But what if we frame it as asking ancestors for advice and summoning spirit dragons instead, will it then be accepted?
no

no one wants to feel their vestigial ties to this physical earth be ground into dust and then set on fire

It a monolithic project that dwarfs the suez canal by far. The labour and costs required could very well break us. And the ecological damage would be bloody staggering(hell the fish would curse us tell kingdom come) .
all the more reason to do it
why would the ecological damage be bad? we're just connecting freshwater ecologies. the river is unlikely to be redirected because so much of it is water flowing from outlets further downstream
 
On a different note :

@Academia Nut, would a genius cultural king open up Somthing like a doubled golden age? Give us new diplomacy options? And any hint on internal effects of such a king?

Also what exactly is cultural stat?
Is it skill the arts? An eye for it? Is it oratory? philosophy? a mastery of ceremony and social interactions? Is it a desire for cultural supremacy?
Is it basically the Ymaryn version of the Sun King? A mix of Diplo myst and admin?
 
Alright lemme ask this, does the thread honestly believe, that with the way the Ymaryn are set up, that free cities are gonna be practically independent polities?
Cus thats what I feel some argue.

This is bloody redder than the USSR Ymaryn we're talking about, free cities will likely be a degree of autonomy with several layers of king men put into it because by God do we have a monstrosity of a buecracy and central state.
I agree with you on this, but I think the issue is that over the centuries, which go by quickly, we could see them turn into something we don't like.

They also consume a subordinate/peripheral slot which we seem to be in short supply of these days after taking on two more vassals.
 
Honestly, I have very little interest in doing the southern Canal anytime soon. Dam, Lowlands Canal, Artisan Competitions and Redhills Mega all seem far more attractive.
 
no

no one wants to feel their vestigial ties to this physical earth be ground into dust and then set on fire


all the more reason to do it
why would the ecological damage be bad? we're just connecting freshwater ecologies. the river is unlikely to be redirected because so much of it is water flowing from outlets further downstream

We're connecting the Mediterranean to the northern anatolia-caucasus river networks , the fauna will bloody well get affected.
 
I agree with you on this, but I think the issue is that over the centuries, which go by quickly, we could see them turn into something we don't like.

They also consume a subordinate/peripheral slot which we seem to be in short supply of these days after taking on two more vassals.

Not really, we have the ability to integrate multiple subordinates fairly easily, and can continue to up our subordinate slots via the Games and megaproject rush.
 
The other concern I the value of the eastren black sea coast and the ageian and ionain coasts. By shifting the trade route, we are basically dooming those regions.
What? Why would the italian coast and OUR OWN COASTLINE be damaged in trade value by the existence of an efficient canal route? this makes utterly no sense.
 
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If we want a massive terrain shaping prestige project of questionable value we already have the triangle canal. This idea of building a canal (That would still leave us captive to another polities whims in regard to reaching the saffron sea) rather than simply gaining access to the existing strait one way or another just seems like a very poor idea.
 
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Eh, the canal really doesn't doom the region. I mean, you can't really transport big ships through the canal unless you're crazy enough to dredge the whole length.
It will spell doom for the Trelli though they rely on us and the Khem using them as the middleman to trade with each other with that gone they lose all our goods as we will see no point in trading with them.
 
We're connecting the Mediterranean to the northern anatolia-caucasus river networks , the fauna will bloody well get affected.
you say that as if the rivers aren't right next to each other. And thus probably connected by streams or cross-pollinated by eagles grabbing fish and accidentally dropping them and etc.

Both of the river networks lead to water that connects to the meditteranean, so only the freshwater part matters.
 
I agree with you on this, but I think the issue is that over the centuries, which go by quickly, we could see them turn into something we don't like.

They also consume a subordinate/peripheral slot which we seem to be in short supply of these days after taking on two more vassals.

What could see everything turn to stuff we don't like, but we players have the power of intervention, we're playing God in a very literal sence. And keep in mind that it is just as likely for us to be pleasantly surprised as perturbed.

As for for the vassal slots, we have enough for two, and that's all we're given an option on.
 
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [FC] Sacred Forest
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything togetherinternally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
 
you say that as if the rivers aren't right next to each other. And thus probably connected by streams or cross-pollinated by eagles grabbing fish and accidentally dropping them and etc.

Both of the river networks lead to water that connects to the meditteranean, so only the freshwater part matters.


It a massive connection, species (fish, algae, insects and whatnot) from both sides would move in creating heavoc in the local ecology. The suez canal did a number on the fish variety, and this is a far larger scale project.
 
