A reminder: having intrinsic value is a significant negative in a currency.

There's a reason everyone in the world's switched to fiat; it works better.
...in modern times. When you can have the full authority of the state behind a currency. But in pre-modern times, you simply couldn't guarantee the value of a currency except by letting it have an intrinsic value due to being tied to precious metals.
 
Impractical laws are evaded, avoided, then ignored, leading to erosion of respect for the law, corruption, other forms of social decay.

Rule #1 of leadership: Do not issue orders you know will not be followed.

You're making the fallacious assumption that by not focusing on practicality, the laws will be unenforceable. This is unlikely to be true.
 
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
 
I don't control the bandwagon, but I'll see what I can do since the logic behind that is good.

I think a Sacred Forest Spirit Chief is going to make that split worse unless he has very good Diplomacy on top of that Mysticism.

Remember the Rulwynas mother for an extreme example. Just imagine her trying to heal a forming schism.



Btw, would it be possible to make paper money using extremely expensive dye, ideally quantities and qualities of dye corresponding to the bills worth?

That might be an actual way to prevent counterfeiting. Tyrian purple is already near priceless. And using it to dye a paper slip means that it's just impractical to copy because you'd need a lot of money for it and you can't extract the expensive dye either, so no one is going to carry it out of the Kingdom as it would look like an extravagant waste for everyone else.

Thoughts?
 
@Academia Nut , what our Admin chief says about ease/difficulty of implementing Law with different philosophies?
What does he(she?) say about ease/difficulty of different ways of taxation? How practical accounting of labour will be for clerks?
 
That might be an actual way to prevent counterfeiting. Tyrian purple is already near priceless. And using it to dye a paper slip means that it's just impractical to copy because you'd need a lot of money for it and you can't extract the expensive dye either, so no one is going to carry it out of the Kingdom as it would look like an extravagant waste for everyone else.
Why do this when you can just make a special vitriol based dye of a specific tint, feel, and smell then make it so that only a select few know how to make it?
 
Btw, would it be possible to make paper money using extremely expensive dye, ideally quantities and qualities of dye corresponding to the bills worth?
Eeeh.

Remember that currency wears out. We don't actually want the cost of making it to be high per note, just the cost of the infrastructure required to print the notes to be prohibitive for anyone not the state.
 
player or province action increase would be amazing if also unlikely
You are probably right, but I'm still hoping for at least a slight increase to our actions. Maybe something like this:
Player Actions: 2 [Main] + 1 [Secondary] or even better 1 [Main] + 3 [Secondary] for more flexibility.
Basically increasing our available actions up to the equivalent of 5 Secondary actions, but without the current Double Main requirement.
 
Why do this when you can just make a special vitriol based dye of a specific tint, feel, and smell then make it so that only a select few know how to make it?

We'd first have to figure one out and manage to keep it secret. Using Tyrian purple just means it's prohibitively expensive to make fake bills. You might as well not bother.

Eeeh.

Remember that currency wears out. We don't actually want the cost of making it to be high per note, just the cost of the infrastructure required to print the notes to be prohibitive for anyone not the state.

True. But then we could use a more sturdy medium. The important part is to have a way to not need precious metals for our transactions.

These don't even need to be the large denominations. Just something that would make currency practically available to the farmers. Even if we incur an ongoing cost, I think the macro-economic advantages would balance it out.

As well as making our clerks cry less.
 
You are probably right, but I'm still hoping for at least a slight increase to our actions. Maybe something like this:
Player Actions: 2 [Main] + 1 [Secondary] or even better 1 [Main] + 3 [Secondary] for more flexibility.
Basically increasing our available actions up to the equivalent of 5 Secondary actions, but without the current Double Main requirement.
We already have the first but the second would be reasonable.

I consider it hellaciously unlikely to happen though. What will probably happen is province actions, especially with how the Law is a big part of this.

As well as making our clerks cry less.
I am sadly confident we have killed a few by overwork and aneurysms over our history.
 
Looks like the vote is set. Wonder when tax service agency becomes a separate arm of the government.

Would they fell under Ministry of labour?
 
So... how the fuck are we going to spend our stats?

Even if this population explosion lasts for a single extra turn, we have to spend an absolute shitload in order to keep our stats from overflowing into martial. So, I guess we should just keep that megaproject spree running.

The law isn't finished, but our provinces will finish it for us. This lets us have a turn for more mundane concerns before we start the next megaproject. Our biggest concerns currently are: Western Wall independence, Stallion Tribe integration, Txolla loyalty, Heavens Hawk loyalty.

