pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
And if I had ever been a part of the war and conquest faction I suppose you might have a point, but seeing as I've always advocated for turtling and development of the interior...
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
If we need more land, we could always go up north. Though I think making us bigger is probably a mistake.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
How can we Form Arabia without taking more land!?
The Requirements for Forming that title are VERY clear
- Location
- Austria
Fair enough. Plus, Redshore FC would indeed likely run Trade Policy and Redhills Industry one, so...still, @Glassware , Trade from Redshore will likely be seafaring, and I want to diploannex HK because they *need* to go but I do not want offensive war of conquest. So manual trade policy #2 is still what I want.
Honestly, aside from maybe settling the southern lowlands (which should help influence Txolla) I'm fine avoiding growing our borders for a bit. I'd much rather build up what we have and start innovating again. After that, we can see if we can Diplomance the Highlands or Trelli or something.
Or, knowing how things go, someone sucker punches us and we eat them.
Or, knowing how things go, someone sucker punches us and we eat them.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
When complaining about people not using a full quote, please do not manipulate the quote you quote. This is the full quote.
From there, we can clearly that the small section did talk about Catamarans.
If only I could make threadmarks... I would want to make a post everyone will notice about being careful keeping our Golden Age going and having at least 1 stat in the roof at all times. 
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
you could see that from my quote too, lol
"the shipbuilders were able to work out the issues they had been having with the multi-hulled designs that some were experimenting with."
I didn't mean whole as in full but rather whole as in everything relevant.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
@Academia Nut
If we kept our Golden Age on long enough would we get a legacy?
*trying to find incentives for people to actively keep it up instead of popping it*
If we kept our Golden Age on long enough would we get a legacy?
*trying to find incentives for people to actively keep it up instead of popping it*
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Our potential for what? Population growth? That isn't remotely true. If you want farming techniques we haven't adapted yet, we don't actually have crop rotation. We only rotate in trees every few decades, which certainly fixes the problem long term, but short term yields are lowered. We haven't really leveraged chinampas much because we don't have any large bodies of freshwater. We don't create splices and cultivars of our various crops and plants. I could probably find a dozen more if I was more inclined.
We also just discovered a whole new ecosystem and all the untapped resources and knowledge therein.
And that doesn't even go into the fact that the vassals we just took over have yet to even leverage our technologies. They will begin growing extremely fast the second they do.
Technology? Well, everybody has iron, but we can still be the first to steel and gunpowder. And then there is this pair of wonderful things called geometry and algebra that we just discovered. Those are nearly equal to iron in their sheer leverage potential. We also just entered a golden age which has a constant innovation roll and will pop out technologies like a rabbit. And, come to think of it, didn't we just finish a megaproject which gives us a per turn roll on sailing innovations? So, now we can easily get carvel design, pitch and tar, sail ribbing, take your bloody pick.
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Actually, a lot of that isn't nearly so replicable:
-Black Soil - This is the natural quality of floodplains and steppe soils, while also requiring a certain very high level of social investment into waste disposal rarely seen until the modern age. While every city eventually devised some form of garbage disposal, the level of central effort needed to gather and systematically burn your waste isn't naturally arising, and while manure fertilization was widespread, most other forms were erratic in implementation.
-Irrigation - This is wholly replicable, but ironically, due to many civilizations springing up around floodplains first, they never had the impetus or the geography to move beyond basic irrigation systems into canals and dams.
-Terrace farming - Generally developed by hill folk, as with the irrigation thing, civilizations living on floodplains never had to need to learn how to cut hills into farmland unless they somehow had no space to use(which was pretty rare on floodplains)
-Chinampas - It does take somewhat specific terrain utilize, and is significantly counterintuitive to other farming methods. It's basically for people stuck next to floodplains or lakes who somehow still lacked much arable land to figure out.
Our health techs were largely fallout from the Sacred Warding project's infrastructure and the Carrion Eaters that spawned from that. I don't expect them to be replicated on a significant scale for a long time either.
In other words, most of the agritech I don't expect to be caught up to any time soon. However, it makes the statement no less true. Look at the wars over our local floodplains for soil which matches all the work we put in through natural forces alone.
How long before their local polities settle out into a Top Dog that actually developed the sort of culture needed to hold their gains?
The Khemetri did with the Djeb, though we know from RL history that the struggle to dominate and control the Nile was extremely long and bloody.
Tech is just available artisanal workforce
- Location
- Germany
Here is the thing pop densit has its own very big problems with we can handle and most other nations not nearly as well.
I just want to point to the black death, for why a high pop. density can be really bad.
Also for our farming ?
Honestly if they are willing use the amount of work we use for our farming , that would already be a step up.
