- Location
- Staring into the void
Having sacred cows changes the way you perceive animals in general.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Australia
Actually actively doing what?
Actually, China used to be ahead of Europe, and Europe was more like a backwater. Then Europe become master of the world.This also doesn't last. Eventually, the US become dominant. Let not forget that the American colonies used to be a backward place too. China's pollution problem is our problem, and American refusal to help with climate change is not helpful.
Now it doesn't matter who's backward or not, because we're all interconnected. A problem in a country affects everyone across the globe.
What does this say about the Ymaryn? We can't get too complacent and we have to keep challenging ourselves in new environments. Otherwise, some civilizations in some backwater of world history will eventually overtake us.
I want to acquire a swamp, a desert, and an actual topical rainforest. I supposed we could acquire the taiga too. But of course, the bigger our empire, the harder it is to administrate.
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Stagnation does not accurately describe the China model during it's dynasty runs. The land and population management have undergo several revisions and changes from the Qin dynasty to Qing dynasty. Improvements to the land control can be summaries in these maps.
Back then the focus was on making sure the population is producing enough food and content enough to distribute those food to other profession and less developed areas. The intellectuals were entrenched in ensuring power is not diluted too much(for the betterment of all of course), so the merchants are cast down from the social ladder while the soldiers (including most nobles) are heavily curtailed. Note: Chinese nobles are swept away with every dynasty change, so they are usually not counted as an independent player.
The dynasty transitions are typically due to over-population and government's reduced ability to deal with weather events. Both of these effects reinforce the other and usually leads to government collapse if unchecked.
Many innovations were made, but are not fully realized due to power play between governments, factions, and families. Leading to hostile environment for practical inventions.
Fun observation: Amount of population lose scales with the live span of a dynasty. The more people died during the founding period the longer the dynasty will live.
Which doesn't change a thing?
Take Redshore, what do they profit from?
-Governor's Palace - Whoever is in charge will live here and direct the city from here. There is no faction that would not want it. High priority
-Baths - Major consumer of charcoal, spices and soap. More business for them that they can charge the operators of. Medium priority.
-Temples - Major consumer of incense and spices. Coupled to the Games, spawns another market where they can sell and tax the sale of religious goods to Games contestants. Medium priority.
-Colossal Walls - Improves taxation efficacy by cutting off smuggling, but it does take a lot of time to benefit, and we hadn't really seen longsighted thinking in that lot. Low priority.
-Library - Helps the guilds by improving productivity via reference materials, but low direct benefit. Low priority
It doesn't matter who winds up in charge, they will want at least 2 Infrastructure projects for themselves. Every Free City will at least build a Governor's Palace immediately if they can.
Even after Love of Wisdom, this remains the issue. Religion is the guardian of tradition, and if we want to avoid calcifying as a culture, change is invariably necessary.
Extremely High RA makes said change more difficult, and also risks the King conceding authority to the priests too much. Remember again our priests managed to stay above the political snake's nest by not playing the political games.
High RA means like it or not, they get dragged in because they are the eminent social authority and so the various factions in our society will be incentivized to find out: What is their price?
e: better anser ninja
Basically, it's a reflexive cultural reaction to the widespread war of their foundational eras. So much that the leading philosophies were arguing whether obeying your hierarchial superior was more important or whether obeying the abstract ideal of the law was more important.
Which leads to stagnation via passive forces.
Dissent is dangerous. Change is dangerous.
Stay the course of tradition.
Really you'd see much the same out of any culture which ultimately unified the warring lowlands arising from within.
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- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
@Skjadir
Hm okay, it seems like I'll need to concede the argument... at least in the universality that I used...
I'm sorry, but this is even sillier than the comparison to Assyria. Of course, when talking about Prussia it makes a great difference if we talk about 18th century or 19th century Prussia - Prussia before the French Revolution and Prussia after Napoleon. There was a great difference between the two. Still, some generalizations can be made.
So - the way we fight. Completely different.
Prussia's thing was always its very large army for its small size. 18th-century Prussia was the least of the five great powers, and the only way it could be a great power at all with its small territorial, population and economical base was to maximize its militarization. It was joked that there were other states with an army... but that Prussia was an army with a state.
Now granted, we have had many problems with red martial, but that has always just been a thing that... happened. It was always just part of our general stat overflow. We never build our structure around making raising armies as efficient as possible. We aren't the least of the great powers which needs to compensate; we are the King of the Hill and the military, quite frankly, never had our particular focus.
