- Location
- indeterminate, possibly non-existent
- Pronouns
- Any
A bit over two thousand years, I believe we're at about 1700-1600 BC
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Around 1400 BC if I recall correctly? The parts of not!Europe bordering the not!Mediterranean are using bronze/stone weapons right now (or was until the Saffron Isles conquered them).
There's a wiki that people are tracking a timeline on.
- Location
- Staring into the void
There is a link to the wiki in my bio. The time line is on there.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I feel like pride in acceptance should get us prestige. Taking in a huge amount of refugees is more impressive then silly things like a war.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Ymaryn are a really weird tech accelerator that distorts an accurate grasp of where we are in the timeline. As Mortis said, somewhere in the 1700 to 1600s BC with the more precised addendum that we are likely edging into the 1500s BC.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Not necessarily to our neighbors, who, y'know, don't have PiA (or even a relative, in most cases).
- Location
- Australia
Ymaryn can into space
i have a plan to Build all the Academys using Repeat actions
First the core of the plan the academy and Library. If you want to keep the mysticism refund you need to build twice as many Librarys as Academys. With the priest Repeat brings the cost down to something doable in exchange for RA but that is what Academys give tolerance for so this is manageable.
[Repeat] Academy (cost per turn -8 Wealth, -6 Culture, -2 Tech and decreases the refund from Libraries by -2 for +2 RA tolerance)
[Priest Repeat] Library x2 (cost per turn -3(x2) Culture and -3(x2) Mysticism + 1(x2 so =1 RA) Priests Power for +1(x2) Mysticism refund)
total costs per turn -8 Wealth, -12 Culture, -6 Mysticism, -2 Tech. if we get the GP next turn then the Mysticism and Tech will be Refunded.
so to pay for this we need +8 Wealth and +12 Culture per turn
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries (cost per turn -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -1 Tech,+8 Wealth, +2 Culture)
[Guild Repeat] Art Patronage (cost per turn -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, +5 Culture, +1 Prestige)
ok now we are at -3 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -4 Wealth, -5 Culture per turn after refunds
[Repeat] Build Theatre (cost per turn -2 Wealth, -1 Culture, -1 Tech, +4 Culture end of turn, +2 Culture next turn)
Not super sold on this my original idea would be for the Urban poor to be doing Theatres but I'm pretty sure we still need to build some stuff for that.
so now we at -3 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -6 Wealth, as after one turn Culture will be +1.
Per Turn income pay can pay for this now and if need be we can use some Secondarys.
this is what the vote next turn will look like.
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x2
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x3
[Repeat] Academy
[Repeat] Build Theatre
[Priest Repeat] Library
[Priest Repeat] Library x2
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries
[Guild Repeat] Art Patronage
this will be free for anything
[Sec]
[Sec]
[Sec]
[Sec]
[Guild Sec]
one of the biggest problems with this plan is the Guild Power increase Per Turn but the plan needs the Art Patronage.
this is only supposed to run for 3 turns at which point it should have built all the academies and libraries possible which I think should turn off the priest repeats and the academy repeat for free. This plan is very ambitious so I understand if no one wants to go for it but with the baby boom and the golden age coming up I think we should try for something very ambitious.
TLDNR vote for
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x2
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x3
[Repeat] Academy
[Repeat] Build Theatre
[Priest Repeat] Library
[Priest Repeat] Library x2
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries
[Guild Repeat] Art Patronage
next turn
.
i have a plan to Build all the Academys using Repeat actions
First the core of the plan the academy and Library. If you want to keep the mysticism refund you need to build twice as many Librarys as Academys. With the priest Repeat brings the cost down to something doable in exchange for RA but that is what Academys give tolerance for so this is manageable.
[Repeat] Academy (cost per turn -8 Wealth, -6 Culture, -2 Tech and decreases the refund from Libraries by -2 for +2 RA tolerance)
[Priest Repeat] Library x2 (cost per turn -3(x2) Culture and -3(x2) Mysticism + 1(x2 so =1 RA) Priests Power for +1(x2) Mysticism refund)
total costs per turn -8 Wealth, -12 Culture, -6 Mysticism, -2 Tech. if we get the GP next turn then the Mysticism and Tech will be Refunded.
so to pay for this we need +8 Wealth and +12 Culture per turn
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries (cost per turn -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -1 Tech,+8 Wealth, +2 Culture)
[Guild Repeat] Art Patronage (cost per turn -1 Econ, -4 Wealth, +5 Culture, +1 Prestige)
ok now we are at -3 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -4 Wealth, -5 Culture per turn after refunds
[Repeat] Build Theatre (cost per turn -2 Wealth, -1 Culture, -1 Tech, +4 Culture end of turn, +2 Culture next turn)
Not super sold on this my original idea would be for the Urban poor to be doing Theatres but I'm pretty sure we still need to build some stuff for that.
so now we at -3 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -6 Wealth, as after one turn Culture will be +1.
