A civil war is a temporary solution. We can no longer suppress the Patricians, which means that we could be facing a civil war every couple of generations.
There are more effective ways of dealing with this than killing off mass numbers of our own people and destroying our infrastructure.
Or we could not give into blackmail and instead set a precedent that disrupting the Joyous Symphony of the People leads to you being utterly crushed? Seriously if the result of civil war is "and then the revolt is crushed" then we won't see future revolts crop up when the leading faction gets uppity.
A civil war is a temporary solution. We can no longer suppress the Patricians, which means that we could be facing a civil war every couple of generations.
Thwre are more effective ways of dealing with this than killing off mass numbers of our own people and destroying our infrastructure.
Counterpoint: a civil war over this is almost certain to provoke a change in our values. I doubt the Patricians' inability to be suppressed will survive their defeat.
So uh, are these just polite ways of saying that he sucks at Diplomacy and Administration? Have we reached the point where any sign of weakness in the ruling family is now unacceptable?
And who will replace the patricians? Keep in mind that the patricians are our clerks, our generals, and our governors replacing them with any other faction will just lead to even worse problems down the line.
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
You don't seem to have added this? (Or updated the faction on civ sheet to reflect them supporting themselves)
Also i think city consumption should be 10, with 4 EE all cities should be active, so 5 (Redshore) + 4 (Other two FC) + 3 (Blackmouth) + 8 (Other four TC) = 20 - 6 (City support) = 14.
(Speaking of blackmouth already having its block housing complete, did we get the policy bonuses early or something???)
And yeah, let's not fight a civil war over this shit?
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
Not really, rather just a temporary problem, because if we do make if absolutly clear that we won't disturb land then at somepoint they will stop asking
And nothing makes it as clear as murdering everybody who would even just suggest something in that direction
Honestly I'm hoping that it'd just slide it over into a different trait of the same level. So long as the uber-elites are arrogant enough to think they can get away with civil war its a pretty good trait.
Hm. @Academia Nut would "War Mission - Patricians" or something along those lines be a valid vote, to deliberately start the civil war early? I don't expect I'd be able to get support for it (and I'm not sure I'd even want it) but it occurred to me and might be more useful in a later context.
How are we still at Economy 17?
Why did EE drop by TWENTY-ONE?
Where did our Wealth go?
Why is our Econ Income showing as +4 instead of +5?
Why are we listed as having 18 city expenses? If we just gained 5 cities, so we should be at 8 (cities) + 8 (panem) + 2 (redshore housing) + 1 (redshore ironworks) = 19, not 18.
Where did our 10th point of Wealth from Markets come from? I count 5 from Redshore, 2 from Valleyhome, and 2 from Blackmouth.
Honestly I'm hoping that it'd just slide it over into a different trait of the same level. So long as the uber-elites are arrogant enough to think they can get away with civil war its a pretty good trait.
Analysis and Diffcheckers -- "Dragon King at Rest"
<Note that this is for the previous update, because AN is a ninja and updated right before i finished )
Short post today, since i've spent all the time since the update playing EU4 and its already locked
Initial: 12
-5 (Found March)
Subtotal: 7
+(+1) (Pending Veterancy)
Subtotal: 7 (+1)
+{6} (Swords and Ploughshares)
+{10} (Yeomen Power)
Subtotal: 7 (+1) {23}
+{8} (Red Banner)
+{4} (Dragon Banner)
+{4} (Blood Rain Banner)
Total: 7 (+1) {39}
Not sure how AN ended up at 37, but it should be this, i'm pretty sure? Just barely squeaking by with the mercs in main budget =3
Note that this should be 7, unless it suddenly started rounding up.
Units changed -2 -> 0, since all three mercs fit in main budget now.
Maintenance "changed" -12 -> -11, because AN had previously forgotten the change in innovation policy costs (which switched from 2 wealth to 1 wealth 1 tech)
Highlands Cap (Vassal-March) - Protects against incursion from the Highlanders in the east, can provide military advances and supports Txolla (L: 4/5, D: 3/5)
New march! ...which is a "vassal-march", but seemingly enough on the side of "march" to be listed with the marches instead of with the vassals? below max loyalty and dependency...definitely needs to have an influence tossed its way at some point, i'd say.
Some terminology changes to clarify how the palace bonuses work with higher leveled governor's palaces:
-Prestige bonus seemingly only when first built, not when expanded
-Secondary action gain is still based on palace count, not levels
-Temp Econ Damage, Tech Refund, and RA tolerance are all based on palace level
Since lv 2 gov palaces don't add additional cent tolerance drain, this makes higher level gov palaces amazing.
