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Paths of Civilization

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We are freeeeeeee!

And Oooo that new avatar smell. With a Thumpstick and Required Sake Gourd to make it even better!

[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Repair Damage
[X][Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X][Agenda] Sea Control
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Merc] Yes


Ya know, I think this government type is growing on me. We have 4 Main and a Secondary equivalents, which is the most we've ever had. Gonna be kinda sad to see them go when we drop two of these cities into Free City-dom.

Also, no love for Harbour just to make sure we get it done? I'd like to hear what anyone's reasons for that are, if you care to share.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Stab/legit at 4/4 sounds like a much better place to be than 3/3, especially given that we are going through rather tremulous times.
Furthermore, we have a culture Hero, and PG is a culture action. That is a nice combo.
Furthermore, PG comboes well with EJ and HT, since it means we now get to properly inform people of the decrees we are making and the protections they have under them.

To get our second More Warships, what we should drop isn't PG, but rather the Repair x2 action (which is doing precious little, as far as I can tell).
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well, either way whatever we drop for warships we should do it now. I'll vote for it if you craft it(and/or repost your previous vote)
 
Main repair damage nets -1 tech, -1 wealth, +1 Econ, and +1 EE. I have to believe that it has much stronger "other effects" than a regular secondary.
 
BungieONI said:
We are freeeeeeee!

And Oooo that new avatar smell. With a Thumpstick and Required Sake Gourd to make it even better!

[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Repair Damage
[X][Sec] Repair Damage x2
[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X][Agenda] Sea Control
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Merc] Yes


Ya know, I think this government type is growing on me. We have 4 Main and a Secondary equivalents, which is the most we've ever had. Gonna be kinda sad to see them go when we drop two of these cities into Free City-dom.

Also, no love for Harbour just to make sure we get it done? I'd like to hear what anyone's reasons for that are, if you care to share.
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we want to make sure we complete traders quest, which given we'll be hunting pirates for sea control, works better if we have it done. Also, harbor seems likely to be done either way.
 
tryrar said:
well, either way whatever we drop for warships we should do it now. I'll vote for it if you craft it(and/or repost your previous vote)
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Here:

[X][Sec] Repair Damage

[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest

[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2

[X] [Sec] More Warships
[X] [Guild Sec] More Warships
 
Romv said:
Yeah, I don't like this at all.
What does Division of Power even mean anymore, now that the Patricians can basically control everything?
The biggest problem I have with this is that it takes away our choice. We've always been able to choose the hard option with 'unnecessary' Stability loss or other costs if we felt it was what we wanted. With the half-exile issue we chose something that had terrible effects, because we felt it was the moral thing to do.
Maybe the fact that we didn't get any Value (evolution) out of it - despite it apparently not even fixing the situation for a time - was a sign? Like, I get that we shouldn't get anything material out of it; that makes sense. I'm not one of the people who expect it to somehow suddenly start the industrial revolution due to rising labour costs. But Values seem to be the exact thing that we should get for things like that.
And yes, the Value that's keeping us from doing what we - or maybe just me - want, is one that always has increased social stratification (oh, how I miss Humility), but giving it that con still seems ... fishy, I guess? We have a Value that explicitly allows us to suppress the unsuppressable; it already includes that as a separate clause to make sure its other power wouldn't apply. Maybe we should have just lost Division of Power instead of getting that con? It would at least give use that slot back.

Anyway, I'm sorry for only posting this now, but time zones had kept me from doing so before.
It has no chance whatsoever (and would probably push us into Culture famine), but whatever:

[X] [Sec] Support Faction - Guilds
[X] [Sec] Support Faction - Guilds x2
[X] [Sec] Support Faction - Guilds x3
Maybe the Guilds want to be in charge?

Eh, TREES?
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The way I see it was a case of pushing morality too far which lead to backlash in the form of loss of power for the thread. To put it another way we smashed the "morality" button too many times and were then forced between two immoral choices: "risk civil war" and "massive social inequality that is probably worse than the one we were fighting."

The moral of the story: doing the right thing does not always win out after hardship and loss.
 
tryrar said:
we want to make sure we complete traders quest, which given we'll be hunting pirates for sea control, works better if we have it done. Also, harbor seems likely to be done either way.
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Hmm. Given AN's comment on the previous page it sounds like a Main Warships is on the way if we go for Sea Control.
But I can see the reasoning why and don't have a major problem if it passes.
 
BungieONI said:
Also, no love for Harbour just to make sure we get it done? I'd like to hear what anyone's reasons for that are, if you care to share.
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The Harbour is 100% getting done no matter what.

