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Paths of Civilization

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Academia Nut said:
Their immediate neighbours work for them. Those that didn't were wiped out by those that hired on, sold off to the Saffron Islands, Khemetri, and Tin Tribes, their land brought under Trelli control or gifted to their mercs as a reward
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.....And they are even bigger dicks than I originally thought. Wholesale genocide and enslavement of entire peoples without being in a defensive war? Yeah, we need to kill these guys eventually, in the next century or two maybe.
 
Updating with more approval votes.

Also, with AN's clarification about Golden Age being effectively Expand Econ, I'm not so sure about seeking it immediately during the baby boom. Palace may be more important. Or mills are awesome.

[] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, East
[X] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[X] [Exp] Found Mercenary Company
[X] [Exp] Do nothing here

External Diplomacy
[X] [Diplo] Open fresh trade (Two Sec Trade Missions to neighbours)
[] [Diplo] Demonstrate wealth (Main Salt Gift)
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything further together (Main New Trails)

Internal Focus
[X] [Int] Build palace (Extra megaproject action)
[] [Int] Plant forests (Main Expand Forests)
[X] [Int] Water wheels are awesome (Main Build Mills)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

Note that I've left some options blank if I don't want them but others might want to copy the block, while I've removed simply suicidal ones like Integrate Stallions.

ETA Added North because East can't win :(
 
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And here I am wondering why people don't change their votes/minds after WoG saying that if the Trelli managed to block us, it will get dicey.
 
Glassware said:
How does one fight a blockade in this era? Basically send lots of big boats full of guys, I imagine. Will Support Subordinate counteract blockade actions in any meaningful way?
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Assuming our ships and their ships are in same age group.

Harassing our transport focused ships with their faster ships while tying up our war leaning ships with their other ships.

Then they can park 2 of their ships to fight against our individual ships from both side, creating individual tactical advantage.

They do not need to kill /capture every ship, just make it more expansive and damaging to us than them.

The private sector's shipping will tank and we will be forced to make secondary or main action to support distant trade posts.

Also, beware of they tying their expandable coastal ships to our seafaring ship and set fire to both.
 
McLuvin said:
.....And they are even bigger dicks than I originally thought. Wholesale genocide and enslavement of entire peoples without being in a defensive war? Yeah, we need to kill these guys eventually, in the next century or two maybe.
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I am pretty sure that in destroying Xohyr we've killed more people then Trelli ever did. :V

@Academia Nut , could you chime in on how number of people Phygrif killed in the Xohyr compares to number of people killed by Trelli?
 
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ctulhuslp said:
I am pretty sure that in destroying Xohyr we've killed more people then Trelli ever did. :V

@Academia Nut , could you chime in on how number of people Phygrif killed in the Xohyr compares to number of people killed by Trelli?
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We had no control over that I'll have you remember, we didn't vote to burn Xoh to the ground. We may have voted Phygrif in but we didn't make him commit genocide, it's like with the Mines last update, we chose to send lots of support but we didn't choose to cut corners for speed to repay that investment.
 
Kiba said:
And here I am wondering why people don't change their votes/minds after WoG saying that if the Trelli managed to block us, it will get dicey.
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SV is overconfident + SV thinks everyone else is a moron + shiny + people do not want to change the already established votes.
Given the people here seriously thought that it is feasible to go and settle steppes despite AN outright saying multiple times that we flat cannot hope to do that within next several millenia until telegraph+gunpowder, I am not surprised.

Umi-san said:
@ctulhuslp don't forget the slaves
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We burned those too :V Or took them to us as "refugees", scarequotes wholesale taken from the text of the update.
But we tooootally have moral highground, hah.
 
ctulhuslp said:
We burned those too :V Or took them to us as "refugees", scarequotes wholesale taken from the text of the update.
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We burned the Xohyr slaves or rescued them (equally likely, imo).

But the Trell enslave people, breed them, sell them off. They're less likely to kill people than we are because they can sell them instead.


Honestly, I 100% don't mind Phygrif. Like yes, burning the city was sad and I miss the Xohyrii. But I don't regret picking Phygrif.
 
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maximillian said:
To be fair both the NTP and ETP rely on hypocriticals.
However ETP carries a possiblity, however slim, of a war that we are rather unprepared for.
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In the immediate term, the western post doesn't do anything to prepare us, though?

