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Paths of Civilization

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PrimalShadow said:
Block housing doesn't block new cities, though? It reduces other city attractiveness by all of one; that really isn't enough to change matters.

In fact, if anything, this narrows our LTE threshold, since a constant reduction to every threshold decreases the pop threshold by 1, but the reform threshold goes down by 0.5, which means that the space between reforming and popping gets narrower and narrower.
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Block housing does, since free cities with multilevel Block Housing moves the fringe cities out of consideration, even with Aqueducts, their needed EE value is just too low.

Glassware said:
Freehills is a fascinating state, I hope we take more values from them in the future though I do think we'd have been better off if we'd kept them small rather than turning them into a Great Power. Our next value should be the Harmurri trade value though, I want to see what that's about and if it avoids the pitfalls of Center of Trade due to them not having had to fight much thanks to the Ymaryn.
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Freehills seems to have kept a variant of Rule of Gold though, if how they finance their armies sounds right.

They're a capitalist, democratic, former rebelling colony that grew into a Great Power.
 
veekie said:
Block housing does, since free cities with multilevel Block Housing moves the fringe cities out of consideration, even with Aqueducts, their needed EE value is just too low.
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Right now, basically regardless of what we do, we are going to have 4-5 nonfree cities possible. I don't think that is going to change with a couple of block-housing levels.
 
ThrawnCA said:
If I'm reading correctly, it only applies an attraction penalty to cities that lack block housing. So, it increases the divide between have and have-not cities.
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Out of curiosity, i decided to do the math for once blackmouth has block housing:

-Blackmouth [Governor's Palace, Aqueduct, Baths, Market {x2}, Sig. Walls?] [Block Housing] (31 EE Threshold)
[20 (Base) + 5 (Block Housing) + 6 (Infrastructure) = 31]

-Valleyhome [Capital, Palace, Aqueduct, Baths, Market {x2}, Sig. Walls] (26 EE Threshold)
[31 (Base) + 7 (Infrastructure) - 4 (Penalty) - 8 (No Block Housing) = 26]

-Sacred Forest [Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls] (24 EE Threshold)
[26 (Inherit) - 5 (Penalty) + 3 (Infrastructure) = 24]

-Stallion Pen [Aqueduct, Mass. Walls] (20 EE Threshold)
[24 (Inherit) - 6 (Penalty) + 2 (Infrastructure) = 20]

-Lower Valleyhome [Aqueduct] (14 EE Threshold)
[20 (Inherit) - 7 (Penalty) + 1 (Infrastructure) = 14]

That is, Blackmouth will increase its threshold by 9, valleyhome will increase its threshold by 6, and the other cities will increase by 4.

THen, if/when valleyhome gets BH: (Also includes blackmouth getting BH)

-Valleyhome [Capital, Palace, Aqueduct, Baths, Market {x2}, Sig. Walls] [Block Housing] (32 EE Threshold)
[20 (Base) + 7 (Infrastructure) + 5 (Block Housing) = 32]

-Blackmouth [Governor's Palace, Aqueduct, Baths, Market {x2}, Sig. Walls?] [Block Housing] (39 EE Threshold)
[32 (Inherit) - 4 (Penalty) + 6 (Infrastructure) + 5 (Block Housing)= 39]

-Sacred Forest [Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls] (28 EE Threshold)
[39 (Inherit) - 5 (Penalty) + 3 (Infrastructure) - 9 (No Block Housing) = 28]

-Stallion Pen [Aqueduct, Mass. Walls] (24 EE Threshold)
[28 (Inherit) - 6 (Penalty) + 2 (Infrastructure) = 24]

-Lower Valleyhome [Aqueduct] (18 EE Threshold)
[24 (Inherit) - 7 (Penalty) + 1 (Infrastructure) = 18]

Which increases valleyhome by another 6, blackmouth by another 8, and the other cities by another 4

...Which is kind of ridiculous and in general a weird result? Not sure if its what AN intends...
 
