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Paths of Civilization

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DragonParadox said:
I hate to be repetitive but... How are you paying all the wealth you are giving the colonies.
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Look. There's a fucking hellovalot going on here. It's a fast moving thread.

If you have an alternative to suggest, do so. Don't make us voters ask. And don't ask us to search the damn thread, either.

If your really only interested in telling me I'm wrong then good job. You really did the thing you wanted done.
 
loserthree said:
Look. There's a fucking hellovalot going on here. It's a fast moving thread.

If you have an alternative to suggest, do so. Don't make us voters ask. And don't ask us to search the damn thread, either.

If your really only interested in telling me I'm wrong then good job. You really did the thing you wanted done.
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No need to be rude. He's simply pointing out where are you going to get the money to pay for the action.
 
loserthree said:
Look. There's a fucking hellovalot going on here. It's a fast moving thread.

If you have an alternative to suggest, do so. Don't make us voters ask. And don't ask us to search the damn thread, either.

If your really only interested in telling me I'm wrong then good job. You really did the thing you wanted done.
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Our wealth is on the front page, the action cost of influence subordinate is in the list for the last main turn we had. You do not have to "search the damn thread" just look at what the options you are voting for cost relative to our resources before voting.
 
[X] [Enclave] Crack down on the monotheists (Main Hunt Troublemakers, ???)

[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore) x2

[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
[X] [Enclave] Crack down on the monotheists (Main Hunt Troublemakers, ???)
And Crow said: "Thou shalt have many Gods before me."

[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
Omegahugger is definitely in favour of helping, except if you're a filthy heathen who doesn't recognize Gwy & Goya.

[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
... I do not need to explain, do I?
 
Some arguments in favour of:
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)

-We have a prophecy with a good roll that tells us it is a good idea:
Academia Nut said:
Astrological Prediction: True wealth comes from our interactions with others (63)
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-Since the Harmurri are also trade dudes getting in contact with them could be enough to degrade the halted trade to disrupted trade, thus giving us +(3?) Wealth per turn, thus lessening our need to waste actions on cash crops.
-Restoring contact with them while the people in power still vividly remember how stuff was before the plague could give us a free Invite action since it would just be a return to normalcy for both of them.
-I dont think we will get that many refugees. The Harmurri are far away and have iirc never sent us refugees because of that. The Freehills might not have been hit as badly since...
Academia Nut said:
could dwell within the lungs of cows and horses
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... they dont seem like the kind of people with vast herds of cows and horses.
-With the death of the Trelli and the flight of the Khem the Freehills probably are about to get really, really swole if they can get all these territories. If we establish contact now we can continue positive relations and let our influence prevent some of the negative consequences from conquering all these slavers.
- The strait. Sort of similar to the above, but there are like three probable consequences to the Trelli explosion. We take the Straits, Freehills takes the Strait or someone else grabs it (Like for example the Trelli Colonies in the Saffron Isles might not have been hit as hard and could just found Neo-Trelli). I we take the Strait, we want to be bros with Freehills because defending the trade post during the war with them would be hard. If they take the Strait, we want to be bros with them so they dont fuck us over with the power they gain from it. The last case can be made less probable if we help Freehills return to normalcy and if some Neo-Trelli really forms, we would want to be bros with Freehills to smite the Slavers together while they are still weak.
-While we dont know much ye about how the religion mechanics work, it is probably highly profitabel for us to have other people share ours. I think the both of them might have already adopted it, but we do have the annoying Schism trait on it. If we re-establish contact as soon as possible we can maybe prevent some nasty historical messes.
- We dont have fancy numbers describing how much our neighbours like us to maximise, but riding in while they are dealing with this plague and lecturing them with all the stuff we just learnt will impress the hell out of them. That might be how we earn a Legacy, since we didnt get one just for surviving.
In addition they could also have found other useful health stuff to deal with this sickness they would probably be willing to share with us. Especially the Harmurri with their indian ocean trade probably have lots of fun stuff we dont have.
-This should be a pushback against Purity. Just focusing on internal stuff and taking boring stability stuff seems like a really pure way to choose.
 
