Sure, a 3 turn buffer is fine, in the sense that we should prioritize it over non-critical projects. In my eyes, the following count as non-critical:
  • starting Megaprojects,
  • Improving tech (e.g. More Cement)
  • Improving societal structure (e.g. building Academy + Library)
  • Contact with new neighbors
  • maybe other stuff on a case-by-case basis
 
You wanna bet?

Everything is accelerating. Not everything is accelerating equally, but so long as we keep our RA high and a reasonably high centralization government type, we should be able to keep things within bounds. Perhaps we'll have to take advantage of advancements slower than if we had prepped the forests beforehand, but we would've been getting those advancements much later anyway if we had tried to keep such a ridiculous buffer.

The priests do not have the tools to prove that they are right and we have known that very unlikely events has changed the course of history in this quest.

I rather not tempt fate.
 
Some passive policy thoughts:

According to the threadmark, we get 1 passive per province + 1 per free city. Currently that's 20. We decide half, factions decide the other half.

If the patricians keep supporting the yeomen, then all factions are under 10 strength. Several factions have bonus actions, but that doesn't affect division of policies. Yeomen pick first, Urban Poor pick last, but since it's evenly divisible that doesn't matter. So, each faction gets two passive policies.

To plan out what we should use, we should first estimate what the factions will use theirs for. I'm not confident that we'll actually find this out from the update, so may as well gauge it now.

I would anticipate them doing something like:

- Patricians: Administrative Infrastructure + either Administrative x2 or Patronage
- Guild: Industry + Urban Infrastructure (unsure about this, Urban Infrastructure is a bit unfocused, but it's their only shot at ironworks)
- Traders: Trade Infrastructure + either Trade Infrastructure x2 or Trade (@Academia Nut There's a naming clash here...)
- Yeomen: Forestry + Expansion (might do Agriculture, but that would probably be too city-friendly)
- Priests: Religious Infrastructure + Mysticism
- Urban Poor: Urban Infrastructure x2

Although there are of course various other possibilities, like the Urban Poor focusing on Health instead of general Urban, or the Priests wanting moar temples.

So, most types of infrastructure will probably have someone working on them. I'd recommend focusing on Health Infrastructure, at least x3, but since we're no longer building every kind of infrastructure ourselves, and since fewer infrastructure types get doubled, we don't need to devote all policies to it.

We'll definitely want at least one each of Skulduggery, Defensive, City Support, Vassal Support, and Forestry (unless we convert the Forestry policy into a repeated Expand Forest action, but that works out the same for the purposes of this exercise), which leaves 2 policies remaining. I'm not sure of the best place to put them, but once the cities are back online, we'll probably want a second City Support. Leaving one more that I guess people can argue over ;). Another vassal support? We've picked up some more subordinates lately.

Edit: If my estimates are more or less accurate, then we'll have the following faction passive results as a minimum:

+2 free progress to administrative infrastructure (probably finish colossal walls, then do governor's palaces)
+1 Tech
+2 free progress to urban infrastructure (probably starting with aqueducts)
+1 free progress to trade infrastructure (probably starting with harbours)
+1 free progress to religious infrastructure (starting with temples)
+0.5 forest
+0.5 EE

Pretty spread out, but that's to be expected from factions.
 
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Sure, a 3 turn buffer is fine, in the sense that we should prioritize it over non-critical projects. In my eyes, the following count as non-critical:
  • starting Megaprojects,
  • Improving tech (e.g. More Cement)
  • Improving societal structure (e.g. building Academy + Library)
  • Contact with new neighbors
  • maybe other stuff on a case-by-case basis

I do not know why you think the Academy is not critical. It is the pathway to technical schools.

Governor's Palace works, yes, due to its mechanical effects, but they seem to be more of a narrative stopgap than an actual solution.
 
I agree with everything except this. We are currently building the Dam, and narratively we want more cement to do that. This is a time-limited issue. Luckily we should be able to do everything next turn anyway (so long as we refill our stats during the midturn).

We will be at 50% or 66% toward completing the project, so cement isn't that critical to speeding up progress. What's really holding us up is our inability to focus on MP support spam due to the wars we have been fighting.
 
