Incidentally, I've skipped a lot of conversation: what was the opinion on getting ANOTHER Hero tier character, just as the last one is kicking the bucket? Any revelations I missed?
I'm stupidly optimistic that it would evolve a trait. Emphasis on stupidly there.

Other than that, we will have lesser polities taking their own actions with the large expansion vote and maining 'New Trails' will quite possibly get us 2 centralization if we have better tools.

At least that's what I've taken away from this.
 
I find it hilarious how people bemoaned that expand warriors and such wouldn't be optimal with Twythulmyn and that it would force us to once delay those projects when they can just not vote for him.

I mean really, everyone is voting for the Diplo Hero, doesn't that mean everyone wants to do Diplomatic actions? Otherwise why bother?

If we really want to focus on other things, just go for the regular High Chief.

He will likely be around for two turns according to AN, and we can still do secondary diplo actions the first turn or buff our econ so we can focus on it during our second turn. Also hero shiny!:ogles:
 
Eh, I will most likely push for some combination of below, depending on the situation.

[Main] Restore Harmony/New Trails
[Secondary] New Trails/Trade Mission
[Secondary] Survey Land/Expand Warriors
 
I don't see that happening.

Full time, though everyone is trained for militia duty
See the hero lasting or us doing diplo as a secondary or us doing econ actions this turn then a diplo?

AN specifically said the hero will have a two turn natural lifespan, so him dying depends on if we send him out to die or not.

Huh? Last time I checked there were only like, 4 people viewing the thread...now there over 20. :confused:
I'm just waiting for the next post or for PowerofMind to show up at my house and punch me with a thesaurus. Either one.
 
Doesn't seem like the vote's closed yet, so I might as well put in a belated ballot. Still not happy giving power for a guy mostly notable for his abuse of the bureaucracy, no matter how successful he ended up being.

[x] Standard
[x] Yes (Consumes Econ, establishes permanent oversea trade route with Metal Workers)
[x] Large increase to local power (Changes government type to Early Ancient Provincial Kingdom (Elected), alters action spread, completes prereqs for Scourge Warding early, miscellaneous effects)
 
See the hero lasting or us doing diplo as a secondary or us doing econ actions this turn then a diplo?

AN specifically said the hero will have a two turn natural lifespan, so him dying depends on if we send him out to die or not.


I'm just waiting for the next post or for PowerofMind to show up at my house and punch me with a thesaurus. Either one.
Yeah, we have him for 2 turns...I think we should only do 1 trade mission so we can keep our econ from hitting 0.
 
Yeah, we have him for 2 turns...I think we should only do 1 trade mission so we can keep our econ from hitting 0.
I tentatively agree, but would be excited if trade missions to both the HK and Metal Miners work. My support for one over the other depends on the results of this turn.
I support the HK due to a contested hope that they will be a defense, and a reliable hope that such a mission will provide info on the lowlands. I think that this mission is important in determining the stance we will take toward the DP. That is, whether we should aim to stretch toward the ST river or aim to strengthen and then immediately intervene.
I support the MM due to a faint hope that heroic diplo will let us learn smelting. If we learn smelting from them, we will need to do Survey Lands again to look with the new knowledge of what the ore they know of looks like. If the result of the permanent trade route reaches only the neighbors and people seem to support this option more, I will not be sorrowful.
 
Well I want to put them both as Main next turn. I place my trust on the dice to give me what I want :V
This is an insane plan, I pray to Ma'at, for your sake, that it works out.
Tbh, I might support a Trade Mission - MM + Expand Forest - North + Expand Warriors arrangement. The expand warriors will satisfy the military crowd, expand forest will satisfy me, and TM-MM will satisfy the tech crowd and hopefully make the trade route more profitable by establishing a further leg reaching toward the MM proper, as well as kickstarting our own tech dev.

PoM and that other guy I argued with have essentially convinced me that Expand Warriors is worthwhile - even though I want our culture to remain a plant-and-health centered hippy commune with nice architecture.
 
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I suggest we do HK first, to establish an ally as well as get valuable information on how the DP are doing (as well as any new tactics they've come up with). The metal workers aren't quite as urgent, since we're establishing a permanent trade route with them right now we'll get a decent amount of metal tools and other luxuries.

Edit:

Expand forest would cost a 1 econ investment (paying out 2 econ the following turn)...if we do a trade mission and expand forests, we'll go negative.

Considering expand warriors would do well in keeping the nomads from us when they raid again, I think we should maybe expand farms/fishing.
 
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I don't see that happening.


Full time, though everyone is trained for militia duty
What exactly can't you see happening? Us laying down prep work for diplomacy or him surviving two turns, if the later ceck the update, it says he will probably be around for two turn due to his young age.

Even with our advanced farming i doubt we could support fulltiime warrirs as well as a all inclusive militia. Any militia training will most likely have been in their youths and with the exception of our northen settlements, not been keept up due to our largely peaceful lands.
Please refer me to the AN post or update that supports this.
 
