I'm honestly considering taking a break from the thread until the inevitable social collapse, reading about the decline of a great civilization while desperately trying to prop it up sounds depressing.
I've had the same thought, actually. Watching the Ymaryn losing even more of what made them good is just depressing. What's even the point then...

Except the reason why the Patricians can't use DL is because the King needs to take the first action, because he needs to set the example. So how we first do it does actually affect how it turns out.
It doesn't change the fact that no matter HOW it is done, the Patricians can then take it on their own, though.
 
Except the reason why the Patricians can't use DL is because the King needs to take the first action, because he needs to set the example. So how we first do it does actually affect how it turns out.

Why would it? Once the precedent that it's possible is set, why wouldn't the patricians pervert the spirit of it in exactly the same way they did the half-exile laws?
 
There won't be a "never distribute" side of the civil war. If the Patricians start a civil war about that, there will be a rebel side and a loyalist side, and the loyalist side will have two Martial Geniuses, one of which is also a PR prodigy.
You fail to understand here. There is no side who'd be fighting against land distribution. It doesn't matter what happens because after the civil war the winners will be Patricians who want to distribute land.

How then would the narrative go?
-The King refused to distribute land, exercising his veto power to keep it so, despite having stated to be wanting to do so himself.

-The King wanted to distribute land, but the masses were opposed to it on spiritual grounds, and it turned into open revolt. Which is then swiftly crushed to dust.

-Some of the Patricians decided the King would never get around to signing off on the decision and decided to assign the land to themselves. The other Patricians disagreed about who got what land. Everyone starts stabbing.

If we don't do it under Excellent Admin Alyx, we'd see the Patricians telling the Poor Admin Shumyn to do it for them(and AN literally said that it's only a matter of time before a King took over control and did it without our prompting. And literally in the update itself he said he'd be willing to sign off on it.

We can no longer prevent it. We can only control the damage.
 
The thing is, there isn't a done properly version of Distribute Land. The problem is unlocking it for the Patricians, as their incentives are to spam it enough to keep our Centralisation negative and reduce Min Centralisation, and then build GPs to lower Min Centralisation even further.

They can then force transition to a negative Centralisation form of government.
If they tried, they would be losing power each turn they do it, since it would go against the King's Policy. And we can oppose them by doing Main or even double-Main EJ (possibly paired with Kicking MPs, if we don't need that much Stability).

And really, if they do that, all we would need to do to stop them is put our Guilds in charge.
 
I'm honestly considering taking a break from the thread until the inevitable social collapse, reading about the decline of a great civilization while desperately trying to prop it up sounds depressing.

I've had the same thought, actually. Watching the Ymaryn losing even more of what made them good is just depressing. What's even the point then...

Stop trying to prop it up then? Honestly, once we reach a certain point, it might be better to let ourselves collapse and pick up the pieces. As AN has said numerous times, this is a normal step in the life cycle of civilizations; one that we have been putting off for centuries if not millennia, perhaps somewhat to our detriment.
 
If they tried, they would be losing power each turn they do it, since it would go against the King's Policy. And we can oppose them by doing Main or even double-Main EJ (possibly paired with Kicking MPs, if we don't need that much Stability).

And really, if they do that, all we would need to do to stop them is put our Guilds in charge.

Who would then become the new patricians and do the same thing. with private property less centralization is the local optima for the ruling class no matter who they are.
 
If they tried, they would be losing power each turn they do it, since it would go against the King's Policy. And we can oppose them by doing Main or even double-Main EJ (possibly paired with Kicking MPs, if we don't need that much Stability).

It doesn't cost power to use their own province actions as I understand it. They only have to pay to hijack King actions.

Enforce Justice will stop working as the Patricians can use their policies to build walls.
 
It doesn't cost power to use their own province actions as I understand it. They only have to pay to hijack King actions.

Enforce Justice will stop working as the Patricians can use their policies to build walls.
Top faction that doesn't follow the King's Agenda pays 1 to the first faction that does follow it.

Enforce Justice will stop working as the Patricians can use their policies to build walls.
I'll believe it when I see it. It has been a long time, and we are still barely half-walled. It would take one or two DOZEN main actions to finish walling things, and that is just with Significant Walls. And when that happens, I expect the value that generated EJ to give us something different.
 
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I'm honestly considering taking a break from the thread until the inevitable social collapse, reading about the decline of a great civilization while desperately trying to prop it up sounds depressing.
I would say we are at our greatest right now. We went to war to save the Freehills, enforced our laws on half exiles and all we need to do is push back against the belief of spiritually unclean people. We still haven't integrated the lowlands even though right now their is a vote to do so while we still have a baby boom. Patricians will never spam distribute land because we have more land than Patricians so other members of society will get a piece, which they'll never want to do since it'll lead to social mobility.
 
