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They happen, but keeping that under control is one of the primary tasks of the hill farmers. Depending on the weather, them preventing erosion and landslides can be considered a higher priority than actually farming.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
They happen, but keeping that under control is one of the primary tasks of the hill farmers. Depending on the weather, them preventing erosion and landslides can be considered a higher priority than actually farming.
- Location
- Hell
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
Tbh, storm-damage reduction sounds reasonable and if we don't mind the shittier ships in the short term it won't matter that much. Forest dev will synergize somewhat with expanding fishing, due to the increased # of ships we'd be building. Low quality ones, but fishing boats aren't high enough to need better quality wood.
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- Location
- United States
The reduction in damage from storms would be very significant, not to mention easy transportation of wood to the docks. Having to transport wood from the valley would be pretty difficult if we're gonna start building lots and lots of ships down the line. In the early era ships that are build from poor wood would be fine, but we don't have easy transportation methods for the quality wood in the valley, nor do we have the developed shipbuilding skills to take advantage of the quality wood to make awesome ships - yet.
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- Hell
As mentioned before, the forest is an integral part of our farming as it both offering different crops, how it assists in irrigation and controls erosion. It is also already one of the options
So yeah
Actually we already plan to fix the transportation problem. Improve Trail would allow us to use carts to transport material and that would allow us to bring the Seasoned Wood(once we extend forest in the hills) to the coast.
Forests don't really help against sea storms...
- Location
- United States
Yes they do. Forests act as a natural buffer against aggressive winds (which the fishing village has had problems with in the past). Taking away the forest surrounding the fishing village would make it more susceptible to storm damage.
The difference with dams is that you cannot just build a dam like that. A large dam has to enclose a large amount of water, leveraging local geography. Basically, you find a part of the geography where water passes through a chokepoint and wall that off. Linking up smaller dams requires even more architectural skill and construction effort so that it doesn't clog and build up past the ability of each smaller dam to hold.
There's a reason RL reservoirs of significant size are generally single point: a failed dam upstream would otherwise hit the next dam with twice as much water as it's designed to hold, which would cause the one after that to tank thrice as much water.
The engineering challenge is much different from irrigation ponds. Linked pools do not increase safety. They decrease it.
Can't be helped. They're traveling family units, because traders must be self contained groups that are willing to travel long distance with just each other.
Uh, main points here:
-We hate the lowlanders because of their agricultural practices destroying the land.
-We have never actually fought the lowlanders. Ever.
Driving them out simply reinforces that they should treat our area like their old place. Send warriors to kill everyone living there and take the rest as slaves.
Okay, you're thinking modern canals here. No wonder we have a gap. Our canals are stone bordered, but we do not nearly have the resources to pave the whole bottom.
So where the canal runs over slopes...well, it'd be interesting to see the whole thing SLIDE sideways, sidings and all.
Also, the dam should be further upriver than the canal. Ground suitable for a canal needs to be relatively flat, while a dam requires hills.
Finally...you don't 'clear' a canal like that.
Uh...you know our farming technology is long game right? Like, two whole generations of increased labor investment before you see any returns. Tree growth takes 20-30 years. Soil treatment is a 100+ year course.
The only part they can use immediately is irrigation, but they don't have the masons and carpenters to do it with.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
I think you're rly underestimating how long the seasoned wood needed for boat-building is, and how good the trail we develop will be for transporting that wood.
Also, the forest is an integral part of our farming, yeah, but that's for hills, where it stops water flow downwards or whatever. Also, a) it isn't a thick enough to block winds and storms that great, b) we probably don't actually have a great number of farms near the coast, or at least they've never been mentioned whereas fishing as a food thing was, c) we want to protect more land from the storm than just that small amount of it that we farm on.
I imagine ourselves as some sort of tsundere civilization and other nega-verse reaction to us.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
0 experience building a canal, here. You could also just take it as us attaching floaty things to rocks and letting water flow so it lifts them up or something, if you want. Idk why we would build a canal on the slope perpendicular to it, tbh. Building it in a valley makes more sense. But assuming that we do, I don't think the amount of water that would be pressing against the side of the canal would be tons, or at least that it would be anywhere near the same amount as the dam. We'd also probably dig it more down and into the side, if we were worried, than we'd be able to do with the dam. Erosion/lowering ground on the side would be a major issue, I guess. But that still doesn't really explain why anyone would build a canal perpendicular to the slope while expecting it to hold tons of weight while not just digging it really really deep, to the point of cutting into the bedrock of that hill.
Friction would still apply to walls the on the side, regardless, in a way that the dam isn't affected by except where the water is flowing over it.