And really, it isn't Prussia without a focus on the military. That's pretty much the most defining thing about Prussia.
As for the way we empire... what?
Prussia was always aggressive. Frederick II conquered Silesia on the most flimsiest of exuses, and during that also attacked Saxony with no reason or declaration of war at all, just because it would be a nice addition to the realm. And in the German War of 1866 (Austro-Prussian War), it was Prussia which attacked Austria and the German Confederation (though contrary to popular belief, due to the myths Bismarck spread for self-aggrandization, it was France which sought war in 1870). This is pretty much the opposite of us - we never actively went out to seize territory; we either gained territory in self-defence (our northern subordinates) or through absorbion (Hatvalley and hence Gutvalley, and now Thunder Speakers and Thunder Horse)
Hm okay, it seems like I'll need to concede the argument... at least in the universality that I used...
I'm sorry, but this is even sillier than the comparison to Assyria. Of course, when talking about Prussia it makes a great difference if we talk about 18th century or 19th century Prussia - Prussia before the French Revolution and Prussia after Napoleon. There was a great difference between the two. Still, some generalizations can be made.
So - the way we fight. Completely different.
Prussia's thing was always its very large army for its small size. 18th-century Prussia was the least of the five great powers, and the only way it could be a great power at all with its small territorial, population and economical base was to maximize its militarization. It was joked that there were other states with an army... but that Prussia was an army with a state.
Now granted, we have had many problems with red martial, but that has always just been a thing that... happened. It was always just part of our general stat overflow. We never build our structure around making raising armies as efficient as possible. We aren't the least of the great powers which needs to compensate; we are the King of the Hill and the military, quite frankly, never had our particular focus.
And really, it isn't Prussia without a focus on the military. That's pretty much the most defining thing about Prussia.
As for the way we empire... what?
Prussia was always aggressive. Frederick II conquered Silesia on the most flimsiest of exuses, and during that also attacked Saxony with no reason or declaration of war at all, just because it would be a nice addition to the realm. And in the German War of 1866 (Austro-Prussian War), it was Prussia which attacked Austria and the German Confederation (though contrary to popular belief, due to the myths Bismarck spread for self-aggrandization, it was France which sought war in 1870). This is pretty much the opposite of us - we never actively went out to seize territory; we either gained territory in self-defence (our northern subordinates) or through absorbion (Hatvalley and hence Gutvalley, and now Thunder Speakers and Thunder Horse)
In short, this isn't how any of this happened at all.
- Location
- Philippines
Guys if you people are going to choose a genius why not a diplo one who may become an intrigue genius.
But people can be short-sighted and our Trader-faction only just realized to go "You know, maybe that slavery-business really is too dangerous" so they aren't exactly the most... intelligent group around.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What veekie was getting at was that on a short sighted scale, infrastructure is still their local optimum even beyond a trade policy(though I don't completely agree that they will come to this conclusion).
For example a palace gives traders more power to administrate themselves and push at central authority.
Finite Magician
Working within limits
- Location
- World's End
The wardens have already decreased my rations in attempt to discourage the 'unneeded acts of flair' in my works.
My cellmate, @BungieONI starves everyday as he pushes what little he has to me to maintain my strength. I cannot fail. I cannot.
Ignore the above messages, citizen. The troublemakers have been punished. Simply sit back and enjoy: Highschool Woes (4)
Historia of (Mid-Teens) Ymaryn: Highschool Woes (4)
Ymaryn sighed as she retrieved the envelopes from the mailbox and boxes set beside it. Ever since that monthly issue of sports magazine that came with the packs of isotonic drink became a regular thing, she had become responsible for bringing in the mail. The signature on the subscription had even blatantly been an imprint of a crow's feather.
How did a crow manage to get a paid subscription of a sports magazine to her? No, really, how?!
Her family had enjoyed those things very much, despite her outcries, and had told Ymaryn to simply let things be. As she let her suspension of disbelief regarding the strange turns in her life settle as much as it could, the other shoe dropped.
A major food poisoning incident had struck at school, having her suspect one specific corvid intensely for leaving her with the means of helping while solidifying her position of power. She'd have to mail a copy of her rules to the address the magazine subscription had been ordered from, because screw that plan.
