He's become a priest of some renown. Much of her condition remains mysterious, although there is some interest in going over the various formations and tactics she deployed. Most agree that without whatever spiritual insight/sheer tactical brilliance she had repeating them would be impossible, but there might be some simpler versions of use.
Hmm, interesting.
Our warriors will need to be more literate soon I think

Both. It makes less likely to give a good result and more likely to give a crappy quest with a nasty failure condition.
So failing quests make those factions more salty and spiteful with the next unless you at least address their issues in another way.

Ah politics.
How do you think you got the Xohyr/Thunder Horse Early Empire legacy?
Hmm, did the Khemetri get their own?
They count as periphery states on a mechanical level, its an in-universe thing where they are treated sort of like their own province.
Oh handy, thats pretty handy for adding more guild actions, but it sounds like they also count towards provincial admin load?
Confirmed/thanks, but next time include the whole quote. Catamaran was mentioned nowhere in that small section.

Note the italic section, too. Longships are still better.
Could hop back up easily enough with the quote. Selecting text on phone sucks.

And the claim made was that Catamarans could carry decent cargo, not that they could carry more that a ship designed for cargo.
 
Wow, three new passives if I counted right.

My wish-list: 1 trade policy, 1 vassal loyalty policy and either 1 more defense policy or the one which gives free city-upkeep. Any chance that will happen?

City upkeep and double trade for me- despite high Diplo rating we rarely send Trade Missions and are not really liked by neighbours, and narratively Trade Policy is specifically about going out and making contacts.
 
61% are willing to pay 3 culture to get a specific choice
39% are not
Sure, but just because someone thinks a Culture Genius would be best and is willing to pay for it doesn't mean they would prefer an Admin/Diplo Genius to a random one. In fact they'd probably prefer the random one because that way it has a chance of being a Culture Genius.

edit: Blackbird'd
 
Wow, three new passives if I counted right.

My wish-list: 1 trade policy, 1 vassal loyalty policy and either 1 more defense policy or the one which gives free city-upkeep. Any chance that will happen?
Should be possible to grab two.

The policy we got from Redshore has already been assigned by Hert-man to infra.

But now we have Redhill and Stallionpen giving two unassigned policies.

Gotta hope that the at least singular FC we are getting this turn takes one of the others.

I am really supporting vassal policy now.
 
*Whistles slowly*
What estimates I've been able to find for 2000 BC suggest somewhere in the high 20-low 30 million for global population. Somewhere between a 1/5th and 1/6th of the world now lives within our borders, in a very real way this may be the most powerful globally that we'll ever be.

I don´t really think so, we have an massiv pop. for the time.

That means we will also have alot more passiv pop. growth then the other nations combine that with how we take in refugees and can take hits by bad weather better then almost any other nation this means our growth will be likely bigger and more constant then theirs (also us haveing proto health care).

This means that as long as we can keep our nation from breaking we are going to get stronger faster then other nations (we have started to snowball and if nothing stop us over the next ~2000 years we are likely to eat everthing around us in that timeframe).
 
City upkeep and double trade for me- despite high Diplo rating we rarely send Trade Missions and are not really liked by neighbours, and narratively Trade Policy is specifically about going out and making contacts.

I suspect that a Redshore Free City would select Trade as its passive, given that it is our commercial hub. Perhaps that way would work?
 
On popping Golden Ages via Influence, we have enough Wealth and Mysticism income that we could use Admin Order of Execution to avoid popping

Too slow for us. We need to take advantage of the meteor culture shock to convert them while traumatized
To add to that, I think we should prioritize influencing the Thunder Speakers over the Thunder Horse.
The Thunder Speakers were less affected by the blast, and also likely have a stronger culture that will be harder to influence due to them being a Theocracy with a reasonably powerful religion while having a Natural Wonder.

The Thunder Horse were far more devastated, and are still focused on repairing themselves. It should take much longer before they decide they want to try their luck at breaking away.

Ideally, we should be influencing both of them at the same time next turn, but in case the Thread doesn't go for it I would advocate for influencing the Thunder Speakers over the Thunder Horse.
 
*looks at map, jaw drops* You know... over the course of this game I had somehow fallen under the impression that the Ymaryn civilization was fucking huge. A few things fueled this assumption. First of all we were always growing as a population, mostly through immigration, yes, but it was a good, steady growth. Second, we've annexed a truly astounding number of other civilizations over the centuries, at least, it certainly felt like suitably a large number. Third, whenever we've won a major war we've expanded, sometimes explosively, and that made our civilization feel properly big. And fourth, but certainly not least, our method of warfare has always been based around the assumption that we outnumber the enemy, sometimes massively, and we almost always seem to. The sheer amount of manpower we seem to be able to throw at our problems has always given off the impression of a massive, sprawling civilization, with all that that image entails.