Per Turn income pay can pay for this now and if need be we can use some Secondarys.
this is what the vote next turn will look like.
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x2
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x3
[Repeat] Academy
[Repeat] Build Theatre
[Priest Repeat] Library
[Priest Repeat] Library x2
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries
[Guild Repeat] Art Patronage
this will be free for anything
[Sec]
[Sec]
[Sec]
[Sec]
[Guild Sec]
one of the biggest problems with this plan is the Guild Power increase Per Turn but the plan needs the Art Patronage.
this is only supposed to run for 3 turns at which point it should have built all the academies and libraries possible which I think should turn off the priest repeats and the academy repeat for free. This plan is very ambitious so I understand if no one wants to go for it but with the baby boom and the golden age coming up I think we should try for something very ambitious.
TLDNR vote for
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x2
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions x3
[Repeat] Academy
[Repeat] Build Theatre
[Priest Repeat] Library
[Priest Repeat] Library x2
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries
[Guild Repeat] Art Patronage
next turn
.
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We are already maxing out our tech refund on income, and one more GP isn't going to change that. So you still have 2 underfunded econ there.
Using the Repeat action on Luxuries is an excellent idea - I think I will steal it.
Next turn, you say? How does not failing the Guild Quest factor into this?next turn
- Location
- Australia
i am not sure how the Academy Repeat works for tech if it is just two Secondarys then i don't need the GP. not sure what you mean about the tech refund (Aren't we at 1.5) and the 2 underfunded econ?
As for next turn I guess we can put it off but it really does work better with the golden age and the baby boom, So hope nothing pops those.
Sorry; I mistyped. I meant the Tech would be unrefunded. This is because we only get 1.5 tech of refunds total over all income, and we have something like -7 income, so nothing added to income (like repeated actions) is getting refunds, at least for Tech.
Yes, I would much prefer to see those staying up as well.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
Except sometimes we don't want to spend those stats tomorrow, because we won't have the option to spend them then.
If we get offered "+1 to Subordinate Loyalty Cap" our Cultural innovation next turn, or something similarly fantastic, then if I am parsing your argument right, you are asking us not to take it. Not because we've got low Culture, but because we've got low Tech. If the GA ends, and I will note that our last Golden Age ended very abruptly, we get nothing. We can burn it all on Support Factions or something once our Tech has stabilized, but that's not remotely as good. Locking up our Culture and Mysticism when Tech is low is going to put us in a nasty dilemma or two in the near future.
And sometimes we don't really have a choice about when we have to spend, because there's a crisis on and a few turns down the road is simply too late.
If a crisis occurs and we wind up with low Mysticism, Culture, and Tech, another crisis immediately kicks off as we slam into negative Tech.
And hey, you know what deals pretty serious damage to our stats? Plagues. Imagine a repeat of the plague that killed our last Golden Age. We lose a bunch of stats, we lose a huge chunk of our Wealth income, and now we have low Tech, Mysticism and Culture. Given that we have eight True Cities and a Baby Boom going on, we are virtually guaranteed to have one in the next few turns.
I suspect that unless we take serious action, the next plague is going to drop Tech into the negatives, threatening a cascade collapse.
Adding 2 Industry policies, losing a Forestry passive, accounting for GP refunds, and doing a Sec Support Artisans every turn can make our Tech income neutral without breaking the bank, if I have my math right.
0 + 2 - 7 = -5 Tech currently, so with the changes I mentioned
0 + 2 - 6 + 2 Industry + 2 Artisans = 0 Tech, at the net cost of -2 Wealth and -1 Econ a turn, plus a Passive Policy.
That's not very expensive.
- Location
- Australia
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't refund trigger par source of cost. So we have passive per turn costs get refunded, then actions get refunded individually.
So if
Upkeep costs 3 Tech, get 1 refund.
1 main cost 2 Tech, get 1 refund.
2 Secondarys cost 1 Tech each, get 2 refund.
for a total cost this turn of 7 with 4 refund.
Edit i see i think your right
Last edited:
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
You've got the right idea, but the costs of repeated actions are counted as part of our passive per turn costs. So we add up all the tech costs from all our repeated actions (and any other constant tech drains) and apply the refund once to the entire lump.
- Location
- Australia
I see now that's unfortunate but there's a reason why the plan deals with all cost to culture and mysticism in order to keep the Overflow into Tech going.
Prestige would probably count more from a historical perspective, but at that point, prestige don't matter.
At this point, I count prestige as XP that we use to make GA purchases.
- Location
- Australia
Sorry if I'm filling up the thread but I was thinking that the plan probably can't work due to mysticism costs double Priest Library not being refunded the way I thought it would.
So I thought up a much better plan that is admittedly much less ambitious but more feasible.
[Sec] Academy (cost -4 Wealth, -3 Culture, and -1 Tech)
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries (cost per turn -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -1 Tech,+8 Wealth, +2 Culture)
[Priest Repeat] Library (cost per turn -3 Culture and -3 Mysticism + 1 Priests Power for +1 Mysticism refund)
Then all we need to do is take a secondary Academy every other turn to keep up with the RA increase from the Priest power increase.