Ehhh, just gonna skip the update section; its been discussed enough and i'm not staying up till 3 AM like yesterday
True Cities
[5/13 {13.5} City Level Limit (#Provinces + #LandedNonFreeCitySubordinates)/2]
[0 Non-Supported True Cites : -0 High Cent Tolerance]
[Cities activate when EE is at or below Threshold/2]
[Total Upkeep: 0 (True Cities) + 6 (Free Cities) - 6 (City Support) = 0]
-Greenshore - Capital [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate)
-Greenshore - Unknown City [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate)
-Western Wall - Capital [Aqueduct, Governor's Palace, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate)
-Heaven's Hawk - Phygriftwyn [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate)
Libraries:
[Total effect: 3 Mysticism Refund]
-Sacred Forest (Temple, Megaproject, +1 Refund by itself)
-Valleyhome (True City)
-Valleyhome (Palace Annex x2 = 1 National Library)
-Stallion Pen (Temple)
-Redshore (True City) -Amber Road (Temple) (In Subordinate)
Temples
[7 {8} Total Temple Levels, 1 Natural Wonder]:
-Sacred Forest in Sacred Shore (Lv 2)
-Dragon Graveyard in Stallion Province (Lv 2 + Natural Wonder)
-Horse Valley in Stonepen (Lv 2 + Lv 1 Observatory)
-Holy Sea in Redshore (Lv 1) -Amber Road (Lv 1) (Subordinate)
Salt/Gold Production
[Total Effect: +5 Wealth/turn]
-Heaven's Hawk (Lv 1 Salt Mine) (In Subordinate, Applies to Core Anyway) [+0.5]
-Heaven's Hawk (Gold Mine) (In Subordinate, Applies to Core Anyway) [+0.5]
-Redhills (Megaproject) [Functions as Lv 1 for total Ironwork level count]
-Redshore (Lv 3)
Governor's Palace:
[All numbers are totals]
[-1 Min Cent Tolerance, -2 Max Cent Tolerance, +0 True City Admin Support]
[+2 Max Interconnectivity, +2 Temp Econ Damage Resistance]
[+2 Max Safe Martial, +2 RA Tolerance]
[+1.5 Tech Refund, +1.5 Sec Action, including main Palace]
-Blackmouth (Lv 1)
-Sacred Shore (Lv 1)
-Western Wall (In Subordinate)
-Greenshore (In Subordinate)
Interconnectivity (21/55)
[Max IC Formula: 2 + 3*Full_Provinces + Governor's_Palaces]
[+7 Max Centralization Tolerance (IC/3, round down). 0 Banked Centralization]
[Can gain Cent Tolerance up to a max of +10 (30 IC), based on current Government/Tech/Etc]
[Will gain Centralization from IC gained up to half of max IC value (27/55), any past that will be banked]
Actions
[Placeholder -- I'll update this when i have more time and understand the new action system better]
Provinces
[In Progress Provinces]
-Northern Blackriver [2/6]
[Subordinate Provinces]
<Just ignore this section for now, it's out of date, was only ever my (Abby Normal) guesses, and with the plague and unknown subordinate status, is likely even more wrong than I know>
-Western Wall - 2-3? Provinces (0? Ready to Integrate)
-Greenshore - 3-4? Provinces (0 Ready to Integrate)
-Heaven's Hawk - 1 Province (1 Ready to Integrate) [March]
-Txolla - 3-4? Provinces (2? Ready to Integrate) <AN says probably 5 actually, will figure out what that means for provinces based on actions later>
-Tinriver - 2-3? Provinces (0 Ready to Integrate)
-Thunder Horse - 3-4? Provinces (0 Ready to Integrate)
-Amber Road - 1 Province (0 Ready to Integrate) [Immature Trading Post, cannot expand]
Stat Caps
[Base Cap - 27]
[Base is 10 + #Provinces]
[Wealth Cap - 25]
-Base Value (+10)
-17 Provinces (+17)
-8 Guild Faction Power (+4)
-12 RA Mylathadysm (-6)
[Safe Martial Limit - 37 {40}]
[Number in {} is safe "non-primary" martial, which refers to the extra martial we gain from econ, listed in {} on the civ sheet]
-Base Value (+10)
-17 Provinces (+17)
-2 Governor's Palaces (+2)
-Palace Arsenal Annexes (+1)
-Iron Age Census (+2)
-International Games (+5)
-Gymnasiums {+3}
Tolerances:
[Note: Being at a tolerance cap triggers penalties]
[Low Centralization Tolerance: - 5]
-Government Base "Neutral" (5)
-Legacies (-1)
-2 Governor's Palaces (-1) [-0.5 per GP]
[High Centralization Tolerance: 12]
-Government Base "High" (5)
-21 Interconnectivity (+7) [+1 per 3 IC]
-Legacies (+3)
-17 Provinces (-1) [-1 per 2 provinces over 16]
-0 Unsupported True Cities (-0) [-1 per Unsupported City. Free Cities and Capital are supported. Governor's Palaces can support 1 city per 3 GPs.]
-2 Governor's Palaces (-2) [-1 per GP]
[Hierarchy Tolerance: 10]
-8? Base (+8)
-Legacies (+2)
[Religious Authority Tolerance: 13]
-9? Base (+9)
-1? Quest Reward (+1)
-3 Capital/Governor's Palaces (+3) [+1 Per Palace]
Refunds
[All Refunds are limited on a per action basis]
[Econ Refund - 5]
[Refunds spent Econ as EE. Gained from True/Free Cities]
-2 Level 1 Cities (+2)
-0 Level 2 City (+0)
-1 Level 3 City (+3)
[Tech - 1.5 {1}]
[Refunds spent Tech at end of turn. Gained from Palaces]
-Civ sheet should include the "bonus" policies we have (the Law bonus that you said is still a General Infrastructure policy, and the innovation one from the Artisan Games bonus
-Wealth income is listed as 6, instead of 7, in the spoiler
-secondary martial should be 39, not 37
-1 What are our two geniuses respective expected lifespans?
-2 I know you've mentioned it in several spread out posts, but can you consolidate the "when and why can factions take actions outside their tag, how and when they spend faction points, and etc" into a post? (including whether they can start megaprojects with their tag) (you already said yes, this is just here as a reminder to both of us )
-3 How are the faction policies/actions allocated to each faction? I tried using the original rules you laid out and couldn't replicate your results. (Not how the number is calculated, how they are assigned)
-4 Does Italics for other civs on trade indicate they are "leading", or is it that they are "competing" and threatening to gain leading/dominating status and/or pull down the one currently doing so?
Honestly can't even be mad since we did this to ourselves, I just hope inertia carries things along long enough for transport tech to advance enough the crown is still able to maintain more than a pittance of power over the lands.
)