Ringing up her father to inform him of this emergency and for him to pick up the many boxes containing the drinks from their storeroom, she meanwhile ran herself ragged tending to one student after another. Her father responded in record time as well and they began distributing the re-hydrating liquids within the hour.
Approaching a familiar trio who ended up in the same corner of the infirmary with bottles in her hands, she hesitated for just a moment before shaking the treacherous thoughts away.
"This should help your body recover. Drink."
Wary eyes wandered between the bottles in their hands and Ymaryn before they uncapped them and drank.
Three days passed, the halls emptier with its usual occupants still suffering from lingering dehydration, before those who recovered more quickly returned. Thus it was on the fourth morning that Ymaryn found Thunder Speaker and Dead Priest waiting for her at her desk.
"What is the meaning of this?", she had questioned, not assuming but suspecting.
"Repayment.", was Thunder Speaker's concise reply, Dead Priest silently motioning for him to get on with something.
A thick book still in its plastic wrappings, a copy of what Ymaryn always saw Dead Priest reading, was placed gently onto the table. Set beside them were interesting collectibles that she knew to be hard to get her hands on.
The price tag still on the book boggled her mind.
"This is too much. I cannot-", Ymaryn protested only to be halted by an open palm held up to her.
Looking for support of any kind, she turned to Thunder Speaker, only to find him blankly nodding in agreement to his strangely silent partner.
"I know of your rules. Your confusion should be because you do not know mine.", Dead Priest reluctantly concluded of her, the thick accent presumably why he avoided speaking in the first place."I repay all favors and insults given."
Finding a viable course of action, Ymaryn jumped on it, only to be left with an agape mouth when he elaborated further.
"Those of which given freely, are twice repaid."
So, her initial impression of the Dead Priest was off too. Either that, or he had mellowed out since then. She had changed a lot since her enrollment too, so that theory wasn't too far-fetched at least. Maybe, just maybe...
She drew in a deep breath to steady herself before speaking.
"I accept your gifts of repayment and am honored by them."
Holding her hand over her heart before offering it to them. It was but a simple gesture. The meaning carried behind it, however, was anything but. Dead Priest's eyes met her own as he took her proffered hand into his.
---DP---
Dead Priest was used to being talked about behind his back. He had done many horrible things in the name of the greater good, after all. Bad things happened, forcing his hand again and again till it had become common practice for him and his. So were the deeds he had done been as heinous as they were necessary. As you sow, so shall you reap and he took his reputation in stride.
Thus it was surprise that he felt first and foremost when one was willing to ignore it, to offer friendship of all things when their tenets of beliefs were so different. He knew how it would end, yet felt compelled to give it a try, telling himself it was fine to indulge in such fleeting things without committing. It did not make what he felt when she finally gave up on him any less painful.
///DP///
Ymaryn found that there were kernels of truth in all lies. As it was with spoilt grain, ridding the husk leaves you with nothing for the effort.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Because admin can cover intrigue problems to a good extent and also helps address the administration problems of having too many cities.
... And that isn't almost synanomous with my point, how?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It is synonymous as far as I can tell. Honestly I am not completely sure what you are disagreeing with him about.
Are you saying that because the traders are rather un-intelligent in your opinion that they will not take an Infrastructure passive like veekie is saying? Or are you only concerned about a hypothetical political structure and not even talking about what policy they will take?
Can you please clarify?
The difference is that Veekie believes that even if the Traders take charge there they will pick Infastructure, while I believe that if Traders take charge there they will immediately focus on Trade-passive instead because of shortsightedness.
- Location
- Germany
So guys have you already talks about to do the up coming turn ?
