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You know, it's funny that you guys brought up Oriko's visions, because I have something that should be brought to your attention. You know how Oriko's visions drain her Soul Gem over time and she can't control them? You know how physically weak and useless in combat she is?

Yeah, that's actually not supposed to happen. Oriko can indeed take control of her powers and not be constantly making random predictions. In fact, she does just this in Symmetry Diamond. How? Well, spoilers: She rescues Kirika, using her powers in full-force for the first time (did you know those little orbs can shoot laser beams?).

Oriko's problem in Diamond is that her Wish, and indeed, her entire personality, is based around making her own way in the world. She wants agency, she wants to be a savior, she wants to experience the meaning of her life. But instead, she sits on the sidelines and has her girlfriend do all the work; she can't even help her out because that'd waste even more power. At least she gets to give orders... that's something, right?

Much like Kyouko, the flaw in her power extends from a mental block. The only way we are going to fix her is if we have her out there and doing stuff and mattering. That is what she wants to do; it is the nature of her Wish and her personality, and making her matter besides being mission control is the only way she's ever going to be fixed.

So, what is she currently doing, SV?
 
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Ugolino said:
Repairing her mind and finding out the cause- seriously, there's still a potential problem there if the situation's more complicated than we thought and we have a Suzune-style memory rewrite on our hands- seems like a better way to end it than just ignoring it and hoping for the best.
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Quite apart from practical considerations, Akiko is a meguca. She has a problem. Y'all know what we do when we see a meguca with a problem.
 
You know, you guys could always just include her more on our plans and actually ask for her input and advice beyond just using her as a glorified fortune teller. Because we're probably not going to be to convince the others to let her free for a while.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
Yeah, "let's traumatize people preemptively so they can't be traumatized later" is a pretty shit idea when applied to the main cast, and only becomes shittier when applied to people we barely know with unknown hangups and triggers.
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The problem with the witchbomb is that telling people about it is not dropping the bomb but rather an attempt to disarm a bomb which has already been dropped. It's important to be careful to do it in the right way and at the right time because if we fail, then boom. But we can't just not tell people because then the boom is guaranteed.

Mister Bad Guy said:
You know, it's funny that you guys brought up Oriko's visions, because I have something that should be brought to your attention. You know how Oriko's visions drain her Soul Gem over time and she can't control them? You know how physically weak and useless in combat she is?

Yeah, that's actually not supposed to happen. Oriko can indeed take control of her powers and not be constantly making random predictions. In fact, she does just this in Symmetry Diamond. How? Well, spoilers: She rescues Kirika, using her powers in full-force for the first time (did you know those little orbs can shoot laser beams?).

Oriko's problem in Diamond is that her Wish, and indeed, her entire personality, is based around making her own way in the world. She wants agency, she wants to be a savior, she wants to experience the meaning of her life. But instead, she sits on the sidelines and has her girlfriend do all the work; she can't even help her out because that'd waste even more power. At least she gets to give orders... that's something, right?

Much like Kyouko, the flaw in her power extends from a mental block. The only way we are going to fix her is if we have her out there and doing stuff and mattering. That is what she wants to do; it is the nature of her Wish and her personality, and making her matter besides being mission control is the only way she's ever going to be fixed.

So, what is she currently doing, SV?
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She's going to help us save the world by figuring out how to mass-cleanse meguca and dewitch grief seeds...we probably ought to let her know about those plans, shouldn't we?
 
I do like the idea of having her help us in the field directly, but it's all a matter of convincing Homura. If you guys have any ideas for convincing Homura, other than just asking from time to time, then that's what we should focus on first.
 
Gadjo said:
I do like the idea of having her help us in the field directly, but it's all a matter of convincing Homura. If you guys have any ideas for convincing Homura, other than just asking from time to time, then that's what we should focus on first.
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Well, we know Mister Bad Guy's pitch isn't the way to go. All Homura's going to hear from that is "being proactive makes her even more dangerous".

Maybe get Madoka on our side in a transparent attempt at manipulation?
 
Gadjo said:
I do like the idea of having her help us in the field directly, but it's all a matter of convincing Homura. If you guys have any ideas for convincing Homura, other than just asking from time to time, then that's what we should focus on first.
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If we first win over Mami (which shouldn't be too difficult, considering her contribution to the Sendai debacle), and then try to find a way to throw Oriko at any problems that crop up (she lacks Kirika's sense of fun, so probably not literally), I think there's a reasonable chance Homura'll go along with it fairly soon.
 
