Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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Muramasa
Best Girl
[x] "It's probably safe but... no I can't say that for certain."
[x] "Right. Better to just take out the witch then."
[x] Um... in that case, Mami, could you make sure Sayaka doesn't hurt herself?"
[x] Go fight the witch as a team. This is not an ordinary witch fight. Play it cautiously. No games. Support Mami and Homura with your grief rending.
Removed what I felt was some redundancy. I also want a more cautious approach to this witch. Just dashing in with grief rends is potentially problematic.
[x] "Right. Better to just take out the witch then."
[x] Um... in that case, Mami, could you make sure Sayaka doesn't hurt herself?"
[x] Go fight the witch as a team. This is not an ordinary witch fight. Play it cautiously. No games. Support Mami and Homura with your grief rending.
Removed what I felt was some redundancy. I also want a more cautious approach to this witch. Just dashing in with grief rends is potentially problematic.
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Gadjo
Doka
We've come to the conclusion lots of things are safe and were wrong. Mami has every reason to be worried. I don't personally think there's a danger, but I think it's worth Mami's happiness to just do it her way.
We're in time stop. How could Sayaka get herself hurt?
Muramasa
Best Girl
We're just being extra cautious here. A friend's involved.
Just feels kind of pointless, like the witch kiss question. Not that it really matters anyway. It's harmless.
[X] Muramasa
Really feeling kind of irritated that we didn't just think to go for the Witch from the get go. It's just a much better idea safety and convenience wise. Plus, Mami and Homura's reactions really should have been predictable. Really hope that our inability to think things through doesn't get someone killed at this rate.
CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
- Location
- The former Rubber Capital of the World
[X] Muramasa
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
This was actually brought up and dismissed. IIRC, the reasoning was that by getting rid of the witch kiss and calming Sayaka down, we could figure out what happened and start planning how to deal with the threat before confronting the witch, ideally without ever dropping timestop.
Muramasa
Best Girl
The thought process was to get Sayaka out of harms way. We had reason to believe this wouldn't be a normal witch fight and we didn't want Sayaka caught up in it if things went south.
Mami doesn't want us to "do it her way". Mami wants us to be safe. If we don't even discuss the issue, then Mami will assume that we were just being stupidly reckless and she will worry that we will be stupidly reckless again the next time she isn't around to stop us. But if we actually take the time to discuss the reasons that we think that it is safe to operate on Sayaka, then Mami will be reassured that we actually did consider the possible danger and weren't just being stupidly reckless. She might still want us to hold off for now, but actually discussing the issue is more important than whether or not we actually try to remove the Kiss.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
[x] Mura.
Witch Kisses dissipating after a witch is defeated is PERFECTLY SAFE, boone. We've known this as early as fucking episode two when the concept was introduced. We are not fucking debating the virtues of performing field testing on our endangered unconscious friend around two freshly traumatized finger-on-the-trigger friends of ours in the oppressive, psychologically unsettling atmosphere of Time Stop (and sharing it with others in Homura's case), when it is objectively better for the mindsets and physical wellbeing of our friends to just GO WITH MAMI.
You won't be building up Mami's sense of agency by fucking arguing with her, you'll make her second-guess herself and cave in to our way like every other goddamn time she's contradicted us on fucking anything and we made a thing out of it. She is not in a proper state of mind to stand up to what Sabrina wants. This is pushing it for her as it is.
Jesus tapdancing ribbon-wearing meguca-saving Kaname Christ.
"Hitomi-chan?!" "Pretty cool, huh?"
Now let's calm down with some dank memes.
Witch Kisses dissipating after a witch is defeated is PERFECTLY SAFE, boone. We've known this as early as fucking episode two when the concept was introduced. We are not fucking debating the virtues of performing field testing on our endangered unconscious friend around two freshly traumatized finger-on-the-trigger friends of ours in the oppressive, psychologically unsettling atmosphere of Time Stop (and sharing it with others in Homura's case), when it is objectively better for the mindsets and physical wellbeing of our friends to just GO WITH MAMI.
