I do not know why you assume we would have gotten 3-5 turns of peace from them, especially since, ultimately, it was our actions that let the Nomads break into the ST core. It's equally likely that we would have gotten a share of the spoils and a look inside the ST's sacred cave. My opinion is that we received a cessation of attacks out of pity from the nomads and necessity from AN.
If people end up being truly set on a diplomatic mission to go bribe the nomads to leave us alone, I would vote to instead spend not spend the econ on a trade mission and just do the forest and expand warriors. It's simply a better choice.
The DP won't be going away any time soon, yes. Especially since they're most likely mopping up WC remnants faster than the HK can, thus beating them in population as well as in military and economic prowess.
It was only by us failing our rolls that they got in, not that it was our plan in the first place. If we had taken the axe and given it to the TH, then their leader would've actually liked us and given us more than the bare minimum peace deal.
At this point, I just want to get more info from AN and/or wait for the update.
As it is, i'm sick of speculating into the night on what actions we should or shouldn't take if we do or don't have enough of whatever stat.
It was more of a point against everyone getting militia training. But you do have a point on us not seeing her doing much other stuff other than warrior duties. But there might be parts AN didn't add because, who wants to hear about the time she helped the caravan set up camp or helping an elder shaman into the shrine. There might be things happening that we don't see, and unless you can point me to a post that explicitly states we have full time warriors, i would prefer an answer from AN himself.
It is an option in Trade Mission. If you want to dispute our ability to trade with them for the reasons you stated, get a quote from AN, because I doubt it'd be an option if we had no way of accomplishing a satisfactory amount of trade with them.
As for the rest, I'm going to cease arguing with you. You're obviously not going to back down regardless of whether or not I prove the action's superiority/viability.
If we trade with them for long enough (over multiple generations), the Traders will have established a sufficient amount of ties of marriage with the Thunder Horses, they'll be more hesitant to raid us due the family connections.
Hey wait a minute! I think I know how we can take advantage of this!
If we trade with them for long enough (over multiple generations), the Traders will have established a sufficient amount of ties of marriage with the Thunder Horses, they'll be more hesitant to raid us due the family connections.
It helps that we adopted a lot of former nomads into our culture last turn, though keep in mind that as Nomads lack writing or elaborate record keeping, you need ongoing ties rather than refugee infusions to provide enough marriages, as they'd lose track after a number of generations.
Trade missions with the nomads probably are the best way to solve them long term, though it is actually pretty risky as they may decide we are worth raiding. Our heroic diplomacy leader is probably up to the task, though. The thing we have to make sure to do is improve our military so that, if it falls out after our next deal, we still have enough manpower to defend.
A combination of being a hard target and willing to trade is what keeps nomads from bothering to attack you. We've got the terrain for a hard target, but not the military.
That said, still waiting to see what the update will bring.
The Nomads do not have the advanced cart design technology. They got someone else to make it for them as a one off artifact.
Same way they got us to rune the axe. Basically for their Hero it was a fetch quest.
We could probably get the tech if we make trade contact with that civ. The Nomads simply lack the wood supply to do much refining of woodworking technologies.
We could probably get the tech if we make trade contact with that civ. The Nomads simply lack the wood supply to do much refining of woodworking technologies.
In reference to why we didn't just trade for it from the Nomads. We already have the woodworking skill to figure it out, especially when our sailboats already use planks(funny thought is that building sailboats might also help breakthrough the jointing techniques).
Our main weakness isn't that our cavalry isn't good enough, but more that we don't have enough warriors, period.
The Plank Cart's main advantage over the Solid Cart is that it's lighter to make, so it has a higher top speed, and it has higher clearance, so it's better at going through shallow mud without the axles clogging, and uses less wood, so it's easier to replace(Plank carts can actually carry spare wheels to fit if something breaks, solid carts have to replace the entire wheel and axle set). This makes it more powerful at chasing Nomad raiders where mobility is the first concern, but not more effective at repelling massed infantry attacks, if they had any cavalry to back them up at all.
It's a nice advantage, but doesn't really do anything about having weaker and fewer warriors overall of course. It's probably most useful after a major increase in the number of archers, so we can start rolling for chariot archers(who ARE decisively stronger as harassment for a few generations at least until the nomads break into horse archers via selective breeding and everyone is fucked until the shieldwall and heavy infantry is invented, but are also elite specialist troops, who need line infantry to back them up)
Shieldwalls and heavy infantry do jack and shit when it comes to fighting against horse archers. Their shields and heavy armour don't make them invincible, it just makes them slower to die. The way to defeat horse archers is with your own horse archers or with massed foot archers.
They don't have to be. We have a sufficiently large woodworking industry thanks to Sacred Forest that instead of 10 cart warriors and 90 foot warriors, we can have 100 cart warriors. It'll be expensive - very expensive - but it's possible. If nothing else just look at the nomads, whose warriors are all cart warriors despite having far less wood than us.