May I just say, it's pretty awesome that the People not only know how much forest they have, but can treat it as a renewable resource. Forests are plentiful enough that other nations apparently get by without worrying about it, but the Ymaryn are looking to the long term.
 
So our plan to induce dependency in them has instead likely caused our economies to become co-dependant? colour me shocked, a simple understanding of economics or history never could have predicted this.
This was entirely anticipated anyway. The most likely practical solution is to subsidize and expand domestic mining. The root of the problem is likely that ever since we built the ironworks we had literally never built a single iron mine. Domestic production cannot meet demand!

Or the crazy solution is to expand the ironworks so hard that foreign sources CAN'T meet demand. :V
Time and space mostly. Although I have considered adjusting a few things to account for various tool usage.

Also, I think that these will be the various forms of infrastructure policy available. At this point only Health and Government infrastructure will benefit from your Law bonuses (the government upgrade will open up a Classical Law Reform megaproject). I will refine later the preference of the infrastructure. For example, Religious infrastructure will take your temples up to Yellow tolerance before it starts building observatories, then libraries, then academies. There are also conditionals, so when you have lots of Econ the Urban infrastructure policy will prefer Block Housing, but when you are low on Wealth it will prefer markets.

Religious
Academy
Library
Temple
Observatory

Health
Aqueduct
Bath
Saltern

Urban
Academy
Aqueduct
Bath
Block Housing
Ironworks
Marketplace

Administrative
Academy
Colossal Walls
Governor's Palace

Trade
Marketplace
Harbour
Saltern
Lets see:
-Religious

This is a good safe cycle of net gain to society. Ironically, the priests are actually unlikely to build temples when their Power are high because priest power contributes to Yellow/Red RA, which means that powerful priests will build Academies and Libraries instead.

-Health

Our favorite. Didn't realize Salterns are Health though.

-Urban

The Guilds favorite, but the least controlled for us. No reason to want it.

-Administrative

Patrician favorite
Governor's Palace would be hogging this, primarily. Academies will only be built when the priests power are very high. Nobody else cares about them.
Urban Poor are likely to want Colossal Walls and Patricians want Palace.

-Trade

Players may want to note that this is what unlocks Block Housing everywhere...Summon Nurgle
Also, I think I'm going to strip out some of the names as being an unnecessary distraction. So instead of listing off all the places where a temple can go, I will just have something like "Spots for Level 1 Temple: 15", and only really give names for the major spots that have temples already. Same for the governor's palaces. If you want to specify something though that can be fairly doable with only a little bit of write in.
@Academia Nut

Could you also include the spots for Observatories? IIRC they are location limited, but we have no idea where these locations are.
3 Econ and 3 Tech for 3 progress. +1 EE and +1 City Attraction. +2 Max Connectivty/level. Allows bulk shipping regardless of other factors, so can build Block Housing without Panem or suitable geographic factors. Higher levels allow for higher level Block Housing (should actually cross out the possibility of a Level 3 Block Housing for Redshore) and interact with markets. Harbours are also the Trader faction action determination (I think something like Number of Level 2+ Harbours/2 for the number of faction actions).
Hmm, knowing theres a cap on Block Housing is a relief. Lets other stuff catch up.
It has aqueducts and a minor river access, but fundamentally the terrain is not conducive to major shipping canals until the Industrial Revolution, or if you dedicate major effort into learning how to make canals.

Does the Stone Age canal not count or is it just too small?
Still, thats not necessarily a bad thing.

So something I was wondering. The factions have the ability to grow in power nigh endlessly and even usurp control from the King. Does the King have a stat tracking his power over the factions?

Would Legitimacy and/or Centralization fulfil that role? Legitimacy, even with the UP boost seems too low to compare to the factions, yet Centralization can get that high.

Centralization management may be the key to keep the factions somewhat under control. The problem is that raising it is pretty damn difficult.

The Crown's power is a factor of Centralization(amount of oversight), Hierarchy(degree to which a faction has to interface with state structure to accomplish goals) and Patrician power(as a member of the ruling class).
Furthermore, so long as the King is pursuing the goals or interests of a faction in his actions, he can expect the faction to back him up.

80% of the time the Patricians will back the Crown, because the power of the Crown is ultimately their power.
This is why the plots to crush the Patricians' power are hilariously misguided. They're what lets us KEEP the crown.

