If that's the only thing that we can do for the next ten turns, we'll split anyway once a fire starts.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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If that's the only thing that we can do for the next ten turns, we'll split anyway once a fire starts.
I see.
I take it you aren't interested in the government upgrade that will let us handle things better?
Or, say, the Marketplace + Bazaar which will mitigate much of our wealth woes for the future?
Or repairing our Stability & Legitimacy when it inevitably goes down due to refugees and other factors?
Or restoring relations with our trading partners so that trade starts going again and we don't end up losing the International Games from lack of other nations?
If you don't get to do any of these things, AS IS IMPLIED BY YOUR STATEMENT, is it still worth it?
On the "let's not have subordinates split away so fast" front, we should probably build theatres.
Pretty sure the "additional effects" are relevant for cultural influence and maintaining a Ymaryn identity, and the stat costs are pretty negligible.
Not urgent, but not actually that hard to squeeze into one turn or another, once we've a wealth buffer again.
Pretty sure the "additional effects" are relevant for cultural influence and maintaining a Ymaryn identity, and the stat costs are pretty negligible.
Not urgent, but not actually that hard to squeeze into one turn or another, once we've a wealth buffer again.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
Considering all the other shit we tried to fix it, has gone in flames? Yes.
- We have had a Government upgrade, did that Fix it? No.
- We have overflowed with wealth for multiple turns in a row, did that Fix it? No.
- Having high Stability and Legitimacy for a long time, did that Fix it? No
- Having good trading partners, did that Fix it? No.
There is no "Magic" Tech that allows us to circumvent the Bill because you balk at the cost. (Its not even in blood which is the part about being reluctant I don't get. It evens involves helping our people.)
- Location
- USA
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- He/Him
Once our stat situation is in good stead, I like the combination of Academy, Improve Annual Festival, and Build Theatre
You're... serious? You'd really rather discard every other facet of our society so long as we have loyal and dependent subordinates..?
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keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
I rather have a cohesive Society, then break because of the Siren Call of "Shiny".
Its not like all the other ideas haven't been tried before, its just for some reason they just don't want to admit we should take the action that reunifies the nation instead of faffing about and hoping their secondary effects will give us what we want.
- Location
- USA
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- He/Him
But... we are taking it. Taking the action and doing nothing but it for ten turns are entirely different things.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
Obviously if we are fully united before that point we don't need to keep beating that dead horse.
(Also either remove your "Funny" rating or stop arguing with me seriously as you consider my viewpoint a joke.)
If the subordinates become that high maintenance they aren't worth having at all. I mean, the way I see it they already aren't worth having aside from the trouble they'd cause us if they were free, and we should aim to integrate them ASAP. But I'd actually be willing to say it's better to cut them loose and kick their asses later when they become regular scum if they required so many actions.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Gods, YES, it did! If we hadn't had a triplet of heroes, and our King (Rulwyna) a double hero, we would have flat out collapsed shortly before the reform!
I'm really not sure what you even want here! So because the good times didn't last forever it was all for nothing? Isn't having high stability and overflowing wealth kind of things we aim for?
And besides, you're conflating issues. Our original "subordinates developing a divergent culture" woes were with Heaven Hawks, Stallion Tribes and Western Wall. Our current ones are with Western Wall, Greenshore and Tinriver. We did solve the original problems for the most part; we just got new colonies and hence eventually new problems.
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Oh god, I can't even begin to overstate the importance of theatres. They'll give us a much better cultural identity and greatly improve the common man's knowledge and interest on more esoteric knowledge of sorts.
It may not be math, but art is an education in and of itself.
The opium was to replace the silver, because they were draining too much silver away for tea and porcelain.
Populism is powerful as hell. Just that the mob is fickle compared to just about any other faction.
Don't forget they have a charioteer elite, which means an exposure vector.
Symphony peaceout?
Not a problem though, heroic mystic king can handle super high RA and the patricians will switch their boost soon.
Supports pay them Econ. They take the actions to spend that econ I think.
Wine containers and dye containers would be useful for being able to see the contents.
More like a Senate for the period appropriate stuff.
Now we'd have a place for the Patricians to give the King headaches together as a group!
Traders will want to suppress innovations that obsolete lucrative markets. So any innovation that might obsolete a trade good or make it cheaper to produce in bulk might trigger them. Might.
No, Arsenals aren't the Tech Refund source. Tech refund was Shrine 1 + Library 1 + Arsenal 1.
You need more Palaces to get more.
While I'm against switching OFF forestry I'm eager to reestablish Infrastructure policies.
The important parts are:
-It's the first clear form of glass we have. Previous glass was various shades of green or brown depending on the source sand. This is progress towards crystal and true clear glass to attain Optical Glass.
-The process involves discovering how to flux unwanted materials out of the molten glass. This is important because this is the SAME chemistry involved in tuning the amount of carbon and impurities in steel, which was a part of what made Blast Furnaces work.
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Was going to update, exhaustion kicked in and knocked me down. Ah well, update tomorrow probably.
Don't move the goalposts. You didn't suggest we take ONE action to fix this; you suggested we take TEN TURNS WORTH of actions.
That is kinda like being overweight, knowing you need to exercise to solve the problem, and deciding to work out for ten days straight, with no restroom breaks, food, or water. And then you say that if you can lose that extra weight, it will all have been worth it.