The issue is that mounted archers tend to come with shock cavalry as well (just look at the parthians) which is what you need heavy infantry to protect the archers from.
Shieldwalls and heavy infantry do jack and shit when it comes to fighting against horse archers. Their shields and heavy armour don't make them invincible, it just makes them slower to die. The way to defeat horse archers is with your own horse archers or with massed foot archers.
Shieldwalls and heavy infantry work...in conjunction with supporting cavalry and archers. Think of them as a mobile wall that allows your own cavalry to channel them and which allows your archers to fire without fear of being overrun. Arrows generally have poor DPS, but excellent shock value, but most professional forces can resist a few shocks.
Monotype armies don't work except for very brief periods. Massed foot archers require infantry or pike screens for them to get volleys off rather than the nomads simply riding them down before they get many volleys off. Heavy cavalry works on nearly everything, but are so expensive they can't be present except in very small quantities
They don't have to be. We have a sufficiently large woodworking industry thanks to Sacred Forest that instead of 10 cart warriors and 90 foot warriors, we can have 100 cart warriors. It'll be expensive - very expensive - but it's possible. If nothing else just look at the nomads, whose warriors are all cart warriors despite having far less wood than us.
Not quite. Chariot archers require extremely good archers to be able to sight and fire from an unstable platform effectively, trained to work in concert with their drivers so they can synch their moving and shooting. You cannot make them standard troops because there's just not that many talented archers.
In terms of special unit types:
-Light infantry is the base. Anyone can make them.
-Archers are light infantry rigged up with powerful bows, due to our more advanced woodworking. We deploy them mixed with our regular warriors as supporting fire. Relatively cheap to field in bulk, but takes ass ages to train and requires a medium infantry screen to avoid hard to replace losses.
-Medium infantry is limited by production methods. Anyone can learn to fight with armor, shields and heavy weapons, the main limitation is your ability to manufacture them. We'd probably be better than the Dead Priests at this, as we can produce wicker armor and shields at far lower prices...if only we had enough men to equip with them to make it feasible. At our current troop counts, the ability to slog versus the ability to run away quickly, tilts in favor of running away.
-Chariot Warriors are a semi-elite unit, as they cost significant amounts of resources to maintain their vehicles(each warrior effectively occupies 2 more people than normal warriors for the upkeep of their chariots and horses, potentially with one more dedicated driver so they can deploy and escape swiftly, as unlike motorcycles, horses tend to run away if you leave them be while you fight some guys before getting back in, and prior to developing long slashing swords/polearms, which requires worked bronze, drive by attacks don't work), and are otherwise motorized light or medium infantry. With Demon Clubs, we're likely leaning Medium infantry using the chariots. Skill at driving chariots is useful, but not essential, anyone can learn it. And of course, off their favored terrain chariot warriors are just regular warriors.
-Chariot Archers are a full on elite unit, as it takes great amounts of talent, of which the only option to expand is to increase the number of archers trained, and a lot of support crew to maintain vehicle, driver, mounts and bows. They're basically the era's fighter jets, they deliver a nasty ass shock and then are out of the line of fire. Off their favored terrain, they're just regular archers.
-Blackbirds are a full on elite unit, as it takes a particular kind of talent to be good at both fighting, stealth, forestry as well as applied drugs and camouflage. As with today's special forces you can't expand training easily without lowering standards or greatly increasing overall military recruitment to identify talents. Applications are limited as well, generally scouts are a static force multiplier or enemy elite remover, adding lots and lots of scouts don't improve your ability to win.
It was more of a point against everyone getting militia training. But you do have a point on us not seeing her doing much other stuff other than warrior duties. But there might be parts AN didn't add because, who wants to hear about the time she helped the caravan set up camp or helping an elder shaman into the shrine. There might be things happening that we don't see, and unless you can point me to a post that explicitly states we have full time warriors, i would prefer an answer from AN himself.
[X] Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)
[X] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[X] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom, alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
Twythulmyn spread the ritual handful of dirt upon Bynwyn's grave as part of the funerary rites that also doubled as part of the transition ritual for the office of High Chief - now 'King'. There had been arguments over whether to use a foreign word or a reference to the legendary High Chiefs or spirits of the past, and thus far the argument had settled on 'King', mostly due to a fear that attempting to take the mantle of figures more spirit than human was somehow and act of hubris. Personally Twythulmyn didn't care, but he was ever the diplomat and thus didn't voice such things out loud, but instead encouraged continued polite discussion among those who really cared.
Letting water be poured over his hands to wash away the remains of the earth and to sprinkle down upon the shroud wrapped figure within the grave, Twythulmyn considered the changes that the great chief had wrought. While the mystical work and the issue with the nomads and Spirit Talkers had been the obvious ones, Twythulmyn had been deeply involved in some of the more long term effects that few would probably ever understand. Namely, just how much corruption Bynwyn had no idea was going on under his nose. His own personal exploit of 'technically' getting authorization for the trade mission was just one piece of a larger whole of important people 'diverting' resources to their own benefit. The decision in his waning years to grant further responsibility to the local chiefs was honestly the only way things could have happened in the long run, the chiefs were accumulating power anyway so the proposal to change things just meant that the king would have a way to keep the reins on even as they grew stronger.