You won't be building up Mami's sense of agency by fucking arguing with her, you'll make her second-guess herself and cave in to our way like every other goddamn time she's contradicted us on fucking anything and we made a thing out of it. She is not in a proper state of mind to stand up to what Sabrina wants. This is pushing it for her as it is.
Jesus tapdancing ribbon-wearing meguca-saving Kaname Christ.
"Hitomi-chan?!" "Pretty cool, huh?"
Now let's calm down with some dank memes.
If this is true, then there is no middle ground between letting Mami make all the decisions and making all the decisions ourselves.
And our reason for wanting to do it wasn't "cool thing we can try", it was to see if we can get information by asking Sayaka what happened before going in blind.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
That's not true. It's called shifting the gears gradually over time. Right now, Mami needs reassurance that we'll take her concerns about our safety seriously, and we aren't doing that when he argue with her about it this early on. When she feels mentally ready to be more assertive and more comfortable with contradicting us, we can move on to different phases where we can hold a discourse with Mami without making her wonder if she did something wrong and ruined our entire friendship.
Fixing Mami isn't going to be fun or convenient, you guys.
Fixing Mami isn't going to be fun or convenient, you guys.
The point is not to argue with Mami. I never said that. My point is that we should reassure Mami that we weren't being reckless so that she won't worry about us being reckless in the future. She probably still won't comfortable with it and then we won't remove the Witch Kiss. That's fine. My point is that I actually want to have some two-way communication here.
I agree that we need to take Mami's concerns seriously. That's why we should actually talk about them. If we just do what she says without discussing it (even though we actually think that it's safe), then we're simply patronizing her.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
The vote doesn't do it. We say that we think it is safe, but that Mami is right that we shouldn't take chances.
[X] Muramasa
Also, Ugo? This part of your vote -
Also, Ugo? This part of your vote -
- is redundant, as Homura has already told us what the normal procedure is (murderise the witch, victims go back to normal).
There's not enough discussion in this one line to handle the underlying issue. Mami has seen most of our mistakes: overfilling Hildegarde, trying to take over the Familiar, spacing out without warning while creating Little Mitakihara. She is worried that we're reckless and that our experiments will endanger us. If we say that we thought that this was safe (without elaborating on why) but we're not going to do it because Mami was worried, then that just proves her point about us being reckless and will make her continue to worry.
The fact is that we were not being reckless here - we gave careful thought to the dangers involved and decided that it was safe. Similarly, in the past we have carefully considered the dangers involved and have rejected (or postponed) a lot of potential experiments due to the danger involved. The actual problems have primarily been dangers that seemed innocuous at the time (i.e. the type of dangers that would happen no matter how careful we are).
We need to actually explain our thought processes to show why we thought it was safe, otherwise Mami will worry needlessly.
Muramasa
Best Girl
I disagree. I'm not convinced we aren't being reckless. We can't say for sure that removing witch kisses are safe. Mami is correct, even if her underlying reason is for our safety rather then Sayaka's.
Also vote reworded slightly.
Also vote reworded slightly.
- Location
- South Africa
I didn't believe it was safe in the first place (though I was convinced that it was unlikely that something completely terrible would happen before we could stop it, which was why I went with the bandwagon), so yes, I think we were being reckless.
Can we consult Homura on how to most safely deal with this witch? Maybe once in the barrier so we don't hint the future-secret, but she's the one who's fought it before and knows how best to use time stop against it.
Is there a risk? Of course there is, because it's something we haven't done before. But practically everything we do has risk. Yesterday, we considered the possible risk of saving Sayaka and considered our past experiences of destroying familiars and controlling grief (particularly the notes from earlier in the story where we had looked at Witch Kisses) and decided that the risk was minimal and that the benefits of saving Sayaka sooner and finding out what she knew outweighed the risks. This was a considered choice, not a thoughtless decision:
Our actions didn't suddenly become reckless just because Mami spoke up. We do need to acknowledge Mami's concern because it is a valid concern (just as Sereg's concern was valid yesterday), but we ought to reassure Mami that we did carefully consider the risks, because our (seemingly) reckless behavior is what Mami is really worried about in the long term.
- Location
- South Africa
We can tell Mami that we did consider the risk at first, but that only after she voiced it herself did we decide that yes, she was right, it was a valid point.