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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
 
8bitBob said:
It's 4 wealth per action, not 6. It adds 2 wealth cost to an action that costed none before. This is doable.
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Barely. We're at 7 Wealth right now. If we have to take -4 wealth/action on the dam, that's a massive slowdown in our advancement, especially since the doubling costs also wipes out almost all of our wealth income and we have very little LTE to pay for cash crops.

We NEED those infrastructure passives, at least 2x and really 3x. We can remove them once the markets are built, but without those markets we're screwed on the wealth costs, and even with them the wonder-dam is gonna be a massive pain to pay for.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Please don't do this.

I know people like the idea, but it's simply terrible. For one, it's not going to last, not in this time and age.

In the meantime, it'll crash our economy and nearly kill our civilization. The Spite quests will be impossible to fulfill, especially with the extra wealth costs. The hits will be devastating.
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I honestly do not see other options acceeptable to me.
 
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)

Going for sane dam. It's an engineering project that's expensive enough without blatant dick measuring.
 
@Academia Nut about how likely is "possible loss of slavery prohibition"?
(And i suppose could @PrimalShadow use his boon for math to boost the chances of keeping the prohibition? I wasn't sure if his boon got used up on the grand hall thing or if that was just what you went with for the lost action)
 
drake_azathoth said:
Eh, a flood of 'at any cost' votes was inevitable given the issue. Please don't let it get to you, there's plenty of time for votes to be made and things to swing one way or another. A lot of people won't vote until they know what the fallout of these decisions will be.
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I want slavery to go away, but not at the cost of fucking us and then slavery happening anyways because its efficient this early. But Morality trumps practical pragmatic attitudes in many cases. If we can tank this hit I will keep my support for it but otherwise...
 
Academia Nut said:
10 Wealth if you double costs.
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Glassware said:
If we double wealth costs then that's 10 wealth. And barring veekie coming in with his "this is impossible to pull off in the Iron Age" doom & gloom, we're probably taking the option to reform our system in the face of systematic injustice.
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Raichu1972 said:
Reworking the Half Exiles would make it cost 10 wealth, which would be basically impossible for us to generate and complete without us going into temporary negative Wealth, plus the increased Wealth requirements from anything else.
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If we double Wealth costs, sure. But that's not a sure thing quite yet. (Don't try to convince me otherwise, please? At least let me hope.)
 
Academia Nut said:
[] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
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Is this a permanent no-way-around-it increase, or is there any way we might feasibly mitigate it without compromising on the half-exile/slavery issue?

Honestly, in my ideal world we wouldn't be looking at taking this for about another century or so - now's not really a great time for it - but the dice fall as they will.

Academia Nut said:
It was admittedly much worse before a clerk pointed something out to the king.

Thanks @Abby Normal
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Jeeze, what did he point out?
 
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
 
8bitBob said:
If we had way more passives to allocate, sure, but we don't. We need City Support for Mass Levy because Highlanders are coming, Vassal Support for Loyalty, Infrastructure for markets/priest quest and Skullduggery for problems.
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You really want to call the Mass Levy at a time when the Patricians, the Guilds and the Traders hate the King and the government? This sounds like the receipt for a coup, where the Patricians lead the easily manipulated armed masses that are dependent on them and the guilds for their pay against our own government palace.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Is this a permanent no-way-around-it increase, or is there any way we might feasibly mitigate it without compromising on the half-exile/slavery issue?

Honestly, in my ideal world we wouldn't be looking at taking this for about another century or so - now's not really a great time for it - but the dice fall as they will.


Jeeze, what did he point out?
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AN said it represents increased labor costs, so they will likely continue to be that expensive unless we start getting either a lot of automation through Mills and other tech, or we find some other way to get really cheap labor (not very likely).

It sucks, but I refuse to compromise the values of the Ymaryn over this, and I'm not going to gamble with getting slavery of all things.
People have been talking about looking into the Half Exile issue for forever: here is our chance.
 
I think we might want to do a Survey action next turn. Gold and silver would help pay for the increased costs.
 
8bitBob said:
If we had way more passives to allocate, sure, but we don't. We need City Support for Mass Levy because Highlanders are coming, Vassal Support for Loyalty, Infrastructure for markets/priest quest and Skullduggery for problems.
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We do have other passives incoming as soon as we finish off the government reform. However we currently are on a wealth crunch and won't be able to increase martial without any wealth. Keeping on until the next turn we can build the available Salterns we have then switching over to others is my goal.
 
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Hah the half exile system while being mistreated is what is keeping us competitive in this age. People seem to find doubke wealth costs not that big a deal when it would significantly prevent us from doing a lot of stuff not to mention that with all the factions being pissed our innovation will be shot by the traders. It is also quite clear that we will have to go to war soon this is simply not the age for the abolition of slavery if we want the ymaryn to stay whole and unconquered.

[X] [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)

This on the other hand may be good for us, justice should not be blind and it should definitely take into acount factors and beliefs of others. I never really liked how outlr societ is based on the needs of the many out weigh the few.
 
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