So I thought up a much better plan that is admittedly much less ambitious but more feasible.
[Sec] Academy (cost -4 Wealth, -3 Culture, and -1 Tech)
[Sec] Adjust Faction Actions
[Yeomen Repeat] Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries (cost per turn -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -1 Tech,+8 Wealth, +2 Culture)
[Priest Repeat] Library (cost per turn -3 Culture and -3 Mysticism + 1 Priests Power for +1 Mysticism refund)
Then all we need to do is take a secondary Academy every other turn to keep up with the RA increase from the Priest power increase.
It should be noted that we're actually nearing our subordinate cap. 18/21 ignoring the potential 5-cities legacy. We probably want a march to the north/northwest sometime soonish, and I'd love to get a second far north trading post at some point.
Though we are probably going to integrate Txolla soonish, so that'll free up a slot. Still, we don't have as much excess prestige since we just made MoS (well, remade I guess), Forhuch, HK cap, and two free cities.
On a side note, that's another thing that GPs help with! They're only +1 Prestige, but hey, every little bit counts! (Mostly we want the GP for the Tech refund, action, and RA tolerance though. Plus the ability to improve even more as we build more annexes)
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh hey, the northwest march should get us the 5-marches legacy if it exists, shouldn't it? Since we have Highland Cap and Forhuch now.
Maybe, but we'll find out if it exists from seeing if the 5-city legacy exists, and we're not totally certain that the Forhuch actually count as a March for this purpose since it's listed under our vassals primarily, it being a march as a secondary (as opposed to the HK cap, which is a march-vassal rather than the Forhuch's vassal-march)
Honestly, I'd hold off on planning too far ahead. Our internal politics are super volatile, we just found out someone owns most of the Mediterranean and they're picking on one of our allies, I'm not convinced that earthquake was a one-off, we might be about to hit a golden age, and who knows what else is happening. I fully expect to be hit by events that will derail any overly precise plans, for better or for worse.
I think that "+1 to Subordinate Loyalty Cap" is more of a Prestige purchase than a Cultural one, but I get your point - what if we are offered something really awesome?
Well, if it is awesome enough, we should buy it and suck up whatever problems we have with Tech. They aren't quite do-or-die yet; we can get around a lot of them by Supporting Guilds for a turn or two, cutting down on any remotely-expensive actions, and by temporarily feeding out tech needs with the minuscule infusions we get form Support Artisans. It would hurt, and leave us vulnerable to other crises, but we can do it, and we likely should do it if the thing we are offered is enough to make up for it. It would have to be pretty damn good reason, though - something better than the standard Hero / Value Upgrade / MP Slot.
It should be noted that being able to use GA innovations is rather easy now that Gilded Ages are a thing; especially after we've reduced costs with Ironworks 3. We just have to be a bit heavy-handed with Plant Crops or the like. Then again, Factions might change that, so you might be right.
That said, I contest the assumption that GAs are the best ways to spend our stats. Oh, in many cases they are - but in many cases, especially when we are low on stats, they are not. For example, just this turn our lack of culture made it impossible for us to build a GP. It also blocked us from producing a bunch of Tech via overflow, whose lack I expect to hurt us during the midturn. GA innovations are better than stats when you have enough stats; but the problem with stats is that not having them can really screw you, and in times like those said stats would be more valuable than the GA bonus option they might otherwise have bought.
Absolutely. The fact that Overflow is the best short-term method for dealing with out Tech issues doesn't mean that it is stable long term. It is really easy for our overflow highway to break down, especially given that Tech is one of the last stats that overflow hits; we simply can't rely on it. That said, in the short term, it IS the best way for us to get tech, and if we get screwed in the short-term we don't have the resources or actions to focus on the long term. In light of this, I propose that right now we should attempt to get our overflow working if at all possible.
I'm on board with getting rid of a Forest Passive and I'd even be willing to dedicate it to Industry, but that only accounts for one; you need to find another one somewhere. And where are you going to get it? Not like we have a lot of slack with the things we are using.
A Secondary Artisans sounds like a good idea, though honestly right now I think I'd rather task a Guild Repeat to it. That way, we get another +2 tech per turn, increased innovation chance, and don't have to use our own secondaries for it. Unfortunately, it does mean that the Guilds are going to gain power... but I think is worth doing right now, given how much we need tech - and the fact that we hope the innovation can help us with the tech crunch.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Maybe we can purchase a myth genius and cast fist of god at them not!Greeks.
Done! Sets the Mediterranean and Northern African civilization back by few decades with tsunami and tidal wave.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Or they'll warn us of upcoming super volcano eruption right next to our heart land..Maybe we can purchase a myth genius and cast fist of god at them not!Greeks.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Or they'll warn us of upcoming super volcano eruption right next to our heart land..
I thought it was just a normal volcano?