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Paths of Civilization

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Adhoc vote count started by Finite on Jul 14, 2017 at 8:11 AM, finished with 75611 posts and 81 votes.
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So we're going to build a navy. What designs do you guys want to go for? Speed? Size?

Size help us supply our TP better, and carry more people to a fight, and make our ships harder to board.

OTOH, speed let us dodge our enemies more readily and increase communication speed.

I think I rather not compete with the Trelli on something they're good at. So size would be my choice.
 
veekie said:
Bolded is outright false. We gain massive bonuses on defense. It's our cornerstone trait. Then you factor in having Mortared walls and towers, with skilled archers and shieldwalls.

At the same time, the attacker is always disadvantaged, especially if you're performing an amphibious assault at a long distance.
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I doubt a turn or two of walls or watchtowers would matter much to the assumed number of mercenary companies, assuming they do that instead of performing their intended function of regulating trade to and fro Trelli through trade missions.

Their preferred action to take against us would be a blitzkrieg as you have stated. Assuming we are not overrun after the first assault thanks to the Red Banner, the second wave would surely finish us off before requested assistance reaches the trade post (the distances we have to cover is huge!).

Last but not least, the Trellians are not surrounded by opportunistic backstabbers like we are. Throwing Martial this faraway and hoping everything works out is a gamble which once again I don't wish to take and I hope people would reconsider.
 
Question for everyone. Assuming we aren't at war at the time, what would people want to do as our action-plan next turn?

End of turn, we should have enough econ to do 6 megaproject actions, and we can do that if we take 2x megaproject ourselves and let the provinces + law + symphony cover the other four; however, that only works if we don't use our secondary for something that requires econ.

So basically, the options are something like this:
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that doesn't use econ
    • Gets 6 palace actions, getting us to 9 progress out of 8-10. Probably finished!
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that uses 1 econ
    • Gets 5 palace actions plus two secondaries of art/econ generation. Progress at 8 out of 8-10, probably unfinished.
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that uses 2 econ
    • Terrible idea. Provinces do one meaproject action which is boosted by the law and then voluntarily skip the symphony bonus. Derp.
  • Take 1 megaproject action + a main that uses at most 1 econ
    • Gets 5 palace actions. Progress at 8 out of 8-10, probably unfinished.
  • Take 1 megaproject action + a main that uses 2 econ
    • Gets 4 palace actions plus two secondaries of art/econ generation.
  • Take no megaproject actions
    • Gets 3 palace actions. Doesn't get the Symphony bonus. May or may not get free secondary, depending on whether we double up our main actions.
Now personally, if nothing else comes up, I would prefer to go all-in on the megaproject. Not sure what to do with the secondary action, but New Settlement is looking pretty good to me. Sailing Mission, Trade Mission, or Survey Lands would also make decent alternatives. And of course, Enforce Justice is technically on the table too, though judging by the last turn there is a sizable fraction of the voter base that will be categorically opposed to it.
 
Finite Magician said:
I doubt a turn or two of walls or watchtowers would matter much to the assumed number of mercenary companies, assuming they do that instead of performing their intended function of regulating trade to and fro Trelli through trade missions.

Their preferred action to take against us would be a blitzkrieg as you have stated. Assuming we are not overrun after the first assault thanks to the Red Banner, the second wave would surely finish us off before requested assistance reaches the trade post (the distances we have to cover is huge!).

Last but not least, the Trellians are not surrounded by opportunistic backstabbers like we are. Throwing Martial this faraway and hoping everything works out is a gamble which once again I don't wish to take and I hope people would reconsider.
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Unless they have siegecraft, a walled TP is pretty much "go home".
 
@veekie, you use log drivers to guide the logs. As for risks to shipping, you can create time lines for shipping and log driving to avoid the hazards.
But yes the major benefits of the north would not be reaped in a generation. But two to six turns down the line it would provide us with an advantage that states couldn't dream of before the age of imperialism.



 
maximillian said:
@veekie, you use log drivers to guide the logs. As for risks to shipping, you can create time lines for shipping and log driving to avoid the hazards.
But yes the major benefits of the north would not be reaped in a generation. But two to six turns down the line it would provide us with an advantage that states couldn't dream of before the age of imperialism.