Still, while Twythulmyn knew that to some extent he didn't have the skill to root out all of the corruption, there were a few people he made sure to smile extra long at who he suspected would discover a number of 'errors' in their tallies. The damage had already been done had been done, but hopefully he could keep the worst of it under control.
Ancient Kingdom (Elective) -> Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elective)
While a single individual controls overall power, distances and complexity mandate the delegation to other highly empowered individuals. While very effective, conflict between the king and governors can lead to serious problems. In this variant the king is elected by and from the governors
Pros: Access to additional infrastructure projects, bonus to collective action, small number of autonomous actions
Cons: Beware the ambitions of the governors...
Legacy Bonus:
+1 Hierarchy Tolerance
Speaking of damage, his mind turned to the south. Where the nomads in the north were probably going to be quiet for a while further before something would set them off and the new ships were enabling trade that they couldn't attack, the south remained a mess. The Dead Priests had, unfortunately, learned a modicum of subtlety and moderation for a group of people who had a wall of skulls around their main city. Bynwyn had sort of distantly understood what was happening, but since becoming heir Twythulmyn had better access to reports and accounts and could understand what was going on better. Simply put, the Dead Priests were offering a better deal than the Highland Kingdom, since even if you had to send sacrifices to feed the monstrous appetites of their spirits and got caught up in their conflicts, but bending knee to them was still preferable for most to the anarchy of the lowlands - even if half the anarchy was fueled by the Dead Priests. It was hard to tell if the Western Confederacy would have been able to survive the pressures - possibly with more help they might have - but while the new Highland Kingdom definitely could withstand the Dead Priests in their own territory, they were not as amicable to those outside that territory.
His hands now dry, Twythulmyn accepted the cloak of office. It was time to get started.
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Build War Carts - This design has completely supplanted use of the older war wagons, but more of them could be useful on flat lands. Further work might also work out how to make the improved version used by Wendtikwos
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial, has chance to improve design
Enforce Authority - The power of the king is not to be questioned, and the army can be used to demonstrate that
* S: -1 to 0 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: -1 to 0 Stability, lower odds of Stability loss, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and can help teach newcomers the ways of the People, so perhaps another festival might be of use?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability 2
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* 4 uses remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 2 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redcoast (can go north or south), blue stone quarry within Sacred Forest
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max 3 Stability; modified by Diplomacy skill
Restoration of Harmony - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. [Harmony+Sacred War] Kicker: Can increase Stability to 3
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sacred Warriors - The Blackbirds have proven effective scouts, spies, and killers, but are there other ways to combine the knowledge of spirits with the skills of a warrior?
* S: -2 Mysticism, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
* M: -2 Mysticism, +1 Martial, gain new type of elite spiritual warrior
Sailing Mission - The new boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - High Chief Hewthyun responded quite well to the methods the shamans applied, perhaps more widespread application of these methods might have additional benefits?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
The Garden - The canal has greatly expanded the People's knowledge of controlling and directing water. A smaller but more personal project has been proposed to improve Valleyhome [Shapers] [King] (3-6? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? [Shapers][King] (4-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action) Scourge Warding - It has been discovered that there is a way to ward people from the scourging disease, but wide scale implementation will be exceedingly daunting. [King] [Harmony] [Protective] (4/4 Econ, 6/7 Mysticism)
Currently actively working on the Scourge Warding megaproject, occupying the [Main] action slot, leaving two [Secondary] actions. Scourge Warding completes this turn. If Diplo or Econ above 6 and there is no megaproject active local chiefs are able to select actions that may consume these resources
[] Art Patronage
[] Black Soil
[] Build Wall
[] Build War Carts
[] Enforce Authority
[] Establish Annual Festival
[] Expand Economy
[] Expand Forests
[] Expand Holy Sites
[] Expand Snail Cultivation
[] Expand Warriors
[] More Blackbirds
[] More Boats
[] New Settlement
[] New Trails
[] Proclaim Glory
[] Restoration of Harmony
[] Sacred Warriors
[] Sailing Mission
[] Study Forests
[] Study Health
[] Survey Lands
[] Trade Mission
-Target Options: Highland Kingdom, Thunder Horses, Metal Miners, Coastal Minors, Lowland Minors, Into the Wild
[] War Mission
-Target Options: Dead Priests,
Provinces for Projects: Valleyhome, Redshore, Stonepen, Sacred Forest
Major Holy Sites: Rainbow Trail, Sacred Forest, Holy Sea, Horse Valley
AN: If the numbers seem different from things I have said or implied in the past, that is simply due to changing circumstances...
EDIT: Tags should now be un-borked
Another Edit: Thanks to @colah for making a much more sensible way of organizing Important projects