Here are the stat values that we (mostly) have as of now, including the Yeomen reward; AN may very well make some changes

Stat Values
Diplomacy 25
Economy 24
-EE 21
-SF 27{32}/30
Martial 7
-LC 3
Wealth 8
Culture 27
Mysticism 27(+8)
Tech 23(+8)

Stability 0
Centralization 8~10
RA 7{14}

*Possible +1 Culture (overflows to +1 Tech) if True Cities do still produce 1/2 Culture each.
*Likely Econ loss from Plague Rotted Economy
*Assumes a Religious Settlement gives +1 EE and nothing else.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Salt Gift because that is how you deal with Nomads. Non-negotiable.
Restoring Stability because haha Purity bullshit needs to be counterbalanced.
Influencing WW just makes sense.

Forests with Heroic Mystic after Plague are good to have.
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I agree with all these points narratively, but mechanically, this takes us super-deep into negative wealth.

Just this turn, we go:
8 Wealth (starting)
-8 (Main salt gift)
-2 (Influence subordinate)
--------------------------------
-2 Wealth total.

Since we are spending enough not to get any overflow into Wealth, this will immediately be followed up with us getting MORE negatives, since our wealth income is currently negative.

Lets not play this game, eh?
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)

No real preference for the PSN vote.
 
Omegahugger said:
... I do not need to explain, do I?
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You do, especially the part where you explain how you do plan to pay for all these shinies without any wealth generating action
Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Oct 31, 2017 at 8:20 AM, finished with 124193 posts and 53 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Oct 31, 2017 at 12:18 PM, finished with 124291 posts and 73 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Oct 31, 2017 at 3:52 PM, finished with 124407 posts and 80 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Oct 31, 2017 at 5:04 PM, finished with 124466 posts and 82 votes.
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[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)x2

Guys, please, please, don't let the colonies go. Especially as an uppity colony could go and grab Trell.

If we get WW and Greenshore, Tinshore will most likely fall in line. If we let Greenshore and Tinshore be, they will form a powerblock and will likely go off on their own.
 
So, some idle thoughts about simplifying stats because I have no reason to argue against the winning vote (we need everything anyway).

I mean, what ideas of simplifying stats do we have?
1. Merge Econ+EE into one stat (LTE?), thus removing Expand Econs, Agri policy and CS policies and generally simplifying pieces of stat crunch. A bit of loss of details , but not that big of a deal IMO, compared to decrease in scary numbers. Not sure about this one, but, like...we are going to take as many EEs as needed to feed us anyway, so making us do it is pointless busywork IMO.

2. Make some things into automatic stuff going on in the background without actions, like, say, surveys by guilds. Make survey into passive policy?

3. Remove overflows: they make calculations harder and only make sense if you squint very hard at stats. Would require a rebalancing of actions probably. Instead make each overflowing stat roll for GA-esque innovation, with a lower probability of proccing for balance's sake. Which actually makes more narrative sense than overflows IMO.

4. Simplify transition between phases and when incomes/expenses/whatever come in. Somehow. Each of those is still a years-long project, so one coming strictly before the other is a bit weird.

5. We have several different variations of "guilds craft things", "cash crops" and other things. Probably can be simplified. The idea of simplification: just add generic "guilds do their things" and add foci on different areas - porcelain, glass, whatever - via write-in; otherwise it's a generic business doing business. Same with cash crops, same with army-rising actions (especially since "blackbirds" are not a separate stat).

5.1. Study actions probably can be rolled into a general "science stuff going on" with an option of specific focus too.


Those are very half-baked, but eh. Ideas?
 