Abby Normal said:
Which increases valleyhome by another 6, blackmouth by another 8, and the other cities by another 4

...Which is kind of ridiculous and in general a weird result? Not sure if its what AN intends...
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Well, the first two are logical enough. Valleyhome switches from a -8 penalty to a +5 bonus, which accounts for 13 points of shift.

The rest are just dragged up by the rising tide (ie inheritance).

But why aren't you applying a block housing penalty to Sacred Forest/Stallion Pen/Lower Valleyhome in scenario 1?
 
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ExNihilo said:
Yes it's catching!

As an idea, throw in New Settlement (Internal Reorg) and possibly Black Soil to combat the LTE loss? And a trade mission to turn 2 of that Diplo into some wealth? (Also the second one has a nice narrative-using those new boats for trading).

Also, I think that -15 LTE is a little high. I think the only thing that deletes LTE is the cash crops? Everything else refunds.
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Sea Dominion
More Warships
-3 Econ, -10 Wealth, -3 Martial, +1 Tech; +2 Naval, additional effects
Build Docks
-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Diplo, potential for new innovations x2, increased trade power
Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
-5 Econ, -5 Econ Expansion, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo with boats, +1 Culture, +1 Econ next turn, other effects
Sailing Mission
-1 Econ, increased effects
Black Soil
-2 Econ, 1 Forest Slot Consumed, -1 Tech, +6 Econ Expansion, other effects
Expand Forests
-3 Econ, -3 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +4 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory, improved odds of success, other effects, +1 Sustainable Forest

Total:
-13 LTE, -5 Wealth, +5 Diplo, +1 Culture, +2 Naval, Unrivaled Mastery Over The Seas.
How do?
 
Titus Stargazer said:
Sea Dominion
More Warships
-3 Econ, -10 Wealth, -3 Martial, +1 Tech; +2 Naval, additional effects
Build Docks
-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Diplo, potential for new innovations x2, increased trade power
Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
-5 Econ, -5 Econ Expansion, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo with boats, +1 Culture, +1 Econ next turn, other effects
Sailing Mission
-1 Econ, increased effects

Total:
-15 LTE, -5 Wealth, +5 Diplo, +1 Tech, +1 Culture, +2 Naval, Unrivaled Mastery Over The Seas.
Pretty dumb, but I had fun.
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Rule Ymaryn, Ymaryn rules the waves.

Citino said:
Oh god, we're france?
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Vive les arbres?
 
ThrawnCA said:
Well, the first two are logical enough. Valleyhome switches from a -8 penalty to a +5 bonus, which accounts for 13 points of shift.

The rest are just dragged up by the rising tide (ie inheritance).
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Yeah, its more the blackmouth part. If the +5 bonus from block housing worked like the penalty did (only apply to first applicable city), then it would be more reasonable: +6 to valleyhome, +3 to blackmouth, and then -1 to the other cities
 
veekie said:
They're a capitalist, democratic, former rebelling colony that grew into a Great Power.
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Do we know they're capitalist? Like, they probably are but do we have evidence to support it?

ThrawnCA said:
I think you misunderstand how many passive policies we will have. Have you read the beta rules for the new government system?

There will be a passive policy per province, and per Free City, of which we will control half, and the factions control the other half.
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God... such much policy >.<
veekie said:
Yeah, Division of Power arose from Freehills thinking "Never again" for a powerful upper class oppressing the lower classes AND as ex-slaves, they are highly aware of the possibility of lower classes becoming higher.

The whole thing is a big parable about Power Corrupting.
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Hmm... will it meld w/ Symphony? Or Greater Justice?
 
ThrawnCA said:
Where does that come from? The action description doesn't imply it.
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"decreases the limit for cities without Block Housing by (5+total number of block housing)"
Which when i first had to calculate it, AN confirmed worked by that penalty being applied to the first city in the list to not have block housing. Because of how inheritance works, this propogates to each lower city, applying once to each.
On the other hand, the bonus for it says "Block Housing increases the city's City Attraction limit by 5"; that is, it adds 5 to the individual city with BH. Because of how inheritance of thresholds works, this adds up quickly, with each instance applying to every city.
 
