Why go for a new settlement here? Doesn't seem very useful in the immediate term and longterm we have a limited amount of provinces, we'll want to ration them carefully for integration.

2 Stab now, though I'm admittedly not sure what caused the loss (well, the whole turn went badly, but IDK if something specific caused the stability loss or just "people questioning our governance")

Probably linked to the RA loss.
 
OK so some shit just went down. Wow politics are complicated.

[X] [React] Build Mills
[X] [React] Main Expand Econ
Not fond of land grabbing so this is technically approval voting I suppose.

[X] [PSN] More Farming (-1 Centralization, Sec Expand Econ)
Dunno how high centralization is right now, so being safe. Weird that we don't have a TREES! option for PSN this turn. Best guess is that we're reacting too quick for them to be grown before next update?

I'm waffling on the war choice, don't want to approval vote. I'll trust the thread.

Love of Wisdom (Maxed development) -> Philosopher Kings (Maxed Development)
Through intellect and careful testing of the world, the People have developed a love of knowledge and learning, and expect their leaders to follow suit.
Pros: Majorly improved use of study actions and innovation rolls, improved leader skill sets
Cons: Question social foundations, Over Leveled Penalty: -3 Mysticism, -1 Tech, & -1 Wealth per turn due to education stress
This is fucking scary. Didn't properly register that we were unlocking/bumping LoW earlier this vote. Traits evolutions aren't always good narratively guys!! Look at the text below, this is great statwise because of the skillsets for our kings, but narratively it's going to put a ton more stress on our Kings to be Hero level amazing and severely worsen our class divide problems because of the education and resource requirements to get up to the new King level.
The answer was that the People were now arguing a lot more, and arguing for ever greater education to be devoted to the leaders (read: patricians and priests) to ensure that kings and councils would not lead the People into such a disastrous war once more.

Somewhat irritatingly, the arguments and problems had lead the guilds not to developing grand new weapons as was hoped by some segments of society, but rather to figuring out new pottery. Okay, technically what happened was that reduced access to supplies had lead to experiments with different clays and thinner pots, and in combination with the somewhat not useful byproducts of recent alchemical research had produced new kinds of fine pottery that had a variety of colourful and sturdy glazes. Not the most practical of things at the time, although more than one alchemist praised the new glazes for the safe storage of reagents that fared poorly in glass for mysterious reasons.
Pots aint bad, yay pots! Future alchemists will thank the inventors here. Looks like we're one puzzle piece closer to figuring out chemistry.
 
It's what they are. I also mentioned libraries, if you'll look.
But gyms don't refund stats? Unless I'm also wrong about that. Even then I'd expect them to refund martial so building more temples would be more appropriate.
I didn't disagree with you on libraries.

We still have the Golden Age

Golden Age still going until we hit no max stats or Stability 0.


I stand corrected. I thought that it was just that AN had missed that.
Thanks for actually explaining where I went wrong notgreat.
 
Also, Philosopher Kings costs are excellent during a Golden Age. Especially as we roll for Culture and Wealth next. Culture has decent odds of including education.

Even if not, longterm this means that the upper crust gets more educated, making basic literacy and numeracy much less valuable and thus the patricians lose interest in making it harder on the lower classes to learn, because it just won't be enough to compete.
 
Dunno how high centralization is right now, so being safe. Weird that we don't have a TREES! option for PSN this turn. Best guess is that we're reacting too quick for them to be grown before next update?
7

This is fucking scary. Didn't properly register that we were unlocking/bumping LoW earlier this vote. Traits evolutions aren't always good narratively guys!! Look at the text below, this is great statwise because of the skillsets for our kings, but narratively it's going to put a ton more stress on our Kings to be Hero level amazing and severely worsen our class divide problems because of the education and resource requirements to get up to the new King level.
Class divide would be an issue but it's already impossible to become a king w/o being part of the patricians, essentially. So at worst all it does is make it more difficult for minor clans to rise to the Kingship.

But gyms don't refund stats? Unless I'm also wrong about that. Even then I'd expect them to refund martial so building more temples would be more appropriate.
google gymnasiums
No intent to sound rude, but we had the whole discussion about it as a forum which I'm somewhat inclined to think you participated in (?) and honestly do not feel like being responsible for dredging up everything and framing it in a way that makes sense within the context of our nation. So just google them, please.

Edit: I don't expect them to refund stats, I expect them to decrease the stat cost of the trait, which is due to a higher than standard educational overhead. Having a decent education be a normal part of the upper class should largely eliminate this burden. Temples would help some, but most of our patricians wouldn't get priest training.
 
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Philosopher Kings is nice, but not 3 stats/turn nice (assuming standard 2 Mysticism refund) and definitely not worth 1 stability/turn in addition to the 3 stats/turn.
Why do you say that? Also 1stab/turn? We can easily afford the costs and its benefits far outweigh any downsides. The increase to our kings' stats across the board will more than pay for the downsides and so will the bonus to innovation rolls.

I'm just not really seeing the downsides when we will have nearly all maxed stats again even with this damn war. I'm on a phone so typing the math out would suck, but with a build mills and main expand econ, it comes out to end totals of:

Econ: 11{9}
Diplo: 18
Wealth: 18
Culture: 18
Mysticism: 18
Tech: 13

This is all a result of our wealth income and even if we didn't have Rule of Gold(I wish we didn't) we would only be missing two points of tech. The fact is, we are making enough to support our golden age and Plilosohper Kings easily.
 
I mean, this is *still* better than Tax Crisis 1, methinks: we are still riding GA, we can defeat Trelli, we can, about 600 years later, restore alliance with Khemetri if we do not do more militaristic landgrabs against nominal allies...
We also got an expensive, but worthwhile trait and *porcelain*.

If we support rebels and free slaves, we can get staunch ally on the Trelli throne which will remember who put them there, thus opening straits.
Could be worse.
 
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Am not caught up on discussion, can anyone confirm if we got the success condition for the pottery quest?

Over Leveled Penalty
Fuck me

far too many slaves saw the People as just using their struggle as a convenient cover for a land grab.
Fuck me

the feuding nobility had decided that it wasn't that big of an argument they were having
FUCK me

Metal Workers soon following suit
FUCK ME

the Khemetri had not responded to the declaration of war by the People
FUUUUUUCK

In Service to Order too rigid to function
AAAAAAAUGH

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Doesn't matter.

So fucking worth it.
????? In what way? What actual bonuses does PK give relative to LoW that outweigh substantial stat evaporation per turn?
 
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