So the dam needs to be upriver of the canal? How about being upriver on the same river that feeds the canal? Maybe make an improved channel to it, to?
We're upriver from these guys man. They're downriver.
And the update itself says the disease didn't SPREAD across everyone like a waterbourne disease, it HOPPED, from family to family with no interactions.
Yeah, landslides are devastating.
Uh...as in, you cannot use the same construction techniques with the coastal woods.
It synergizes with expanding fishing because coastal forests help ensure calmer waters with more nutrients via slowed runoff, which means bigger fish populations.
They have very good boats for their material, but quantity is less than quality here.
Actually provable for A, since it doesn't take a big forest to sap the force of a storm from devastating to just harsh.
It also weakens the storm rolling inland from sea.[/b]
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- Hell
Except we wouldn't be clearing the trees for the farms, that's not how our agriculture works. We would be using it all together in harmony. Fair poin about the weather, we wouldn't really be expanding the forests.
If it really is that difficult to build ships I find it more likely for it to be a super project and require those projects anyway.
Except I'm not saying to link up smaller dams, that isn't what the project does. I'm talking about the slow improvement of a small crude dam into a larger one. Nothing about building more than one
To be honest. I think this whole argument is premature anyway. As you've mentioned we still have a ways to go before we start either the Great Dam or Grand Canal
You accidentally bolded all your text there, makes you sound super salty.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
I honestly have no idea if the actual description says it synergizes or not, but I agree that that's another way it synergizes. I a) am not also an expert shipwright in addition to my canal building expertise and b) feel it unlikely that the different construction techniques will matter, considering that these fisher folk have literally been building the boats with coastal wood this whole while. When we start building bigger ships, using interior woods, it will matter.
Is the A comment supporting or opposing my comment? I didn't really understand. I also meant thick as in dense, more than "big." Since I assume that the forests we use to support our farms aren't particularly dense ones. It's always good to have it big, too, though. Would coasts be better or worse for farming? (More rain, possibly, but the hills make rain anyways. Possibly flatter land, but saltier and maybe marshier and sandier. Idk about the rest of any issues.)
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
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- He/They
[X] Disturbing the dead
[X] Sending experts to get them farming correctly (Cannot be taken if blame is placed on the settlers)
[X] Sending experts to get them farming correctly (Cannot be taken if blame is placed on the settlers)
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I don't think that it's difficult to build ships, though it may be difficult to build a lot of them. It's just that when we're building larger ships we'd get synergistic effects from inland forests transported to the coast as long, largely untouched trunks. At the very least, the keel of the ship is more or less required to be a single piece, and the length of it determines the length of the ship. The other pieces, like the curve of the hull, can be cut but are sometimes just curved single pieces.
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- Hell
Veekie is of the mind of dead people, can't say I disagree.
He's in support, Forests help reduce storm ferocity as it moves inland. So it helps them if they don't live right by the coast, which they shouldn't anyway.
Absolutely and having proper roads would help us bring them to the coast, as that sort of wood is only available inland.
Uh...okay, the only thing sensical to answer to...
Its not about horizontal load. Vertical load on the ground when you move water over ground which previously never carried water. Soil compressed on slight slopes you can cut a lesser ditch across will collapse when you do the same for a canal.
And you will have to cut through slopes, because otherwise its going to be where the river already is. You don't cut down to bedrock because it takes even crazier levels of effort than the canal already takes.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
Having proper roads would mean super wide, straight ones for like the 30ft+ trunks tho. I just feel that we'd finish the rad ships when we finish the canal, and that therefore coastal woods are a defensible proposition as we expand fishing with inferior boats. Or something. idk. I support expanding forests in both locations just because I'm a treehugger.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
1. tree's on land is not going to do anything to storms out on the water.
2. the canal will let us use wood inland to make better ships
3. roads are useful.
- Location
- United States
I'm pretty sure we'd still be cutting down lots of the forest for farm plots, there would just be trees incorporated into the plots as well (but not as many trees as before). Also, we might be able to expand our buildings into the coast, so i'm not sure if expanding farms there will be the best idea in the long run. Not to mention we could just take step farms and boost our econ.
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- He/Him
Will do next time.
I imagine ourselves as some sort of tsundere civilization and other nega-verse reaction to us.
Ehhhh... you may or may not see, depending on choices.
- Location
- United States
You make a good point on the Canal of doom (trade mark pending). Once we build it our production of ships would be easily made with quality woods from the valley. Also, it might open up the possibility of having an Assembly Line for ship building.
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- Hell
They can already build shoddy boats, if we want proper seafaring vessels we need inland wood.