I propose that we solve two of our long standing issues in one swipe while at the same time significantly reducing our martial for integration and reducing our secondary stats to reduce overflow. We are likely to see at least one extra turn of this population explosion, and that, combined with our still overflowing wealth and the econ from the incoming march will ensure our stats will refill quite rapidly to drop us into a golden age

Next turn:

[M] Influence Subordinate - Txolla
[Sec] Found Mercenary Company - Stallion Tribes - Paid
[Sec] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes

Stat counts:
Current:
General
Diplomacy 15 [+1]
Economy 16 [-1+12]
-Sustainable Forests 10/11
-Econ Expansion 10 [+1-12]
Martial 10 {15}
Wealth 16 [+5-1]

Cultural
Culture 7
Mysticism 7 (+6) [+1]
Tech 5
Prestige 57

Stability
Stability 3 (emboldened)
Legitimacy 3 (max)

Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Religious Authority 4

Diplo: 15+1=16-3(Influence)-6(Integrate)=7+8(Wealth Overflow)+???(Wealth Overflow)=16-???(Overflow -> Culture)
Econ: 16+11=27-3(Influence)=24-8(Overflow -> Wealth)+???(Integrate)-???(Overflow -> Wealth)=16
Econ Expansion: 10-11=0 No overcrowding extra goes to colonies.
Martial: 10-8(Merc Comp)=2{7}+~12(Integrate)=14{19}
Wealth: 16+4=20-3(Influence)-1(New Merc)=16+8(Econ Overflow)+???(Econ Overflow)=24-8(Overflow -> Diplo)-???(Overflow -> Diplo)=16
Culture: 7-3(Influence)=4+???(Diplo Overflow)
Mysticism: 7+6=15-3(Influence)-2(The Law)+1=11
Tech: 5-3(Influence)-2(The Law)=0

This leaves us right at golden age levels if not higher, depending on how much econ the march brings in. This solves two of our major problems concerning our subordinate, and leaves just enough space for the last piece of The Law. Our provinces will likely help us boost tech, so that isn't a worry.

More importantly, this leaves us a significant stat sink in the form of the Tech stat to ride out at least one more Population Explosion worth of stats without going into additional martial. Another merc company can always be created the next turn.
 
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So... how the fuck are we going to spend our stats?

Even if this population explosion lasts for a single extra turn, we have to spend an absolute shitload in order to keep our stats from overflowing into martial. So, I guess we should just keep that megaproject spree running.

The law isn't finished, but our provinces will finish it for us. This lets us have a turn for more mundane concerns before we start the next megaproject. Our biggest concerns currently are: Western Wall independence, Stallion Tribe integration, Txolla loyalty, Heavens Hawk loyalty.

I propose that we solve two of our long standing issues in one swipe while at the same time significantly reducing our martial for integration and reducing our secondary stats to reduce overflow. We are likely to see at least one extra turn of this population explosion, and that, combined with our still overflowing wealth and the econ from the incoming march will ensure our stats will refill quite rapidly to drop us into a golden age

Next turn:

[M] Influence Subordinate - Txolla
[Sec] Found Mercenary Company - Stallion Tribes - Paid
[Sec] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes

Stat counts:
Current:


Diplo: 15+1=16-3(Influence)-6(Integrate)=7+8(Wealth Overflow)+???(Wealth Overflow)=16-???(Overflow -> Culture)
Econ: 16+11=27-3(Influence)=24-8(Overflow -> Wealth)+???(Integrate)-???(Overflow -> Wealth)=16
Econ Expansion: 10-11=0 No overcrowding extra goes to colonies.
Martial: 10-8(Merc Comp)=2{7}+~12(Integrate)=14{19}
Wealth: 16+4=20-3(Influence)-1(New Merc)=16+8(Econ Overflow)+???(Econ Overflow)=24-8(Overflow -> Diplo)-???(Overflow -> Diplo)=16
Culture: 7-3(Influence)=4+???(Diplo Overflow)
Mysticism: 7+6=15-3(Influence)-2(The Law)+1=11
Tech: 5-3(Influence)-2(The Law)=0

This leaves us right at golden age levels if not higher, depending on how much econ the march brings in. This solves two of our major problems concerning our subordinate, and leaves just enough space for the last piece of The Law. Our provinces will likely help us boost tech, so that isn't a worry.

More importantly, this leaves us a significant stat sink in the form of the Tech stat to ride out at least one more Population Explosion worth of stats without going into additional martial. Another merc company can always be created the next turn.
You have my vote sir
 
The law isn't finished, but our provinces will finish it for us. This lets us have a turn for more mundane concerns before we start the next megaproject. Our biggest concerns currently are: Western Wall independence, Stallion Tribe integration, Txolla loyalty, Heavens Hawk loyalty.
I'm pretty sure the law is finished, since the Tax Crisis isn't on the civ sheet anymore? I think our choices right now will influence the bonus and fluff for the megaproject listing, so we wont get that until after this vote, but i think we've finished the actual project actions.
We already have the first but the second would be reasonable.

I consider it hellaciously unlikely to happen though. What will probably happen is province actions, especially with how the Law is a big part of this.
I think they meant being able to do
Main A
Main B
Secondary C
Instead of having to do
Main A
Main Ax2
Secondary C

Which is possible; its the same number of discrete actions, so its not too much action bloat. I still think its unlikely, but i think its possible with the gov upgrade. I think the law will give an extra passive policy, and maybe upgrade enforce justice again, or unlock a new active/passive policy, or maybe even unlock a new mechanic, since the Law gave us policy mechanic early, gave us a doubled policy action, upgraded enforce authority to enforce law, and unlocked megaproject support policy.
 