Umi-san said:
such much policy >.<
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And we need to work out which ones we should do, which ones we think the factions should do, and which ones should be used to power repeated actions instead.

Hmm... will it meld w/ Symphony? Or Greater Justice?
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I doubt it, but I think we should try to evolve Joyous Symphony by working in concert with the factions.
 
Abby Normal said:
"decreases the limit for cities without Block Housing by (5+total number of block housing)"
Which when i first had to calculate it, AN confirmed worked by that penalty being applied to the first city in the list to not have block housing. Because of how inheritance works, this propogates to each lower city, applying once to each.
On the other hand, the bonus for it says "Block Housing increases the city's City Attraction limit by 5"; that is, it adds 5 to the individual city with BH. Because of how inheritance of thresholds works, this adds up quickly, with each instance applying to every city.
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OK. The +4 for all the others makes sense then. They inherit the +5, but with the -1 penalty.

...BTW How do you choose the base city?
 
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Titus Stargazer said:
Sea Dominion
More Warships
-3 Econ, -10 Wealth, -3 Martial, +1 Tech; +2 Naval, additional effects
Build Docks
-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Diplo, potential for new innovations x2, increased trade power
Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
-5 Econ, -5 Econ Expansion, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo with boats, +1 Culture, +1 Econ next turn, other effects
Sailing Mission
-1 Econ, increased effects
Black Soil
-2 Econ, 1 Forest Slot Consumed, -1 Tech, +6 Econ Expansion, other effects
Expand Forests
-3 Econ, -3 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +4 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory, improved odds of success, other effects, +1 Sustainable Forest

Total:
-13 LTE, -5 Wealth, +5 Diplo, +1 Culture, +2 Naval, Unrivaled Mastery Over The Seas.
How do?
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I think you are doing LTE calcs wrong? I'm going to check your math.

Sea Dominion
More Warships
-3 Econ, -10 Wealth, -3 Martial, +1 Tech; +2 Naval, additional effects
Build Docks
-2 Econ, -2 Wealth, +3 Diplo, potential for new innovations x2, increased trade power
Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
-5 Econ, -5 Econ Expansion, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo with boats, +1 Culture, +1 Econ next turn, other effects
Sailing Mission
-1 Econ, increased effects
Black Soil
-2 Econ, 1 Forest Slot Consumed, -1 Tech, +6 Econ Expansion, other effects
Expand Forests
-3 Econ, -3 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +4 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory, improved odds of success, other effects, +1 Sustainable Forest

So simplified to only relevant data, that's:
-3 econ (+3 EE) from warships-0 net LTE
-2 econ (+2 EE) from docks-0 net LTE
-5 econ(+5 EE) from crops-0 net LTE
-5 EE from crops
-1 econ(+1 EE) from sailing mission-0 net LTE
-2 econ(+2 EE) from Black Soil-0 net LTE
+6 EE from Black Soil
-3 Econ (+3 EE) from Forests-0 net LTE
-3 EE from forests
+4 Econ from Forests (Next turn) (Repeated means it happens every turn)+4 net LTE

Now that's -5 LTE from Crops, +6 from Black Soil, and -3+4 from trees. That's +2 LTE, unless I'm mistaken. And I could very well be, Econ, EE, and LTE can be confusing, and I'm really not sure at all with the forests.

 
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ExNihilo said:
Regularly that would eat EE, but who knows?
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Every other +Econ action lists its Econ Expansion cost, except Build Mills, which doesn't consume Econ Expansion. And Expand Forest deliberately specifies its turn 1 Econ Expansion cost.

So I'm betting on it not costing Econ Expansion on turn 2.

Also, I'm assuming that the delayed payoff represents the time taken for trees to grow, and the Econ Expansion cost represents the land used to plant them. So all of the EE cost ought to be up-front.
 
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