Here is our wealth income for next turn:
Maintainance
-1 (PK upkeep)
-1 (Academy Upkeep)
-1 (Iron Age Law Upkeep)
-3 (Doubled Innovation Cost on our Base Innovation, Harbor Innovation, and Innovation Policy)

Units
-3 (Unit Upkeep) Units paid from main budget

Trade
+1.5 Redshore Market
+1 Valleyhome Market Valleyhome is not currently a city
+3 Strategic Goods No External Trade
+3 Luxury Goods No External Trade
+1 Salterns (Southshore, Northshore)
+1 Gold Mines (<Unknown Province>, Heaven's Hawk)
+0.5 Salt Mines (Heaven's Hawk)
+1 Salt/Gold Trading (Amber Road, Grand Docks) No External Trade

Total
Either [-3] or [-2], depending on where the 2.5 income from gold/salt combines with the 1.5 income from the Markets to make +4, or if Salt/Gold and Marketplaces each take their own totals and round down for a total of 2+1=3.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)x2

Guys, please, please, don't let the colonies go. Especially as an uppity colony could go and grab Trell.

If we get WW and Greenshore, Tinshore will most likely fall in line. If we let Greenshore and Tinshore be, they will form a powerblock and will likely go off on their own.
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If this is anything like the Stallion Tribes crisis, we shouldn't be too worried of them breaking off. During that crisis, one of our subordinates was threatening to break away if our legitimacy+stability was <= 0, at which point we would have suffered from a tantrum spiral, and the next subordinate would have left immediately as our legitimacy+stability would be <= -1, and so on and so forth.

So long as we aren't distracted in the east by a nomad horde, are no longer heavily suffering from a plague, have high stability and legitimacy, and take away a core member of the potential new polity (Western Wall), the other two subordinates should not feel secure enough to break away on their own. Especially since Tinriver was at 4 loyalty and 4 dependence before the plague hit. With the currently leading vote, Greenshore is going to be deciding whether it wants to go independent and risk being violently suppressed by the relatively healthy core Ymaryn, the bribed Western Wall, and the loyal Tinriver.
 
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Rakuhn said:
If this is anything like the Stallion Tribes crisis, we shouldn't be too worried of them breaking off. During that crisis, one of our subordinates was threatening to break away if our legitimacy+stability was <= 0, at which point we would have suffered from a tantrum spiral, and the next subordinate would have left immediately as our legitimacy+stability would be <= -1, and so on and so forth.

So long as we aren't distracted in the east by a nomad horde, are no longer heavily suffering from a plague, have high stability and legitimacy, and take away a core member of the potential new polity (Western Wall), the other two subordinates should not feel secure enough to break away on their own. Especially since Tinriver was at 4 loyalty and 4 dependence before the plague hit. With the currently leading vote, Greenshore is going to be deciding whether it wants to go independent and risk being violently suppressed by the relatively healthy core Ymaryn, the bribed Western Wall, and the loyal Tinriver.
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I'm not sure on that, here they are already halfway through breaking. They are seriously probing for the possibility to fully cut ties.

We need to come down hard on them, or it shows enough weakness that they will feel confident enough in commiting.
 
I really hope that our Heroic Admin King can keep timing from screwing us, since we are going to be hitting -2 Wealth this turn.

At least with Poppies we go back up to 5 wealth, which is enough to pay for our income next turn. That doesn't leave much (all of 2~3 wealth, to be precise), but it is better then nothing.
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes toGreenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)

Temp vote until stats come out. But I think it's pretty good.
 
Oh boy the downtrodden half-exiles who were purged from the cities and the monotheistics are joining hands in a society that is obsessed with purity and hates them

I NEVER SAW THIS COMINGVWHEN WHEN WE HAD THE CHOOSE TO ADRESS THE SYSTEMETIC OPRESSION BUT DIDN'T

Hear that? It's me screaming internally to the point of external screaming.

[x] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
 
Lilithium said:
Oh boy the downtrodden half-exiles who were purged from the cities and the monotheistics are joining hands in a society that is obsessed with purity and hates them
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Nope. There is no indication that that is happening. What IS happening is that there are enough of these people that "there were now enclaves of People who many thought of as being universally tainted".

So the problem is that the Ymaryn are starting to culturally internalize ghettoing, not that all our outcasts are banding together.
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore) x2
[PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
Noxious said:
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore) x2
[PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
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This puts us at -4 wealth this turn and -6~7 wealth next turn. o_O
 
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