So you are saying in a culture of communal caring tree huggers that not one person tried to help a obviously abused and underfed woman?

Not even when working in a government facility supervised by shamans? Remember all smelting and metal working center have shamans attached to it for health reasons.

We created a scenario where by legally calling attention to help her we're also fucking her over.
Part of the tax crisis was multiple resultant catch 22s.

It just seems like the most reliable way to have the provinces take forest actions right now...especially since I'd rather stay on megaproject policy.

So, Grand Docks next turn at normal pace to give the Golden Age time to begin, then kick the Dam on the following turn?

Or do we just start the Dam next turn without kicking, expecting refugees to drop Stability in time for the Dam bonus to fix it? Backup option, I think AN said it would probably become prestige. And we would then be finishing the Dam during the Golden Age.

Or do we start the Dam and Games simultaneously, thus making both take long enough that we can reasonably expect to have time for refugee waves? Granted, that would delay influence and integrations, but OTOH, the Hawks - and any wild nomads! - will absolutely love the games, and the Dam will connect us much better to the Txolla.

The Dam might have something for a Heroic Mystic to consider, since it's land management/ecological engineering on a large scale, and theres a few possible breakthroughs on ecology, agriculture, hydropower, engineering and material technologies behind it.

@Academia Nut what option will fix the half exile problem?

Depends strongly on what part of the problem you're referring to I believe.
If it's to the demand for Half Exile jobs, then the only answer is improved tools and mechanization so that they no longer need so many dudes.

If it's to the half exile abuse problem in the fringes where they are used like slaves, Gods, Community Health and Balance of Interests would probably stopper it for their own reasons.
The Ymaryn do everything in bursts it seems, it was only four updates ago that we transitioned from oligarchic ancient kingdom and now we are going for Classical Elective Monarchy.
We've had all the parts present for a long time already.
Just got distracted.

What do people think the chances of gaining steel during this golden age are?
We have a legacy that allows it.
Someone posted a supersaiyin pic during baby boom. Now our baby boom has doubled.

Super-saiyin 2?
Considering we are passively generating the entire economies of maybe three other states right now...yeah.

It won't last forever, but it's spectacular.
Isn't the problem less acquiring steel and more mass producing it? I mean for all that steel is an amazing metal for both weapons and tools it is also incredibly expensive to manufacture at our tech level.

Steel isn't that difficult to produce with current tools, at least relative to iron. It's a conceptual leap, but the hard part is figuring out the process.
The real problem was producing enough iron, but now that we have the hammer mill bloomery we've broken through that too.

Build an Arsenal annex, + well developed printing press. Have the Blackbirds keep track of who has the equipment to build or acquire their own presses - the Ymaryn don't actually have a view of property rights that'd make restricting those particular tools problematic.

We're not there yet, but we're not that far from it, either.

Especially when we're unquestionably the local leader in alchemy, and thus can probably make inks no one else can.

It is probably near, but not something we're at yet. While we may have the science for it, getting people to accept fiat currency is difficult, and constitutes a technology in itself.

We'd be going from: Barter(goods for goods) -> Standard barter(goods for common valuable good) -> Early currency(good for premeasured quantity of common valuable good) -> Currency(good for marked symbolic quantity of common valuable good) -> Fiat Currency(good for symbolic value)

We don't even have cheques yet.

Community Health will probably open up more reasons to shun people for being different and thus damaging to the community. No thanks.

It shouldn't due to Cosmopolitan Acceptance.
Being different is not a shunning quality here.

The big problem with community health down the line is probably slowing down industrialization and other developments which causes harm to parts of the community, and a greater backlash against industrial, research and mining incidents...which is good in moderation, but we also know that whatever we choose will NOT be moderate.
 
I'm pretty sure the law is finished, since the Tax Crisis isn't on the civ sheet anymore? I think our choices right now will influence the bonus and fluff for the megaproject listing, so we wont get that until after this vote, but i think we've finished the actual project actions.
If we have, then this changes things drastically. It's actually better if we haven't, oddly enough. @Academia Nut have we finished the law or do we have one action remaining?
 
If we have, then this changes things drastically. It's actually better if we haven't, oddly enough. @Academia Nut have we finished the law or do we have one action remaining?
Also, we went from 55 prestige to 57, and proclaim glory only gives at most 1 prestige, so unless getting population explosion triggered a prestige gain, the other prestige is from completing the megapreject
 
Ergh. That breaks off our Megaproject Support the hard way.

I'd prefer

[main] Games or Dam
[secondary] Influence
[secondary] Found Mercenary Company

Or something similar that starts a Megaproject up.

That all goes out the window if our midturn can start a Megaproject, though, in which case I'd be happy to back yours.
 
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