They'd just have to be selfish and willing to defect. Sure, it screws the local guilds, but they got theirs.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Short sighted patricians who are willing to look the other way for a healthy bribe/cut of whatever money they get for facilitating an artisan to go to the Western Ymaryn, who as everyone knows are still People and are related and everything, so it's not like its really a problem, you know?
Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
- Location
- CET
Either way. It looks like we're going to have to liberate/vassalize/punish our traitor kin in the future.
Though another thing that I'm confused about is why we haven't been hearing about the reasons why the colonies are covertly supporting them to undermine the king, aside from greed, which only goes so far. Sure we can guess. But if there are issues that would cause them to actively support the second sons in a civil war, why haven't we been hearing about them? Even if it's just standard breakaway powerplay to defy the core and declare independence or something.
More so. Why would these colonies fight in favor of the WY/Second Sons at this point because even if they win, It looks like they're going to be smashed by nomads without support of the core that they've been trying to weaken?
Though another thing that I'm confused about is why we haven't been hearing about the reasons why the colonies are covertly supporting them to undermine the king, aside from greed, which only goes so far. Sure we can guess. But if there are issues that would cause them to actively support the second sons in a civil war, why haven't we been hearing about them? Even if it's just standard breakaway powerplay to defy the core and declare independence or something.
More so. Why would these colonies fight in favor of the WY/Second Sons at this point because even if they win, It looks like they're going to be smashed by nomads without support of the core that they've been trying to weaken?
Last edited:
A patrician might be short sighted, but as I understand it, our guilds are mostly autonomous state agencies who govern the artisan class; and we have no concept of separation of powers. With Greater Justice valuing the group over the individual, what stops the guilds from dealing with the issue internally? Why are the patricians relevant here?
They pretty much have to have that power otherwise the guilds themselves would have been broken long since, as someone would have bribed themselves out to set up rival guilds, and the system would have collapsed due to the introduction of competition.
They also have to be continually and repeatedly short sighted without a short space of time, as the economy should be sophisticated enough now to require division of labour, so a single or even small number of defecting artisans would be completely screwed, as the concentrated urban supply chain they depend on is missing. A porcelain maker wouldn't have the klm maker, or the high quality's charcoal burner, or the glaze maker, or the dye maker. Unless the Western Ymaryn have a True City, they simply shouldn't have the economies of scale to support the division of labour to support these crafts.
Look at what the Bronze Age Collapse was about. Part of it was the inability to support urban civilisation.and the related specialism that enabled urban civilisation. The Western Ymaryn should be in the same boat for a long time, and will be dependent on purchasing from core Ymaryn. If they get vassalised and we turn off the continual support, they should implode in short order.
Last edited:
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
I think the reason western subsidiary states support West Y is that it allows more room for the sub states to move in political and economic sense. The Core being stupid, in their view, only increased these sentiments; subsidiary states might even feel West Y is an effective counter balance against Core.
No colonies want to remain as mere colony when they have contributed and earned their rights.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Called it
Sounds good to me tbh
I think I'm starting to reach outrage fatigue. Oh, another crisis. Yep, we just lost another advantage to our enemies. It's long past the point where the additional challenge is adding fun, but now it is getting to the point where additional challenge can't even make it more painful and is actually making the situation less interesting.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't know whether we have the military force to do this
- Location
- Austria
Given that some of those ae our fault in the first place, I am not so sure.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
I'm honestly feeling this pretty hard as well. I don't mean to besmirch AN's writing efforts here, but the combination of the pileup and slowed update schedule has been pretty stressful
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
Honestly should we go for a controlled break like Rome and Constantinople? Better doing it ourselves than fighting the inevitable and keep being forced to choose from increasingly bad options and have it happen anyway.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
You make the mistake of thinking that invading Trelli is a guarantee of no civil war. It isn't. If we fail to conquer Trelli, the Trader mission will fail and we will be plunged into civil war.
That doesn't really address his point, though.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Suppress Faction[Traders] negates the civil war, because the Traders are suppressible.
- Location
- Australia
It does. He fears the order of execution because it is based on chance and assumes that invading Trelli is the "safe" option because it does not rely on chance. In reality, they both rely on chance.
I know, which is why I think we should suppress the Traders.
Eh, let the tech bleed. And open the Artisan Games. Push everything forward as much as possible.
Really it's just that everything is bigger. We have twice the actions, and twice the problems. It just feels a lot worse because we have twice the problems at any one time.
@Academia Nut
It was previously mentioned that it would be possible to open the Artisan Games, but harder as time went on. Is it too late and, if not, how can we?
Also, can you please explain some of the mechanics behind the admin roll ordering? 5% and 50% chance of starvation is a huge difference and we still don't know if last turn was due to a crit fail or just an average roll. Does adding more +econ actions reduce the roll difficulty? Does having more small cost events reduce the difficulty?
We'll have to see, but I'm probably against it. Invading Trelli when we can hold it is a good idea, but right now we're bleeding everywhere and a single Suppress is enough to deal with that problem.
LuciDreamer
Maliciously Incompetent
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not if we suppress them.
EDIT: Did I seriously just get Ninja'd TWICE?
Last edited:
- Location
- Huezil
- Location
- Austria
To all those who think it is too much: AN warned us. He fycking told us to either "confront the problem" - go for Civil War; or "not confront it at all" - go in with them. He fucking tols us the right answers, not listening is on our heads.
Same goes for Urban Plagues, coinage problems and new religion to some degree I bet.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
I have a proposal: from now on we just ignore everyone else. We just ... let go.
Taking Trelli - forget it, just suppress the traders.
Protecting our IP - who cares, let them have it; open up the games.
Second Sons - suppress the moronic yeomen, and let them fuck off if they want.
Western Ymar - meh, they brought it on themselves.
We save some Econ and build the Dam, the Canal, Panama - wait where was going with this?
Or maybe we Influence Txolla before absorbing them - we have the stats except for Econ.
The sooner we get to focus on the TREES, the better.
Taking Trelli - forget it, just suppress the traders.
Protecting our IP - who cares, let them have it; open up the games.
Second Sons - suppress the moronic yeomen, and let them fuck off if they want.
Western Ymar - meh, they brought it on themselves.
We save some Econ and build the Dam, the Canal, Panama - wait where was going with this?
Or maybe we Influence Txolla before absorbing them - we have the stats except for Econ.
The sooner we get to focus on the TREES, the better.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Who trusts astro predictions nowadays anyway? Just because it turned out to be right the third time in hindsight does not necessary mean it is an admissible proof in political decisions .
Advanced "magic" and advanced "science" are both incomprehensible to the layman.
This is all a matter of interpretation. He didn't say outright: "Either go for civil war or go with them." Some of us believe, rightly, or wrongly, that civil war was a much worse problem, and introduce new precedents now the line to rebel, so it wouldn't be confronting our problems head on.
Coinage problems, we had been trying solutions. It works, sort of. In retrospect, it was predictable that distributing bread was going to cost us economically. Maybe looking for a mine will work, but we have no guarantee that we will actually find another silver mine. We may just as well find another Iron mine instead, which is great, except it's more iron and not more silver.
In the realm of religion, I believe we made all the right choices. We want to allow rap battles and debate, and not blind obedience. We got what we want. In fact, the new religion was never a problem for us.
Last edited:
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That -3 Stability hit could easily kill us.