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[X] Veekie

All Hail the sheep! Its time to embrace Glorious feudalism-chan.
 
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The thing is, there isn't a done properly version of Distribute Land. The problem is unlocking it for the Patricians, as their incentives are to spam it enough to keep our Centralisation negative and reduce Min Centralisation, and then build GPs to lower Min Centralisation even further. And their personal incentives will always be to distribute land, as they'll keep having extra sons to give it to.

They can then force transition to a negative Centralisation form of government.

It's a self-reinforcing spiral, as Centralisation goes down the central state's ability to resist goes down with it, until we end up with the Ymaryn being the Polish Commonwealth.
Hyperbolic. Remember we're burning 2 Cent per turn every turn for the last 10 turns or so on PDN. And that AN said there are different ways to implement Distribute Land, some of which are more beneficial or controlled.

The vote combination then does this:
-Double Main Distribute Land(we take a Main, the Patricians basically would take a Main as well) - Land plots are assigned

-Hunt Troublemakers - Inspectors are sent out to check on the management and distribution of the land to ensure that it is fair, that it is going into the right hands, that the common types of abuses are tabulated.

-Enforce Justice - New laws are written up regarding ability to distribute land. Excellent Admin is no guarantee, but there is likely to be a clause to limit too blatant nepotism and graft, as that is the single most common source of abuse on land distribution. Remember the current zeitegeist is that the People are very concerned about greed, this will be reflected in the law.

-Proclaim Glory - We cut these laws in stone steles and set them out across the land.

By the time Shumyn takes over there is a precedent to reference to limit distribution efforts.

The main annoyance is that we'd need to spam roads and harbors to keep up. On the bright side, if it goes well we should be hitting a Golden Age soon.
 
You fail to understand here. There is no side who'd be fighting against land distribution. It doesn't matter what happens because after the civil war the winners will be Patricians who want to distribute land.
That's a bold claim.

The players represent the decision making of the Ymaryn society. Heroic admin kings may take over, factions may hijack, but more or less, we decide on actions. So, what will happen is that if we simply don't do DL, the Patricians will statr the civil war, in which case they're simply traitors against the king. And since Shunmyn is rather middling in Admin, he can't take over the turn, so the Patricians waiting on him to do their DL doesn't work, either.
 
In that case, they are costing us all of 1 Cent a turn. Easily manageable.

They currently have three province actions. They're liable to get more as they pass their own quests.

The action says 1~3 Cent, not 0~3. Nowhere in the action does it say that you can move out of that range thanks to more walls.

Nowhere does it say you can't either. If we get enough walls it could easily move to a range of 0-2.

Hyperbolic. Remember we're burning 2 Cent per turn every turn for the last 10 turns or so on PDN. And that AN said there are different ways to implement Distribute Land, some of which are more beneficial or controlled.

We had different ways to implement unfree labour as well. Look at how that's turned out. Our Patricians have shown that if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

If you do want to do this in more controlled fashion though, I'd say you want a lot more King Distribute Land in there. Having the central state run as much as possible of the initial land distribution project is the least bad precedent.

The narrative of the King hunting trouble makers and enforcing justice while Distributing Land is more likely to be using the power of the state to crush people who dissent from the decision to distribute.
 
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Not only that but AN said DL will eventually increase our max centralisation so we might as well do it correctly by having an excellent admin king and making sure our laws are being followed.

Might. AN said DL might eventually increase our max Cent. If I recall correctly his exact words were "it's possible, yes" in response to someone asking if that could happen. I would not take that as a guarantee.
 
They currently have three province actions. They're liable to get more as they pass their own quests.



Nowhere does it say you can't either. If we get enough walls it could easily move to a range of 0-2.



We had different ways to implement unfree labour as well. Look at how that's turned out. Our Patricians have shown that if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

If you do want to do this in more controlled fashion though, I'd say you want a lot more King Distribute Land in there. Having the central state run as much as possible of the initial land distribution project is the least bad precedent.

Probably, but half of it is ripping out corruption as we do it. The other half is getting everyone else on board since we're finishing all the other faction quests simultaneously this turn
Might. AN said DL might eventually increase our max Cent. If I recall correctly his exact words were "it's possible, yes" in response to someone asking if that could happen. I would not take that as a guarantee.
If done correctly.
I think our current suite of honey and stick should help
 
Jesus christ talk about red fanaticism. Insisting on the inhumane oppressive tyranny of the state and wiling to kill and empire and salt its fields rather than give liberty to its populace.


[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage x2

[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x3
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x4
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage x3
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage x4


[X] [Guild Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] More Warships

[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallionpen
 
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