I figured we could go with something like this
[Main]Influence Subordinate - TH, TS or TX
*M: -3 Diplo, Transfer 3 Econ, Wealth, Culture, Tech, and Mysticism; significantly influences subordinate culture, +1 Loyalty
[Sec]Integrate Colony - Part of the colony of Western Wall, or part of Txolla
*S: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating Colony
[Sec]New Trails
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
[Guild]Build Glassworks
*M: -2 Econ, -2 Tech, 1 Sustainable Forest used, +2 Wealth, +4 Culture, increased chance of new innovations
We know from AN that we need to influence our subordinates in order to ensure that they don't break away from us in the future
Best time for that would be the Golden Age where the Trauma is still fresh
We should also try to integrate the TX so that we may share a Border with our new vassals, which is why I'm listing TX on the influence List as well cause I'm not sure if they are already culturally close enough for us to integrate them without getting into cultural conflicts
Heck they may still have private property
As such I would be far more comfortable if we could influence them one more time before integrating them
But fact is we really should integrate them soon before they start getting any ideas
It also helps that integrating part of the WW or the TX would fix our EE problem and allow us to use the Econ overflow to pay for the Influence action
I figured we could go with something like this
[Main]Influence Subordinate - TH, TS or TX
*M: -3 Diplo, Transfer 3 Econ, Wealth, Culture, Tech, and Mysticism; significantly influences subordinate culture, +1 Loyalty
[Sec]Integrate Colony - Part of the colony of Western Wall, or part of Txolla
*S: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating Colony
[Sec]New Trails
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
[Guild]Build Glassworks
*M: -2 Econ, -2 Tech, 1 Sustainable Forest used, +2 Wealth, +4 Culture, increased chance of new innovations
We know from AN that we need to influence our subordinates in order to ensure that they don't break away from us in the future
Best time for that would be the Golden Age where the Trauma is still fresh
We should also try to integrate the TX so that we may share a Border with our new vassals, which is why I'm listing TX on the influence List as well cause I'm not sure if they are already culturally close enough for us to integrate them without getting into cultural conflicts
Heck they may still have private property
As such I would be far more comfortable if we could influence them one more time before integrating them
But fact is we really should integrate them soon before they start getting any ideas
It also helps that integrating part of the WW or the TX would fix our EE problem and allow us to use the Econ overflow to pay for the Influence action
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah. I see.
What I was getting at was that my view on this is that Infrastructure is the actual short term (and long term) optimum for them(veekie has it right there I think).
But, that there is a chance in my opinion that the Traders mistakenly pick Trade passive because they think it's their local optimum.
So we both end up at the same place of them picking Trade, but with some details being different on the back end.
Thank you for clarifying, sorry for the confusion.
No objection in principle.
As long as one stat remains maxed out, it works fine for me.
Worst case, we take one Mercenary Company and pay it in Econ. That way they get added into our Martial stat and it remains at Gold. While most aren't comfortable with a Martial Golden Age, thats just a short time before the rest maxes out again. And we can just try and grab material advances. Or teach them how to finally build roads.
I'm also looking forward to what effects our new math will have on our actions. Norias revolutionized the Aqueducts, but this one is theoretically much more far reaching.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
I just realised that our population will probably surpass that of modern Denmark's soon.
*that feel when an early iron age nation surpasses your own*
In one very specific area, mind you, and it's not that important really it's not how large your population is but how well you use it and stop laughing at us Sweden we aren't that tiny!
*that feel when an early iron age nation surpasses your own*
In one very specific area, mind you, and it's not that important really it's not how large your population is but how well you use it and stop laughing at us Sweden we aren't that tiny!
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm.
Much like DakkaMania, I have no objection in principle. I'm not remembering how the kick will work with PttS, so we might not be doing that. In that case our main may still be taken up by the mega so the actions would have to be shuffled around a bit. But if PttS does get kicked, or simply completes then we have the raw actions to do this.
And as far as I can tell our basic income will keep Wealth maxed and overflowing into Diplo, so there is the at least one maxed stat to keep GA going covered. And Glassworks just helps with that.
Poor Omega. Have hugs. *hugs*
Your nation is still cool.
Hm, only thing that comes to my mind as cross applicable is the techniques involving mortar and stone construction. Possibly maintenance practices?
Not a lot springs to mind.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
For brick roads you also have to ensure that there arent any cracks which can be eroded easily.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Time to reclaim Scania to fix that population problem?
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
Now I want to double team someone with Khemtri using the power of Jolly Cooperations. Two Great Powers working together and able to support each other would near unstoppable.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
SOLAAAAAAIIIIIIIIRE!Now I want to double team someone with Khemtri using the power of Jolly Cooperations. Two Great Powers working together and able to support each other would near unstoppable.
Hahahaa.
I want to as well now that you mention it.
It's just, what would even require such a thing? Some giant Horde of Nasty from where the Assyrian empire came from in real life?
Anything else would be squished.
The Trelli. Not because we need to but because we would have fewer losses if we carve up their lands between us.