The Harbour is covered by Sea Control, so it is likely getting built by a faction. Likely the Urban Poor if nobody else, since it lets then upgrade block housing.
If that doesn't happen, well, the Harbour is a Guild action. The Guilds really want a harbor. So unless they don't have the stats for it, the Guilds should be using one of their mains to build a Harbor (and probably start work on the lvl2 harbor, since they are contributing a Main). And since Harbours use Tech and Econ, both of which we are currently full on, they will have the stats.


So we really don't need to worry about the Harbour not getting built. Compare Warships, which can easily be blocked by anyone taking a wealth-consuming action anywhere.
 
[X][Sec] Repair Damage
[X][Sec] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X][Sec] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] More Warships
[X] [Guild Sec] More Warships
 
PrimalShadow said:
The Harbour is 100% getting done no matter what.

The Harbour is covered by Sea Control, so it is likely getting built by a faction. Likely the Urban Poor if nobody else, since it lets then upgrade block housing.
If that doesn't happen, well, the Harbour is a Guild action. The Guilds really want a harbor. So unless they don't have the stats for it, the Guilds should be using one of their mains to build a Harbor (and probably start work on the lvl2 harbor, since they are contributing a Main). And since Harbours use Tech and Econ, both of which we are currently full on, they will have the stats.


So we really don't need to worry about the Harbour not getting built. Compare Warships, which can easily be blocked by anyone taking a wealth-consuming action anywhere.
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The guild is almost certainly going to be taking warships, considering that is the only way that we could end up over-investing into warships this turn. That means that only the patricians will be able to spend enough wealth to block it. Considering that the patricians are already going to be spending a main action on distribute land, and that their remaining secondary should come after the guild's first main, I think that there is a very good chance that there will be enough resources for the quest.
 
PrimalShadow said:
The Harbour is 100% getting done no matter what.

The Harbour is covered by Sea Control, so it is likely getting built by a faction. Likely the Urban Poor if nobody else, since it lets then upgrade block housing.
If that doesn't happen, well, the Harbour is a Guild action. The Guilds really want a harbor. So unless they don't have the stats for it, the Guilds should be using one of their mains to build a Harbor (and probably start work on the lvl2 harbor, since they are contributing a Main). And since Harbours use Tech and Econ, both of which we are currently full on, they will have the stats.


So we really don't need to worry about the Harbour not getting built. Compare Warships, which can easily be blocked by anyone taking a wealth-consuming action anywhere.
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Well, okay, unless AN says its 100% I'm gonna hold that claim with some skepticism.

Other than that I have three points to raise.

The Guilds being irritated at us means this is not entirely normal operation time.
I actually agree that the Urban Poor would be likely to do it. But they can't since Harbour is listed Trader/Guilds. And being as low power as they are I doubt they will burn any to do it.
It is the Guilds desire and I would expect that they would build a Harbour. If they were not irritated with us, in which case I think this is modified and they are waiting for us to do it for them because they feel mildly petulant and like their feathers need smoothing.

Thus I feel concerned on the matter, especially since AN is saying that with the current winning vote a Sec + Main Warships is really in the cards, which makes me unconcerned about Warships.
 
The threadbanner should not be very hard to miss.
[X][Sec] Governor's Palace (Level 1)
[X][Sec] Repair Damage
[X][Sec]Build Roads
[X][Sec]Build Roads x2
[X][Sec] Enforce Justice
[X][Sec] Proclaim Glory
[X][Sec] Hunt Troublemakers
[X][Sec] Distribute Land
[X][Sec] Distribute Land x2
[X][Guild Sec] Build Harbour Redshore
[X][Agenda] Sea Control
 
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BungieONI said:
Well, okay, unless AN says its 100% I'm gonna hold that claim with some skepticism.

Other than that I have three points to raise.

The Guilds being irritated at us means this is not entirely normal operation time.
I actually agree that the Urban Poor would be likely to do it. But they can't since Harbour is listed Trader/Guilds. And being as low power as they are I doubt they will burn any to do it.
It is the Guilds desire and I would expect that they would build a Harbour. If they were not irritated with us, in which case I think this is modified and they are waiting for us to do it for them because they feel mildly petulant and like their feathers need smoothing.

Thus I feel concerned on the matter, especially since AN is saying that with the current winning vote a Sec + Main Warships is really in the cards, which makes me unconcerned about Warships.
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The guilds want a redshore harbour, that almost certainly means that they are going to be building a redshore harbour if we don't do it for them. The bigger "problem" is that they are going to be dedicating a main instead of a secondary to the task.
 