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If we want a massive terrain shaping prestige project of questionable value we already have the triangle canal. This idea of building a canal (That would still leave us captive to another polities whims in regard to reaching the saffron sea) rather than simply gaining access to the existing strait one way or another just seems like a very poor idea.
it's not of questionable value
its value is Cost of Trell Middle-manning - Cost of Creation. Over time, the cost of Trell Middle Manning will far outshadow the cost of its creation.

The khem are the main recipients and creators of the relevant trade goods, anyways. Only Saffron is an important external good.
 
It a massive connection, species (fish, algae, insects and whatnot) from both sides would move in creating heavoc in the local ecology. The size canal did a number on the fish variety, and this is a far larger scale project.
algae & insects move easily anyways. fish possibly have a harder time. doesn't really matter tho, it's just a riverine ecology, it will adjust.

The fact that you're comparing connecting completely different seas w/ each other to linking two different rivers is really weird.
 
What? Why would the italian coast and OUR OWN COASTLINE be damaged in trade value by the existence of an efficient canal route? this makes utterly no sense.


Because as ships sail, they stay close to the shore and stop at the various ports and harbours on the way. By creating a new route that circumvent most of the coastline, those ports and harbours and the entire local economies and peoples that live off them are now fucked. For the ships don't traverse and stop along the route anymore.
 
Because as ships sail, they stay close to the shore and stop at the various ports and harbours on the way. By creating a new route that circumvent most of the coastline, those ports and harbours and the entire local economies and peoples that live off them are now fucked. For the ships don't traverse and stop along the route anymore.
who cares about other people, lol

they'll still benefit from a lessened amount of our goods going through the trell and goods from the khem moving north.

And their own goods or whatever.
 
algae & insects move easily anyways. fish possibly have a harder time. doesn't really matter tho, it's just a riverine ecology, it will adjust.

The fact that you're comparing connecting completely different seas w/ each other to linking two different rivers is really weird.


Look, I like fish, and I'll fight tooth and nail to preserve it. Fish belongs in the oven, not on the history books.
 
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yes it does

we're just that damned weird as players
No, it makes sense only from an OoC perspective.

Our ability to choose traits from other states was a representation of our in-narrative abilities in taking in and assimilating foreign cultures successfully.

1: Unlike we the players, our in-game government is not actually choosing what traits get absorbed into our society. That is purely just whatever culture becomes successful enough in adding their own part to the mixing pot that it catches on to our society as a whole. Narratively, it just so happens that the highlander immigrants were able to add their own part, which can be attributed to the fact that our cultures grew up side-by-side and have been intermixing for centuries thus making it easier for highlander culture refugees and immigrants to assimilate than, say, Khemetrians.

2: We never hated the highlander people in the first place, but rather we disliked the government in place over the culture. It makes no sense to limit based on culture when our feud is not at all cultural or societal in nature.

If anything, it would make far more sense for the Ymaryn to have a DB like this due to how quickly we have been changing within the last few turns

"Amorphous Culture: Due to your nature of constantly adding new cultures into your own, your society and culture are constantly evolving in unpredictable ways, for better or worse. Effects: You lose control over what traits you gain from neighbors, and your traits will sometimes randomly mutate to an unknown based on your neighbors and dominant cultural partners. Taking in refugees raises the chances of random mutation."
 
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No, it makes sense only from an OoC perspective.
think of the US-japan relationship
absolutely hated and yet were fascinated w/ each other (and later switched to weird captive love)
you can hate someone and yet admit they're successful and want to copy parts of them

Look, I like fish, and I'll fight tooth and nail to preserve it. Fish belong in the oven, not on the history books.
they're two rivers that are right next to each other and thus are likely to be populated by similar species or varieties of the same species

even if one of them magically has a deadly fish that destroys the entire ecosystem of the other river, it won't matter. Whatever gave that organism such power will be regulated by the other organisms that travel w/ it.
 
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Because as ships sail, they stay close to the shore and stop at the various ports and harbours on the way. By creating a new route that circumvent most of the coastline, those ports and harbours and the entire local economies and peoples that live off them are now fucked. For the ships don't traverse and stop along the route anymore.
Look, I like fish, and I'll fight tooth and nail to preserve it. Fish belong in the oven, not on the history books.

They might just trade through the Khemetri colony instead of paying through the nose of trading through the Trelli. Also, with a canal in gullvalley, trade will increase for the whole region.
 
who cares about other people, lol

they'll still benefit from a lessened amount of our goods going through the trell and goods from the khem moving north.

And their own goods or whatever.

Those stopping ports are what blends and spreads culture, ideas and people's across the coastline. And economic collapse may very well spur greater regional implosion and an explosion in piracy/banditry.

They also happen to be scenic and quite romantic.

Lastly, Death by shifting trade routes is a horrible way to go.
 
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