We could go with the long-term diplo-annex strategy. Very long-term. Because really we only want to be annexing people when things are less on fire, and clearly when you're the King of the Hill, you enter a fire singularity, where the situation only moves in one direction.
At best, things are always on a slow burn anyway.

Seriously now, helping someone else take Constantinople is just... I honestly can't think of a proper metaphor.

Anyone that holds that place can strangle our civilization. Anyone that holds it will grow extraordinarily rich and influential, especially over the Black Sea regions.

It's one of the single greatest assets for our Civ we could possibly take.
 
At best, things are always on a slow burn anyway.

Seriously now, helping someone else take Constantinople is just... I honestly can't think of a proper metaphor.

Anyone that holds that place can strangle our civilization. Anyone that holds it will grow extraordinarily rich and influential, especially over the Black Sea regions.

It's one of the single greatest assets for our Civ we could possibly take.

I agree, hence why I ultimately went with the option to attack the strait.
 
> Literally one of the most defensible positions in the entire fucking world.
It does when the thing some people like my self are worried about the action sink it could turn into, instead of the actual feasibility of holding it.
Feasibly we can hold it if we get to it first, which is decently likely, but the question then becomes "How many actions are we going to have to sink into defending it, and where will we find those actions?"

I mean at this point the Mercs might be able to handle it, but the action commitment from Lords Loyalty varies with each situation.

Letting Free Hills have doesn't work. You know why? It gives yet another Civ the power to choke us out.

It's a massive strategical weakness.
Sure... if they were a Great Power inclined to attack us. They're not, for reasons I will get into. And taking Trelli will not increase them to that point immediately. It would with time, and I'll get to that in a minute. Them "Chocking us out" actually does very little from what we can gather from our experience under the Trelli. It didn't matter at all until we paid for strait access. That's in trade.

In Naval Freehill can do even less. Our Navy's tech is advanced compared to theirs (likely Trelli Pre-Implosion), with them mostly having galleys while we have galleys and war catamarans and naval rams(they might have these). Additionally they are not said to be very port focused in their home territory, so we can say they either have a Naval score of 0 or near ours since they have not had exceptionally long to build up. And then on top of this, they have not had access to the Trelli Grand Docks since they broke away, which means we have an indelible lead on them even if they get the Docks if they take over Trelli and this lead is compounded by the combo of our Grand Docks and Artisan Games. They are unlikely to break this lead.

They would also just lose the land war, in the sense of being pushed all the way back to the cities considering their small size compared to us and our relative populations.

As to growing with time, that is a natural result of them finding ways to use their new wealth income. Probably some kind of merc army, though different from Trelli's more than likely. This is not a fast process however, and the more time we spend working on them diplomatically means the more amicable to them we are and the more we can negotiate mutually beneficial relationship until we get the option to annex them with diplo.

So looking at this from the perspective of a logical leader, the sensible course is to accept the help of the Ymaryn and then get the best deal you can out of it. You get a new city, shit tons of wealth, minor friendship with the local Bugfuck Nuts Great Power, while the Ymaryn get a troublesome city off their heads, renewed contact with the outside world via middle man which means not having to deal with Not!Med problems, and a lot of wealth too.

Looking at the map of our empire, we don't need Trelli with a sense of deathly urgency from what I can see. We do need it at some point in the next three or so centuries but there are many other trade avenues we could explore like going to the Far East Salt Sea or through the Harmurri. Vassalwise we are also getting Vassal Support it looks like and that focuses on trouble areas so West Wall is covered and the other things on the West Shore are pretty handled too.


If we do take it though, *shrug*. I expect it to feel like shoving our heads into hot oil, but I've been pleasantly surprised before so I'll hope that happens again and we get to reap really rather awesome benefits. I ain't gonna complain regardless of how it turns out.
 
......This sounds like the perfect time for the Highlanders to attack...the treacherous scheming scums.

Let's hope our forces in the Ymaryn heartlands will be enough to stop them.
 
At best, things are always on a slow burn anyway.

Seriously now, helping someone else take Constantinople is just... I honestly can't think of a proper metaphor.