I figured that we were probably the biggest civilization on our local landmass *turns and looks back at the map* and now I see we're practically the smallest. Pardon my French, but how in the blue blazes did that happen?!
Square footage doesn't get a vote, basically. Population matters most of all. Expanses of land matter only in as much as you can extract resources from it, and defend it.
Well...

Possibilities I can immediately think of:

Intrigue network in HK has a Ymaryn Sympathizer.
HK intrigue network and Ymaryn hidden network in intrigue combat.
Intrigue network in HK at that time was against the HK King's policy of stealing Ymaryn iron.


So, options. Which means if we do have a internal Ymaryn network, it's a skilled one.
Alternatively, a sufficiently inventive or sneaky third party hostile to both the Ymaryn and the Highlands is seeking to instigate conflict between them.

Yes and no. Wonders and legacies are unique to the civilizations we have contact with or know of. So of, say the not!Inca do something it has absolutely zero effect on us until we make contact with them. However, if the Khemetri or Highlanders gain a legacy or build a wonder (Like the Pyramids) then we can't do it.

@Academia Nut if we absorb or kill a civ are their legacies or wonders available again after a certain amount of time?
Hey, have some subtlety!

Try "If a civilization just so happens to accidentally trip and fall on a knife three dozen times, while we were minding our own business nearby, would their legacies be available to any completely innocent passers-by?"

They're*

That is so rediculous it verges on nonsense. Let's look at the American Mafia of the the twenties and thirties. They did a lot of community good such as food kitchens, youth programs, and community outreach. They also murdered people in their beds, ran protection rackets on businesses, and participated in human trafficking.

Legalizing crime because it is easier is the height of stupidity.
To be fair, though, it is a very old solution. More than a few brigands were recruited into nobility. Changing careers from protection racket shakedowns and highway robbery into officially recognized tax collection and highway toll collecting was not that big a stretch, for some enterprising rogues. A few generations later, nobody can tell their descendants apart from any other noble family.

Mostly, it is the realm of desperation, as no better option is available.


As for this vote, personally I'd rather take smaller golden age bonuses every turn for many turns in a row, instead of spending big and ending it right away. But a genius would probably be very useful, for several turns, so its not terrible.

I'd really prefer not to spend the entire Culture stockpile on it, and so the specified focus upcharge isn't worth it, IMO

For the free city issue, I'd rather ease into it. Do a small test case first, see what goes wrong and what we can do to prevent that.

While we do need roads, and I wouldn't be upset if that does win, I think applying diplomacy to the Trelli is a more immediate issue. I have zero desire to spend this Golden Age in a war, or near war conflict.

[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
[X] [GA] Random culture tech upgrade (-8 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [FC] Just one FC
[x] [Diplo] Talk with the Trelli (Main Trade Mission - Trelli)
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)
 
I don´t really think so, we have an massiv pop. for the time.

That means we will also have alot more passiv pop. growth then the other nations combine that with how we take in refugees and can take hits by bad weather better then almost any other nation this means our growth will be likely bigger and more constant then theirs (also us haveing proto health care).

This means that as long as we can keep our nation from breaking we are going to get stronger faster then other nations (we have started to snowball and if nothing stop us over the next ~2000 years we are likely to eat everthing around us in that timeframe).
It... doesn't quite work that way.

Look at RL: One reason for the European dominance ~1600-2000 was that Europe had a disproportionally high population compared to the rest of the world. Africa and Asia saw huge population booms in the 19th and 20th centuries; before that the colonial empires rule vast expanses of territories but not actually that many people in them. This, of course, has changed these days, and Europe's percentage of the world population has continously shrunk despite remaining (together with N.America) the richest part of the world.

Think about it: Right now we can allow for frankly insane population density levels due to black soil, healthcare and a vast administration service distributing food. But we're pretty much capped out on that development. So once other realms get those goodies as well, they can very well catch up to us. Just like IRL, areas in which hardly a human lives now will eventually reach similar population densities to us. So I think it's justified to say that we'll probably never again rule such a large percentage of the world population, except maybe for a little while if we maybe do absorb the HK.
 
I suspect that a Redshore Free City would select Trade as its passive, given that it is our commercial hub. Perhaps that way would work?
I bet Infrastructure. They also want Baths, and Temples(think of the profit in the pilgrimage knickknack trade) to seduce game contestants, as well as Governor Palace and Library to manage self rule and Colossal Walls to improve their city-stability by raising the EE margin.
 