I suggest we do HK first, to establish an ally as well as get valuable information on how the DP are doing (as well as any new tactics they've come up with)
It's more important to do the trade mission with the nomads to extend the peace agreement. We'll get more out of not getting raided by nomads than anything we'd get from gaining a friendship with the HK. More importantly, we should do so ASAP, because next turn is when the treaty expires, after which it'll be very difficult to get peace with them.
 
What exactly can't you see happening? Us laying down prep work for diplomacy or him surviving two turns, if the later ceck the update, it says he will probably be around for two turn due to his young age.

Even with our advanced farming i doubt we could support fulltiime warrirs as well as a all inclusive militia. Any militia training will most likely have been in their youths and with the exception of our northen settlements, not been keept up due to our largely peaceful lands.
Please refer me to the AN post or update that supports this.
The biggest sticking point thus far was whether other sorts of deaths could also improve one's standing in the afterlife. Death in combat against evil was obviously a good death, and most agreed that a heroic death, something along the lines of being caught in a landslide while desperately attempting to shore up a retaining wall during a deluge was a good death, but beyond that there was more discussion. This did however mean that the warriors were receiving additional attention. More than ever, people wanted to be warriors if they could, and the best warriors were the cart riders. The Blackbirds were also seen as a good second, but they were more mysterious and their spiritual knowledge and powers took them a step outside normal society. A young man who was a cart rider could walk away from the bonfire at a feast with a young woman under each arm, and the other young men would look on and desperately wish they could be like that rather than feeling the flush of jealous anger. Adding in the idea that if they fell in battle that they would start off their next life better, and, well, suddenly the competition for getting into the warriors got fiercer, and given that being a rider or a driver on the carts often required you to start young, there was a definite stratification starting up.

There were voices calling that they should just accept it, that jobs had gone down through families for generations and that someone just picking up a skill as an adult could never compete with someone who had learned at their parents and grandparents knee. Others said that with general militia training, further efforts should be made to give the People opportunities for glory in combat and death. Still others contested that these ideas were foreign, conceived for foreign spirits who were distant to the primary concerns of the People and the spirits of field and forest, and that they should step away from such ideas, but those people were a distinct minority.

Choose an option to deal with the new chief and his ideas of succession...

.
Choose an option to deal with the issues of social mobility
[] Do not give people false hope, codify the heredity of specialist work
[] Expand the use of the militia to give more people a chance to prove themselves in battle (Lose Econ, gain Martial)
[] The best people shall find their place (High chance of stability loss in the competition for limited warrior billets)

Going to be at least a couple more hours, and the update might not go up today, but locking in as

[X] Bring in the shamans more fully into the process and grant additional temporal powers to help counter the powers of the chiefs (Low chance of stability loss)
[X] Expand the use of the militia to give more people a chance to prove themselves in battle (Lose Econ, gain Martial)

And, now to make the roll on stability loss...

Hmmm...

Interesting...

Yeah, going to need to plot this out just right, so probably update sometime late tomorrow.
 
This is an insane plan, I pray to Ishtar, for your sake, that it works out.
I have no god, only pacts
Even with our advanced farming i doubt we could support fulltiime warrirs as well as a all inclusive militia. Any militia training will most likely have been in their youths and with the exception of our northen settlements, not been keept up due to our largely peaceful lands.
Please refer me to the AN post or update that supports this.
...
It's been countlessly referenced that our warriors are raised since young and continue as just warriors for the rest of their lives. Just look at Gwygoytha to see how far back this tradition stems. Also look to her for the militia, she was the one that started it and made everyone partake in it

Umi-san refers to where we expanded it but as I said Gwygoytha started it.

And no, I see us getting distracted and maybe doing a Secondary Trade Mission the second turn.
*SCREAMS IN METALWORKING*
?
One of those Trade Missions is to the Metal Workers.
 
If we got a diplo hero unit might as well go all in on trade missions and trails to maximize our econ and centerlization then double up on expanding warriors.
 
It's more important to do the trade mission with the nomads to extend the peace agreement. We'll get more out of not getting raided by nomads than anything we'd get from gaining a friendship with the HK. More importantly, we should do so ASAP, because next turn is when the treaty expires, after which it'll be very difficult to get peace with them.
I was leaning towards the nomads over the metal workers too, but everyone wants the metal tools now. If everyone agreed on sending a trade mission to the nomads in order to extend our peace with them by 2-3 turns, then i'd vote for the nomad mission before the one to the HK.
 
We already have metal tools as an example of what to look for, and we are establishing permanent trade route with one of this turn's choices. I think that next step on the road to the metalworking is our own sources of ore, not more trading.
If we have it in any significant quantities. It might be something we encounter as we expand, or something we trade for. That happens. Welcome to Civ 4,5,6. We do have dyes and cures for ailments. That is our trade good. The dyes at least are worth nearly as much as metal, for the moment.
 
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