Except you will be dead, since people can't survive without water for that long.
But it still would have been worth it, right? That is what you are saying, at least.
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Also, if they start asking for stupid shit and you go to suppress them, they will tank your innovation, while if you cater to their whims they will accelerate your innovation... possibly beyond your ability to cope.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
What I want? Is be the worlds only superpower by the modern age is the simplest answer.
Regarding the three Great Heroes, that was for adminsterative purposes, not having them leave of their free will.
And because we are having problems with subordinates breaking away and becoming not-Ymaryn, its supposed to substantially different that because they are new colonies the problems aren't the same? Disloyal and Alien Vassals are the same thing no matter what time periods or direction they veer off to.
And the Good Times just papered over everything as what was revealed when they Ended. Its not like the problems weren't there, it was just no one could hear the complaints over the Jubilee.
Or Fixing and Reunifying is worth it no matter the damn cost. Or that we need to do it ASAP instead of putting it off even more and just them go "as they clearly were too much of a bother to keep" when everyone balks at paying anything at all to keep them. Clearly Stopping when that has been achieved is also something I have been less than clear on. I should have Specified.
(Btw Thank you George for removing the "Funny" rating, Most Kind of you.)
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We have a rather high quality Trader quest right now, but I'm definitely interested in keeping them low power given that confirmation on how they will wield their power. 3 Faction Power is probably acceptable, but I'm quite interested in not going higher than that.
Patricians adding their power to the Traders could be nighmarish or our sole savior in dark times.
Patricians adding their power to the Traders could be nighmarish or our sole savior in dark times.
Um. You say that, but by mechanics they are one of the less fickle factions. Patricians can support/suppress someone, which can be a major boon, or can throw a major wrench in things if the Patricians want to throw a tantrum. And Traders can boost or hinder innovation. As for Priests, while their boost is relatively constant, it is also something that can be a good thing or a bad thing; don't know if that qualifies as "fickle", though.
The thing about Trader quests is that, as written, adding faction power to the roll just isn't that remarkable. Remember that the roll is a d100; single-digit bonuses on it just aren't that big of a deal.
The Grand Palace and the resulting upgrades fixed our problem for a time, then we went ahead and swallowed up even more territory.
Each upgrade clearly allowed us to administrate more territory.
And AN just told us that they might accelerate technological changes beyond a level we can safely handle.
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There's a multiplier.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
The mechanism was the same: We had a central government that was absolutely not suited for handling such large an empire, so the outer parts began to increasingly slip central control and do their own thing, societally and culturally. Oh, and because we had a shit government form, we also had never enough actions to do anything about it. The only reason we didn't collapse outright were the heroes, so yes, the government reform was direly needed and saved us from outright collapse.
But as our empire further grows, the current government form will also become insufficient. Hence the clamouring for government reform - this time we hopefully can change to a better system before things get near-collapse catastrohical again. And if we have better administration, we'll also be better able to take care of our subordinates, so they won't as easily do their own thing.
But they haven't always been "disloyal and alien". I mean, we're talking about the subordinates directly settled by us, subordinates formed from Ymaryn settlers and not subordinates of foreign cultures like Txolla and Thunder Horse. They all started out in tune with and loyal to us, and then later diverged. But there were two cases of colonies becoming divergent - the Stallions etc, which was solved, and then now the western colonies. And those are two separate cases.
Though I grant they may have some underlying similarity in causes, but those have mostly to do with that the people in those regions by necessity have a different lifestyle. The core is over-populated and urban; the northern and western periphery borders the steppe and is settled by free-minded colonists and their descendants. Also, they're weak outposts constantly in threat of conflict with more powerful neighbours. So, almost by necessity, the culture in those regions will be more individualist and martial than the culture in the Core. That is due to external circumstances, and what can we do about those?
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
Trying to upgrade to be more able to administrate more territory is not the same as letting the Ymaryn fracture because people Balk at the cost. 18 stats at a turn? To not cause a failure cascade as every vassal sees the writing on the wall and realize people don't to pay in either blood (Civil War) or Stats (Influence) and jump ship to make things easier for themselves.
sorry @Susano I posted right after you, and so didn't see your response. I will need to think to argue against your point (s).
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Upgrade will let us be able to listen to their concerns much better and make them happy. We will able to integrate more provinces and leverage more resources, and the provinces will be able to leverage our infrastructure policies to build aqueducts and governor palace and all kind of neat stuff.
Meanwhile, an influence action is a short term fix to tide us over loyalty-wise. Long term, we need more roads, better horses, and more boats and better administrative abilities, which means not just administrative tech but government upgrade.
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
AN told us last update that that was already included in the vote:
Though on that note i suppose to be accurate i should change it to -2 refugees, +1 symphony instead of just -1 refugees.
Aside from AN saying there's a multiplier:
It would still be a decent bonus. Ignoring crits (which this bonus wouldn't help with) and the fact that there's probably some granularity (i.e. "96, thats decently high, good reward vs 81, barely a success, minor improvement), which this would help with for every success, AN has said theres something like a 20% chance of an innovation each roll. Having even a +2 bonus on a 1d100 makes that a 22% chance, which is a bigger increase than it seems; binomial distributions are all kinds of unintuitive, so its probably not actually a 10% increase in innovations, but it should be in that ballpark. With such low success odds, even a minor bonus to the roll is a major increase.