experiment with the Chicken Witch's Familiar.
-[x] If Mami (or Homura) is still worried, then don't remove the Kiss. Ask if we should just tie Sayaka down somewhere while the witch is being dealt with.
--[x] Armor up (Armor, Gauntlets, Wings, Harness), and go fight the witch as a team. This is not and ordinary witch fight. Play it cautiously. No games. Support Mami and Homura with your grief rending.
-[x] If they are satisfied with the safety, remove the Kiss.
--[x] See if Sayaka's okay.
--[x] Tell Sayaka she was witch kissed. Ask her what was the last thing she remembers.
--[x] Ask her if her parents usually turn in this early.
Edit: added Muramasa's suggestions about how to approach the witch.
Edit2: Added the contingency (from the previous vote) for what to do if Mami is satisfied that removing the Kiss is safe.
Edit3: New version in a later post
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