Torgamous said:
Well, we know Mister Bad Guy's pitch isn't the way to go. All Homura's going to hear from that is "being proactive makes her even more dangerous".

Maybe get Madoka on our side in a transparent attempt at manipulation?
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I don't think MBG was proposing having her in the field right now, because we still haven't negotiated her release from house arrest. So to help Oriko feel worthwhile, we'll need to help the others forgive Oriko, first.
 
Mister Bad Guy said:
You know, it's funny that you guys brought up Oriko's visions, because I have something that should be brought to your attention. You know how Oriko's visions drain her Soul Gem over time and she can't control them? You know how physically weak and useless in combat she is?

Yeah, that's actually not supposed to happen. Oriko can indeed take control of her powers and not be constantly making random predictions. In fact, she does just this in Symmetry Diamond. How? Well, spoilers: She rescues Kirika, using her powers in full-force for the first time (did you know those little orbs can shoot laser beams?).

Oriko's problem in Diamond is that her Wish, and indeed, her entire personality, is based around making her own way in the world. She wants agency, she wants to be a savior, she wants to experience the meaning of her life. But instead, she sits on the sidelines and has her girlfriend do all the work; she can't even help her out because that'd waste even more power. At least she gets to give orders... that's something, right?

Much like Kyouko, the flaw in her power extends from a mental block. The only way we are going to fix her is if we have her out there and doing stuff and mattering. That is what she wants to do; it is the nature of her Wish and her personality, and making her matter besides being mission control is the only way she's ever going to be fixed.

So, what is she currently doing, SV?
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*grins and clicks his Confractum pen*
 
Gadjo said:
I don't think MBG was proposing having her in the field right now, because we still haven't negotiated her release from house arrest. So to help Oriko feel worthwhile, we'll need to help the others forgive Oriko, first.
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I'm not pitching anything. I know how this Quest ends; I can't really make any true decisions on my own. I'm just saying this because Sabrina is supposed to have knowledge of all canon events, and it doesn't seem like the thread is aware of those events in particular.
 
Mister Bad Guy said:
I'm not pitching anything. I know how this Quest ends; I can't really make any true decisions on my own. I'm just saying this because Sabrina is supposed to have knowledge of all canon events, and it doesn't seem like the thread is aware of those events in particular.
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Hm. On that knowledge, maybe we should bring her along for a few away missions while we get her released from house arrest.
 
She's not at symmetry diamond level of no control though.

But if you want to help her, step one is to ask her what she wants. Not what she thinks will happen, what she actually desires. Then work with her to help her get that.



Lifting house arrest is a thing we're already committed to. And while it's not easy, we should ask and give reasons, and come back to it later when we're refused. We may want to take Homura next time we visit, because while it will be tense, we need to normalize Oriko in her mind as a person rather than a murderer.

Anyway, just a few thoughts on the subject.
 
Mister Bad Guy said:
I'm not pitching anything. I know how this Quest ends; I can't really make any true decisions on my own. I'm just saying this because Sabrina is supposed to have knowledge of all canon events, and it doesn't seem like the thread is aware of those events in particular.
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Mister Bad Guy said:
I know how this Quest ends;
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@Mister Bad Guy confirmed for time traveler.

How long have you secretly been Homura?
 
We could bring it up to Homura that we have more experience with Oriko via meta knowledge than she does with one interaction. We can also make the point that the Oriko she hates is a different Oriko than the one we face. And we can also make the point Oriko has trouble betraying people she knows, when they're no longer vague pieces she has a hard time dealing with them.
 
ehhhhhhhhhh first point will backfire since all she cares about is that she killed Madoka, second point didn't really work when we tried it before, and third...while probably true, what are you basing that on?
 
I think the most salient point to make to Homura as of right now anyway is one of practicality. We are relying on O&K's goodwill and our ability to track them down and end them for them to stay in one place right now. Relaxing house arrest to the point where they can shop for groceries, attend school, or visit their families does nothing to change that. If they want to run away, or to cause a one-time disruption, they can do that regardless of how strict the house arrest is, and we can still track them down and secure them more permanently if they do. Basically, we want them secure without needing to babysit them, and that means relaxing the house arrest to the point where everyday, non-MG things, are possible.

Then we take small steps in more freedoms or treating them as allies rather than enemies to be watched, and she'll warm up slowly. But baby steps first.
 
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