And you can bet if we start hammering down on all the factions they'd read the direction the wind is blowing and team up to spite the King.

So then, how do you manage the factions gettiing high power?
We do what AN had told us about managing factions back when they first started: Fulfilling the needs of the factions in balance are how you maintain a thriving state.

Because any faction acting out would be crushed politically by the community of the other factions. Lets say for instance we have every faction at 10 Power.
-The Patricians want pony(again), but the expense will drop us into critical wealth panic. The Guilds and Traders will team up to block the Patricians power, leaving Patricians, Guilds and Traders lower than when they started.
-The Guilds want an expansion of industry(again) which threatens to redline our fuel supply. The Priests will oppose them, and if we coordinate with the priests to take a Plant Forest action, the Yeomen will team up as well.

This is crude and unpracticed but I expect an evolution of Division of Power would address faction hijacks more effectively.

Well, repeated actions cost a passive policy slot, so I figure, run a forestry policy initially while we observe what the factions will do with all their new power, then create a repeated action that consumes that slot.

If we want to start a repeated action immediately, OK, but the yeomen have a forest quest right now, and Expand Forest initially costs Econ (which gets refunded next turn with interest), so we might actually starve if we overdo it up front.
You have my spade.

Well tentatively.
AN throws a lot of curveballs.
You wanna bet?

Everything is accelerating. Not everything is accelerating equally, but so long as we keep our RA high and a reasonably high centralization government type, we should be able to keep things within bounds. Perhaps we'll have to take advantage of advancements slower than if we had prepped the forests beforehand, but we would've been getting those advancements much later anyway if we had tried to keep such a ridiculous buffer.
I'd note a couple of things:
-Our ability to consume fuel will increase due to increasing amount and technological efficiency of actions that consume fuel. Actions per turn will increase, while the costs of fuel consuming activities will decrease even as the gains rise due to technological improvements.

-Our ability to plant forests is not going to significantly increase for a substantial while yet. Actions per turn will increase, but it is unlikely that the efficiency of Expand Forest in ability to produce more forest is going to go up in the near future.
 
This is a good safe cycle of net gain to society. Ironically, the priests are actually unlikely to build temples when their Power are high because priest power contributes to Yellow/Red RA, which means that powerful priests will build Academies and Libraries instead.
That's OK, it's an evolution of their current superstition-oriented approach to more critical thinking :).

Our favorite. Didn't realize Salterns are Health though.
True, nor did I, but we should have. Definitely makes the Health policy appealing.

@Academia Nut Does that mean that Salterns affect disease rolls?

The Guilds favorite, but the least controlled for us. No reason to want it.
Besides, probably the Urban Poor will take it.

Urban Poor are likely to want Colossal Walls and Patricians want Palace.
IIUC though the policy will first finish the Colossal Walls that are in progress.

This is crude and unpracticed but I expect an evolution of Division of Power would address faction hijacks more effectively.
Also, working effectively with the factions is the Symphony traitline in action.

-Our ability to plant forests is not going to significantly increase for a substantial while yet. Actions per turn will increase, but it is unlikely that the efficiency of Expand Forest in ability to produce more forest is going to go up in the near future.
What can improve is our charcoal kilns.
 
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I agree with everything except this. We are currently building the Dam, and narratively we want more cement to do that. This is a time-limited issue. Luckily we should be able to do everything next turn anyway (so long as we refill our stats during the midturn).
I've got no skin in the game - argue with the "we should have a Forest Reserve" people.
It is critical if we think that is what unlock technical schools.
You said that already. And that still doesn't make it critical, unless we are literally dying from not having technical schools. Which we are not.
 
What can improve is our charcoal kilns.
This is true but on our time scales of advancement, even with our bullarky levels of innovation rolls our technical progress is still slow and we don't have the resources or time to devote to spamming kilns to force through an innovation. Such a thing is a ways out, probably a few centuries which in the New System are going to be upwards of 20 updates, at ten turns per century and two updates per turn at least. How this interfaces with our short term goals seems like it should be determined and then kept in mind.

You said that already. And that still doesn't make it critical, unless we are literally dying from not having technical schools. Which we are not.
I would argue we are, very slowly, looking at and putting together our tech costs now and where they seem to be headed. Right now of course we can afford it, but under the assumption that the guilds will push for more Ironworks which we have evidence for them wanting to do, this will get to the point where it won't.

