That is what Chinese cities basically do and Chinese cities today still manage farmlands.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
That is what Chinese cities basically do and Chinese cities today still manage farmlands.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
- You claimed literally everyone supports distribute land
- it was pointed out that factions are not everyone
- you claimed AN saying that the factions support it or are indifferent to it is evidence in support of your statement.
- i said again the flaw is that faction do not represent the totality of all ymaryn and that notably there are no rural poor or half-exile faction
- You said that I have to prove that they hold a position contrary to your initial claim, or prove something irrelevant to your initial claim.
- Location
- over there
"Us"! If we have no influence over the direction of the People it's not much of a quest, after all
The point of subversion is that there's no direct pushback
I disagree.
The truth is, getting rid of a ruling faction via suppression was always nearly impossible. Dropping a faction by 10 power would take 5 supressions, which is 5 secondaries, 25 stats, and TEN stability. We would never have gone for that.
The way we orchestrate a change of government is support some other faction so it surpasses the Patricians. For example, it would be pretty easy for us to make the Guilds our top faction; they are going to have 5-1=4 actions soon, and for two secondaries we can set all of them as repeated mains that we want, giving the Guilds +4 Power/turn. Give it three or four turns and the Patricians will go kaput as the ruling class.
- Location
- Illinois
...ok, you know what? Fine. You win.
Every faction that matters is for or not against it, and everyone else may or may not be against it with no proof one way or another.
Going to sleep now. Looks like most people, other than a vocal minority, is voting DL, so it's really not worth debating people who only care about morality.
Oirbse
Stars Will Blossom In The Darkness
- Location
- Australia
I'm kinda finding it funny that we have forgiven Civi ending nomad hordes, willingly allowed anyone into our nation (Even if as WoAN is that most are bandits that are fleeing from there kingdoms...Though I will admit thats freely acceptable given that we have saved so many people.), and even allowed our people to leave freely...But now that its world war 2 electric boga loo kill all the Patricians, leave no survivors.
Doesn't really mesh well with our Harmony trait. (Though they were the ones calling for civil war), that's why it'd probably be best to subvert them over time, and use a genius admin plus a golden age bonus...Cause we can't forget that the Guilds will be just as bad, and they have the second highest power. (Mega corps worse then Nobles, but Nobles worse than regular people that can do whatever if you get what I'm saying.)
Doesn't really mesh well with our Harmony trait. (Though they were the ones calling for civil war), that's why it'd probably be best to subvert them over time, and use a genius admin plus a golden age bonus...Cause we can't forget that the Guilds will be just as bad, and they have the second highest power. (Mega corps worse then Nobles, but Nobles worse than regular people that can do whatever if you get what I'm saying.)
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Nope, it's also practicality. Patrician's having more control over their lands directly makes it much easier for them to secede with those lands, and gives them greater resources to use in whatever other agendas they want.
Subvert them to do what? Suddenly give up their land in a fit of madness?
FYI, if you are voting for me - I just changed a More Warships action for an EJ, because I just realized Distribute Land costs Cent.
The point is previously we could suppress them if they asked for something outrageous.
Considering that this happened because the Patricians were unhappy about losing their de facto slaves, once we've demonstrated we'll cave now, why wouldn't their next but one quest be to legalise slavery or else civil war?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We basically need to be doing an Enforce Justice + Build Roads main every turn from this point. The Roads we can use a repeated action for.
- Location
- Illinois
Except most societies can survive private ownership of land, and when the choice is endure civil war every couple generations or actually try to implement a working version of land ownership, guess which one I'll choose?
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay, but...how? How do you propose we subvert an increasingly entrenched and protected element of our society, who we have solid evidence will be doing everything in their power to cut off every avenue of opposition they can find? The explicit motive behind this DL push is to prevent future kings from acting against the Patricians' interests.
They would probably have to be pissed to ask for that.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Yes, they are, indeed.
Did we forgive the Nomads WHILE they were attacking our villages? Of course not. We didn't allow them to raid us. And just the same, what we proposing is not allowing the Patricians to blackmail us.
They are breaching Harmony. They are breaching Greater Justice. They are breaching Lord's Loyalty.
All we propose is standing firm against that.
Note that we asked AN about it. He said the Priests oppose it because they want the land to be distributed to the temples where it'd be much better cared for.
FYI in the update itself:
Shunmyn doesn't give a shit. He's going to listen to his patrician advisors about who to back in the war.
Err, that's a bit of a problem because the Yeomen love Distribute Land even more than the Patricians.
So lets take a basic land allocation thingy:
-4x Main Distribute Land distributes about 5-10% of our land. Almost all of this is going to go to our high ranking Patricians.
-8x Main Distribute Land distributes about 10-15% of our land. We're running out of patricians here, further allocations will be going to Yeomen, who'd be pushing to become Patricians.
-12x Main Distribute Land distributes about 15-20% of our land. In order to maintain state function we'd start to redistribute land by subdividing it under the Patricians further.
I.e. Past a certain threshold you'd see the Patricians desire to take land BACK because it's now enabling social mobility.
Yes. And fixed.
According to AN, Free City policies aren't doubled. Faction actions and Faction policies should be at Crown strength
Err, @PrimalShadow
Who exactly are the ones making the tally cry?
Well, it would get blocked by Distribution of Power, which works on normal quests.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This continues to be unsupported. Once we have the first civil war, our values will likely evolve (or be able to be made to evolve) in such a way as to remove the need for further wars, as the Patricians (or replacements) should be suppressible again. This is a reasonably plausible outcome, as the war would be directly started by said inability to suppress them, and you yourself have acknowledged that war will likely impact our traits.
To be fair, most feudal societies, which is what the patricians are pushing us towards survived near-constant civil wars.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We probably are going to have to deal with civil wars from the Patricians having their own lands, but hopefully not the civilization-shattering kind.
Whoever it is that is taking something that used to be in a singular format, and changing it to two formats. AN's initial suggestion is a great Schelling point, but "the thing everyone has been doing for the last 10 pages" is a much better one.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Except it's not just private ownership of land, it's private ownership of land solely by aristocracy, that was a primary trait of feudalism a system which is not at all less prone to civil war than our current one.
Hah! So did I. We've been holding ourselves from taking it for so long that I forgot we were supposed to have a Cent valve.
Why am I not asleep...