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Rakuhn said:
The guild is almost certainly going to be taking warships, considering that is the only way that we could end up over-investing into warships this turn. That means that only the patricians will be able to spend enough wealth to block it.
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First of all, that is not the only way we could end up over-investing into warships this turn. The first action to match the policy gets doubled, which means that if whatever the first faction to take Harbours/Sailing-Mission/Warships takes Warships, we get a main there. It need not be the Guilds, and in fact there is no reason to think that it will be.

Second, I dispute your idea that Guilds go second in the turn. We don't know how turn order works right now. Guilds might go second, because they are second in power order. They might go fifth because they were the fifth to pick Province-Faction actions (thanks to having their own actions). Or they might go everyone who has taken Province-Factions actions has gone, because Province-Faction actions happen before Main-Faction actions.
 
Actually, @Academia Nut - can you explicitly tell us what the timing is? Who gets first pick of resources?

Also, can we have names for the two types of actions factions get? One type is Secondaries that benefit from following the King's Agenda; the other type is Mains whcih are locked to faction-tagged actions. Can you give us proper titles that disambiguate these two?
 
Falsehaven said:
Ghostdevil, fireshadow, 2xMachina, kalugin, ScreenWatcher, Dirk93, Arbit, bluefur87, Karugus, Candesce, ctulhuslp, Romv, DragonParadox, 8bitBob, highs2lows, ExNihilo, Redciv3, Susano, Citino, OliWhail, Titus Stargazer, Killer_Whale, Umi-san, Janadus, pbluekan, VoidZero, Spartan492, Finite, Mortis, Yorick's Skull, hylas240, BungieONI, veekie

I have to ask are you happy with the trait that we got from picking that lesson?
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:facepalm:

Please scroll down and re-read the thread banners. This is very much not constructive.
 
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Falsehaven said:
Ghostdevil, fireshadow, 2xMachina, kalugin, ScreenWatcher, Dirk93, Arbit, bluefur87, Karugus, Candesce, ctulhuslp, Romv, DragonParadox, 8bitBob, highs2lows, ExNihilo, Redciv3, Susano, Citino, OliWhail, Titus Stargazer, Killer_Whale, Umi-san, Janadus, pbluekan, VoidZero, Spartan492, Finite, Mortis, Yorick's Skull, hylas240, BungieONI, veekie

I have to ask are you happy with the trait that we got from picking that lesson?
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1. tagging more than like 10 people means they don't get notifications i'm pretty sure
2. mass tagging is rude, and while technically the banner mentions "mass quoting", the same principle applies...especially when you're doing so to start up an argument on a contentious subject full of salt.

PrimalShadow said:
Actually, @Academia Nut - can you explicitly tell us what the timing is? Who gets first pick of resources?

Also, can we have names for the two types of actions factions get? One type is Secondaries that benefit from following the King's Agenda; the other type is Mains whcih are locked to faction-tagged actions. Can you give us proper titles that disambiguate these two?
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I think AN's been using "(Faction controlled) Province Action" for the first, and "Faction Action" for the latter
 
BungieONI said:
The Guilds being irritated at us means this is not entirely normal operation time.
I actually agree that the Urban Poor would be likely to do it. But they can't since Harbour is listed Trader/Guilds. And being as low power as they are I doubt they will burn any to do it.
It is the Guilds desire and I would expect that they would build a Harbour. If they were not irritated with us, in which case I think this is modified and they are waiting for us to do it for them because they feel mildly petulant and like their feathers need smoothing.
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1) Like you said, it is the Guild's desire. do you really think they are going to decide not to do the thing they want because it is bad for us? Especially given that the REASON it is bad for us is that it stops us from helping them finish their quest?

2) You are confusing the two types of actions. The Urban Poor have a Province-Faction action, which is not locked to Urban-Poor-tagged actions. They can take anything they want there, since it is the provinces which are actually carrying things out; the Factions are merely providing direction.
 
Rakuhn said:
The guilds want a redshore harbour, that almost certainly means that they are going to be building a redshore harbour if we don't do it for them. The bigger "problem" is that they are going to be dedicating a main instead of a secondary to the task.
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Do you really not want to see what benefits a lvl2 harbor brings? 3 Progress towards it seems like it wouldn't be a poor use of our guild's time. Especially since lvl2 harbors also contribute to giving us the super-awesome Trader Actions.
 
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