Technical schools in the sense of the ones which train skilled laborers like artisans are pretty much a direct source of Tech, as that is what Tech represents.
 
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80% of the time the Patricians will back the Crown, because the power of the Crown is ultimately their power.
This is why the plots to crush the Patricians' power are hilariously misguided. They're what lets us KEEP the crown.
You are wrong. Remember way back in the olden days? How the chiefs were ignoring the king? That was because the power of the king was not the same as the power of the chiefs. Nowadays, the only difference is that the word "chiefs" is swapped out with "patricians". If the patricians are too powerful, they will act more autonomously from the king. Crushing the patricians won't lose us the crown, it'll just get us new patricians.
 
What can improve is our charcoal kilns.

It doesn't address the problem that our ability to expand forests action improve more slowly than actions that consume forests.

Charcoal Kilns(and its later iteration) buy time, and I absolutely welcome every last bit of it to stretch supply, but ultimately the solution is to improve action efficiency of Expand Forest action to get ahead of the curve.

I proposed improving black soil production efficiency but it appears the limiting factor is time and space?
 
That was my response, but then I remembered the reason we first built them was for medicine. Combined with food preservation, it seems obvious in hindsight.
I also recall during the Shit Yourself To Death Scare in the Reign of Magwyna that Saltern would give us +1 Stability if it was built.
 
I would argue we are, very slowly, looking at and putting together our tech costs now and where they seem to be headed. Right now of course we can afford it, but under the assumption that the guilds will push for more Ironworks which we have evidence for them wanting to do, this will get to the point where it won't.
Yes. All of which makes it potentially* important, but none of which makes it critical; you'd need urgency for that, and this issue lacks it.

*potentially in the sense that it is by no means guaranteed to work. Even if Academies unlock technical schools, there is no guarantee that technical schools won't just give a tech drip, which is helpful but doesn't really solve our problems the way a Tech refund would. Furthermore, if Technical Schools are unlocked, it is not unlikely they are a megaproject and/or require extended projects, which reduces the net value of the whole thing.




That said, if you still think that Academies + Libraries are important enough to be targeted ASAP, that is fine too; just tell me which of our other projects you are planning to cut to make room for it.
 
That said, if you still think that Academies + Libraries are important enough to be targeted ASAP, that is fine too; just tell me which of our other projects you are planning to cut to make room for it.
Please tell me your list of critical projects. I am actually curious about it and haven't seen it posted.

Additionally I believe this situation has urgency because of that trend I mentioned. Preventing that trend from harming us is a thing we are going to have to keep in mind from next update onwards.
 
It doesn't address the problem that our ability to expand forests action improve more slowly than actions that consume forests.

Charcoal Kilns(and its later iteration) buy time, and I absolutely welcome every last bit of it to stretch supply, but ultimately the solution is to improve action efficiency of Expand Forest action to get ahead of the curve.

I proposed improving black soil production efficiency but it appears the limiting factor is time and space?

The easiest thing that we could try to do would be to force an upgrade from Expand Forests to Terraform. It's come up a few times before as an option for Economy or EE during Golden Ages and, IIRC, has been implied to be an upgrade of those actions. By combining a Main Expand Forests and Main Black Soil, we may cause those actions to synergize and upgrade due to narrative effects.

It's not something that we can easily do now, if we want to keep our cities, but we should give it a try in the future when our EE runs low. Though, It's possible that the Yeoman will do this all on their own eventually. AN's said they're likely to get (Provinces/2 - Number of Cities) actions each turn. Even if we get 5 Free Cities and have Valleyhome, that's still (17/2 - 6) = 2.5 actions. They're probably more likely to Expand Forests in order to meet their quest and then do New Settlements in order to fill out additional provinces and for extra EE. A single province gets them +1 action; considering North Blackriver is at 2/6 right now, they will likely rush that to get an extra action.
 
Don't know about @PrimalShadow or anybody else, but for me, the three most important and critical problems to address are:

1) The War.
2) Incoming veterans
3) The thorny mine problem

Which incidentally will be addressed in one form or another next update.

Otherwise, we will need to address our forest consumption and disloyal subordinates.
 
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