Long term, it could somewhat interfere with their tin supply, but all that means in the short term is, war becomes far more likely.

I'm still in favor of building boats and an extra mercenary company. That's as much as any plan can prepare IMO.
 
ctulhuslp said:
@Karugus , you've already got your Lowlands expansion, why don't you push for forting it up to properly expand there instead? :V
Like, you were one of the most vocal pro-Lowland-expansion people in the thread, IIRC.
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And now I'm one of the most vocal pro-Bosporus expansion people in the thread :V

But nah, all I'm really looking for here is to force the Trelli into quiescence so we can shift our focus back to the Lowlands and the ST without them obstructing trade for a while. Basically, try and beat on the Trelli before they dominate the Not!Aegean and start getting even more ambitious.


And frankly, if we play our cards right- we're not going to be fighting the descending Trelli alone- we're buying just as much Tin as the Trelli if not more at that point from the Tin Tribes and we can supply them copper at a bargain for domestic bronze production- all along a route nigh impossible for the Trelli to interdict (GS to New TP). Combine that with generally further improving the wealth of the region and possibly sharing some innovations and there are good odds we can at least get some local tribal auxiliaries to back us up. Especially because if we do get driven out of the TP, their access to a lot of luxuries like; glass, dye, fine pottery, gems, and wine actually diminishes. To say nothing of the overwhelming amounts of salt we'll trade. Slaves are something they can probably acquire more of on their own with enough bronze- there's plenty of people in land in the Not!Danubian basin, but we can establish ourselves as their lifeline to luxury goods that the noble mine owners are going to want.
 
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[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, East
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)
 
SpeckofStardust said:
We could have prevented it easily either by not picking the nomad option or by pulling all our troops back.
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Oh yeah, leave ourselves open to a prolonged war and more death by pulling our troops back, or pick the other shitty options that screw us instead of the Nomad option when we didn't know he was going to burn an entire city down.

That bullshit is like someone whose ancestor was a slave owner acting like he was just as guilty. It's absolute crap.
 
History sheet updated. I also went through and added Econ Expansion from before it was a stat on all the turn AN provided it.

Which allows me to provide a graph of LTE and Econ through history. Econ expansion slots are the area between the two lines; when they touch, we get overcrowding.

Edit: My X-axis is fucked. Lemme fix.
 
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McLuvin said:
Oh yea, leave ourselves open to a prolonged war and more death by pulling our troops back, or pick the other shitty options that screw us instead of the Nomad option when we didn't know he was going to burn an entire city down.

That bullshit is like someone whose ancestor was a slave owner acting like he was just as guilty. It's absolute crap.
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And refusing that choices we make have consequences is crap. Now should we punish ourselves for said choices? no, we should however admit we have made them and strive to do better or at least not judge people for making choices we don't like.
 
Well, after all those AN posts I think we can assume that a war against the Trelli + Mercenaries + Tin Tribes is a serious possibility. So, it will probably come down to how well the RB can perform. If we roll really well the potential Trelli threat might be dealt with for decades. If we roll badly the RB, the WTP and Greenshore might just be lost to blockades and starvation.
 
Karugus said:
But nah, all I'm really looking for here is to force the Trelli into quiescence
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And how shall we achieve that when they have the advantages of numbers, logistics (just look at where that location *is*), and boats?

And frankly, if we play our cards right- we're not going to be fighting the descending Trelli alone-
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Then how do we expect to win?

we're buying just as much Tin as the Trelli if not more at that point from the Tin Tribes and we can supply them copper at a bargain for domestic bronze production-
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May I refer you to the update, pointing out that the reason the Trelli are making pirates is because they figure, Why give anything in exchange when you can just take everything? If they think their mercs can take our trading post by force, they likely will try.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
And refusing that choices we make have consequences is crap. Now should we punish ourselves for said choices? no, we should however admit we have made them and strive to do better or at least not judge people for making choices we don't like.
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I'm judging the Trelli for basically commiting a holocaust. Jesus man I have every justification for that shit, especially considering the people that did it and the culture that chose to do it is still around and very prevalent.

We indirectly caused a tragedy and then felt guilty over it, they orchestrated and perpetuated a genocidal, slave taking, rampage to line their pockets with coin
 
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