So I think it's justified to say that we'll probably never again rule such a large percentage of the world population, except maybe for a little while if we maybe do absorb the HK.
Not really? China and India have absolutely massive populations, due to cultural, societal and economic reasons, just being wealthy doesn't mean our pop will eventually become like a modern First world country (Tho its extremely likely)
 
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)
 
Not really? China and India have absolutely massive populations, due to cultural, societal and economic reasons, just being wealthy doesn't mean our pop will eventually become like a modern First world country (Tho its extremely likely)
The point is that our potential is basically maxed out. Meanwhile, everybody else still has a massive potential - just imagine they get the same farming and foresting techniques we have, for example. Just like IRL, what are barely settled wildlands can reach similar population densities to us. (In fact, everything else would be a kind of... waste)
 
It... doesn't quite work that way.

Look at RL: One reason for the European dominance ~1600-2000 was that Europe had a disproportionally high population compared to the rest of the world. Africa and Asia saw huge population booms in the 19th and 20th centuries; before that the colonial empires rule vast expanses of territories but not actually that many people in them. This, of course, has changed these days, and Europe's percentage of the world population has continously shrunk despite remaining (together with N.America) the richest part of the world.

Think about it: Right now we can allow for frankly insane population density levels due to black soil, healthcare and a vast administration service distributing food. But we're pretty much capped out on that development. So once other realms get those goodies as well, they can very well catch up to us. Just like IRL, areas in which hardly a human lives now will eventually reach similar population densities to us. So I think it's justified to say that we'll probably never again rule such a large percentage of the world population, except maybe for a little while if we maybe do absorb the HK.
Alternatively, we could take over invite the world to our fire by smiting the unbelievers from the heavens fire and blood willing annexation peace and friendship.
 
Not really? China and India have absolutely massive populations, due to cultural, societal and economic reasons, just being wealthy doesn't mean our pop will eventually become like a modern First world country (Tho its extremely likely)

They were also at one time or another the preeminent civilization on the planet.

The point is that our potential is basically maxed out. Meanwhile, everybody else still has a massive potential - just imagine they get the same farming and foresting techniques we have, for example. Just like IRL, what are barely settled wildlands can reach similar population densities to us. (In fact, everything else would be a kind of... waste)

That would required drastic change to their social and economic structure. in other words, they would become more like us.
 
The point is that our potential is basically maxed out. Meanwhile, everybody else still has a massive potential - just imagine they get the same farming and foresting techniques we have, for example. Just like IRL, what are barely settled wildlands can reach similar population densities to us. (In fact, everything else would be a kind of... waste)
They have the potential, but it probably won't happen for other nations for quite some time.

The real reason we can have such a high population density is because we are really good at disease prevention, basically eliminating the biggest killer of people confined in small places (aka True Cities)

We currently have 4 True Cities while our neighbors have 1 at most partially because we have the population density to support them, but mostly because we make it tolerable to live in such confined spaces.

I doubt that anyone besides maybe the Khemetri will be able to get Health Techs at a similar level to ours for at least a few centuries, while we will still be growing.
 
Oh true enough - we will probably keep the spot of "rules a fifth or sixth of the world population" for quite some time. But I still think this is the apex.
 
@Academia Nut I was hoping we could do multiple GA actions, we're at Red Tech (what does that do?)
Adhoc vote count started by NewAgeOfPower on Aug 8, 2017 at 2:19 AM, finished with 99215 posts and 112 votes.
 
So continuous secondaries with the occasional Main influence subordinate on the TS and TH are needed for the next 10 turns to keep them from rebelling. We may need to increase our infrasturce policy instead so it could build numerous GP fast enough for us to absorb these two vassals.
 
City upkeep and double trade for me- despite high Diplo rating we rarely send Trade Missions and are not really liked by neighbours, and narratively Trade Policy is specifically about going out and making contacts.
We have too many vassals to just leave it to active actions.

Besides, a passive like that being active for a long time, + our planned influence subordinate-spree? Sounds like a way to upgrade Lords Loyalty.
 
The point is that our potential is basically maxed out. Meanwhile, everybody else still has a massive potential - just imagine they get the same farming and foresting techniques we have, for example. Just like IRL, what are barely settled wildlands can reach similar population densities to us. (In fact, everything else would be a kind of... waste)
As others said, they'd have to become like us.

Assumes we won't continue growing in horizontal size and pop size w/ it.
Assumes we've capped out on health care which, even at our tech level, isn't very true.
Ignores our tendency to devote a lot of actions to infrastructure & dev that others aren't as willing to commit to.
Ignores the fact that we suck up pop. from other places around us whenever they're troubled.
 
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