The thing is most nations around us us / have used to do their farming as that is pretty hard work.
For them it is just easier to take new land and new slaves from the nations around them then use the amout of work we do to improve the fields.
Also to europe haveing more pop then india / china ?
All the data i can find is that asia had alway much more pop then europe they had through are large part of history aroudn 60% of the world pop. and most of the people lived in India or china from what i can find.
Hell form what i can find in most of chinas history they had as much population then europe if not more.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
The TS also have a natural wonder that leverages their religious authority. They have more reason than the others to get out from under us.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
"and also likely have a stronger culture that will be harder to influence due to them being a Theocracy with a reasonably powerful religion while having a Natural Wonder."
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
That all true, and yet so is the fact that eventually outside people will adapt our practices. In general I just find it hard to believe that other countries won't also eventually start to begin high intensity agriculture, whatever that means in terms in technology.
"Most of history", sure. As I've said, I was talking about ~1600-2000, or maybe say ~1600-1900, when Europe had a massive lead not only tech-wise or economy-wise but also population-wise. And the point is, the other parts of the world eventually caught up again.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hrmmm...*tugs beard*
*does some intense thinking*
Huh.
As of <Decision point> our policy spread looked like this.
1 base + 3(cities) + 1 Law Infra + 1(census) with an assignment like this:
3x Infra(+1 the unlisted Law), 1x Forest, 1 Defense. With Stallionpen and Redhill now existing we have two unassigned.
If we assume that Redhill and Redshore both become FC's then they will both take two other policies. Redshore is likely to take Trade, which narratively is mostly sea based but they do have to sell to people near us so I figure the HK will be included some fashion. Likely quite limited but this is a factor I think we should keep in mind. It also may not work this way, we should ask AN when/if it happens.
And I'd see Redhill going for Industry for that sweet sweet Tech drip you, and also I, like. Narratively probably gives a subtle flavor to our innovations towards metal *shrug* that's speculation though.
So all in all we have two to play with. One in general trade to try and keep the Diplo-wagon going and one in vassal support to slow the potential break away and to set the bed for our influence use. Vassal support is quite useful with the sheer number we have as well and actually gives another slot. In particular we also have to think about the NTP now on top of our two new gains and the NTP could use the trickle feed from Vassal Support till it is no longer in yellow dependency.
If only one is converted then we would be sorta restricted in our choices.
It'd be Redhill, so we'd have only a Industry thing going if my speculation is right. But we'd still have two unassigned and one could be trade and another could be vassal. So less focus on trade, but we would actually be actively spending a policy on it. I could see the thread actually going for trade and vassal more here, instead of the one where we get both FC's.
I guess this is all simply stuff to think about, I'm certainly not trying to sell you on anything. Just shaking out the probable picture we'd be seeing as far as I can guess.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Do they, though?
Step back and consider for a moment: they're now part of the most populous empire in the region, with buckets of prestige and a reputation for calling down the stars. If they want converts, there are over 3 million Ymaryn, plus I'm sure they can find ways to leverage the star caller reputation for their own missionary efforts to others. And the king is elected.
Way more potential for them to work from the inside.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Yes, but unless our other nearby groups can cause and sustain a population growth that exceeds our own, they will need catch up. They might adapt high intensity farming, but it is nearly impossible to adapt the cultural mores that made our brand of it possible or so effective. Even then, they will likely never match our population. Our already higher population will simply continue to accelerate barring natural disaster or other misfortune.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
the reverse is also true; all of these things give us power over them & the elected king is restrained by advisors
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Not really. Actually the priests asked people to slow down.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Damn it, I blame the HIGH RA, people actually listened to stop fornicating because they asked
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Their religious base literally just got hit by a giant ball of "fuck you" from space. Then they were saved from devastation by a group of people who are apparently the ones favored by the gods and have historically been the ones to flee to when times are bad. These. people then likely give out things like black soil, iron, and mills, and say here, go feed yourself. This was how the Romans supplanted local faiths with their own. This is how Christianity spread in Africa during the colonial era.
Being conquered or otherwise devastated doesn't look good for the victims religion. At all.
The religious leaders of the TS are shitting themselves.
All of these is basically the Advantage of Backwardness.
For a long time, we could be considered the backwater of the Fertile Crescent, with the dominant power in the region being Thunder Horse/Xohyr. But this is precisely our advantage because we are forced to develop technology that remove the disadvantages of being in hilly terrains with crappy soil.
Similarly, other civilizations will eventually rise to prominence once they figure out how to farm their particular biome.
However, the Ymaryn is building a trading outpost that will let us take on new challenges to develop new agricultural technologies.