Anyone that holds that place can strangle our civilization. Anyone that holds it will grow extraordinarily rich and influential, especially over the Black Sea regions.

It's one of the single greatest assets for our Civ we could possibly take.

Not everyone is memetic SB quester who wants to kill the world.
They can give us trouble, sure, but they have not a single reason to and they are going to die if they try. OTOH, if they cooperate, they get filthy rich and get into good graces of one of two local superpowers.
They stand nothing to get and everything to lose from being confrontational with us.
 
......This sounds like the perfect time for the Highlanders to attack...the treacherous scheming scums.

Let's hope our forces in the Ymaryn heartlands will be enough to stop them.
Well its looking like we are making a third Merc company, so depending on timing if the HK try something they may just run into 8 concentrated Merc Martial.


Plus the most likely Causus Beli for them to take, if they take one, is a Take the Crown. Which means we suddenly turn into Vampire Hulk Kudzu as the Yeomen and Poor I guess now unite to go kill some fools.

Speaking of Causus Belis I am not sure what one we are using for grabbing the straits so that might cause some fun next update. *shrug* not sure.
 
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
 
Well its looking like we are making a third Merc company, so depending on timing if the HK try something they may just run into 8 concentrated Merc Martial.


Plus the most likely Causus Beli for them to take, if they take one, is a Take the Crown. Which means we suddenly turn into Vampire Hulk Kudzu as the Yeomen and Poor I guess now unite to go kill some fools.

Speaking of Causus Belis I am not sure what one we are using for grabbing the straits so that might cause some fun next update. *shrug* not sure.

"They May Become A Threat" casus belli :V
 
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
 
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Main Build Gymnasium (Does not advance Reforms, +1 Stability)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
 
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[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
 
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)

[X] [HS] Main Build Gymnasium (Does not advance Reforms, +1 Stability)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance
[X] [HS] Introduce an elite core (Sec More Spiritbonded + Sec Expand Econ, Reforms advance)

[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait

[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
 
We know how to get that, though, we need to grab Block Housing in a True City and then from there it's another infrastructure project. We can actually manage it with a secondary next turn, I think? Then again it might need to be in Redshore or Blackmouth specifically...

Two secondaries. We generally know how Extended Projects scale, and the largest stat cost is typically the amount of progress needed. I.e. we will need 6 progress, which comes to 2 secondaries.
 
A crisis? Clearly what we need is Ein Frischer Fröhlicher Krieg. Except that sounds like a terrible idea.

[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)

[X][HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)

[X][Attack] No one
[X][Attack] Hire out mercenary company
-[X][Attack] Both
--[X][Attack] To Freehills
[X] [Attack] Support Western Ymaryn Against Storm Tribes

[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
 
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[X] [SR] Rotate governors (All periphery states with at least one province cost -1 Diplo/turn each turn, have Min. 2 Loyalty)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
[X] [HS] Main Build Gymnasium (Does not advance Reforms, +1 Stability)
[X] [HS] Introduce an elite core (Sec More Spiritbonded + Sec Expand Econ, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Hire out mercenary company
-[X] [Attack] Red Banner
--[X] [Attack] To Trelli
-[X] [Attack] Dragon Banner
--[X] [Attack] To Freehills
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
 
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[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
 
Conversely, revising my vote:

[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] No one
[X] [Attack] Hire out mercenary company
-[X] [Attack] Both
-[X] [Attack] Red Banner
-[X] [Attack] Dragon Banner
--[X] [Attack] To Freehills
The vote counter doesn't count approval voting for subvotes, since each block is seen as its own unique thing. Could you change your vote to just using both so it gets counted?

Or we pay one company so they don't count towards our vassals slots.
That isn't how it works. Counting a company as party of our Martial means we don't pay them Wealth - but they still count as a subordinate.

And can someone please give me evidence that our centralization won't go to max if we don't take the Trelli?
I did the math a while ago and our max cent currently shouldn't be lower than 12.

Even without doing the math, we are currently at 6 and it is white; no way is 7 next turn going to be red.
 
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