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Log driving would be an incredibly dangerous job. I am not sure if the Ymaryns are willing to do that.
 
Kiba said:
Watermill Innovation List:

Green is implemented.

Technical Upgrade:

  • Waterwheel -> Water Turbine (industrial era)
  • Watermill -> Windmill
  • Ship mill
  • Tide mill
  • Team boat - Waterwheel propulsion powered by animals.
  • Noria

Applications:

  • Gristmill
  • Blademill
  • Barkmill
  • Blast Furnace
  • Paper mill
  • Oil mill - crush seeds into oil
  • Sawmill
  • Powder mill
  • Water pumping
    • Noria
  • Ore Crusher
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Did further reformatting, and decided we already implemented a few things like crushing ores and milling grains.
 
Finite Magician said:
Last but not least, the Trellians are not surrounded by opportunistic backstabbers like we are.
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How in the world do you know that? Just because we haven't seen serious direct threats to Trelli doesn't mean they aren't there, and isn't even much in the way of evidence given that we've seen rather little about Trelli in the first place.

And the prior for having opportunistic backstabbers is rather high, particularly if you interact with lots of people (as Trell does).
 
@veekie, while your arguments have merit, it will still be very hard to defend due to logistical concerns, especially with contested waters.
Are you willing to actually fully support this colony? I mean..are you going to vote for Support Subordinate at them next turn? Because colony in hostile lands is going to be very vulnerable and we have to kickstart it.
 
PrimalShadow said:
How in the world do you know that? Just because we haven't seen serious direct threats to Trelli doesn't mean they aren't there, and isn't even much in the way of evidence given that we've seen rather little about Trelli in the first place.

And the prior for having opportunistic backstabbers is rather high, particularly if you interact with lots of people (as Trell does).
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Trelli already have people who hated their guts: The tribes that they and their mercenaries currently raiding for slaves.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Question for everyone. Assuming we aren't at war at the time, what would people want to do as our action-plan next turn?

End of turn, we should have enough econ to do 6 megaproject actions, and we can do that if we take 2x megaproject ourselves and let the provinces + law + symphony cover the other four; however, that only works if we don't use our secondary for something that requires econ.

So basically, the options are something like this:
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that doesn't use econ
    • Gets 6 palace actions, getting us to 9 progress out of 8-10. Probably finished!
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that uses 1 econ
    • Gets 5 palace actions plus two secondaries of art/econ generation. Progress at 8 out of 8-10, probably unfinished.
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that uses 2 econ
    • Terrible idea. Provinces do one meaproject action which is boosted by the law and then voluntarily skip the symphony bonus. Derp.
  • Take 1 megaproject action + a main that uses at most 1 econ
    • Gets 5 palace actions. Progress at 8 out of 8-10, probably unfinished.
  • Take 1 megaproject action + a main that uses 2 econ
    • Gets 4 palace actions plus two secondaries of art/econ generation.
  • Take no megaproject actions
    • Gets 3 palace actions. Doesn't get the Symphony bonus. May or may not get free secondary, depending on whether we double up our main actions.
Now personally, if nothing else comes up, I would prefer to go all-in on the megaproject. Not sure what to do with the secondary action, but New Settlement is looking pretty good to me. Sailing Mission, Trade Mission, or Survey Lands would also make decent alternatives. And of course, Enforce Justice is technically on the table too, though judging by the last turn there is a sizable fraction of the voter base that will be categorically opposed to it.
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I like the math here and generally want to do an all in thing to get this bugger done. Depends though.
 
You realize that provoking the Trelli is a bad idea considering that we just got bonuses from not being provocative?

[X] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything further together (Main New Trails)
[X] [Int] Build palace (Extra megaproject action)
 
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Seriously, folks who vote for passive-agressive trade post: we will pretty much have to Main Support Subordinate them to give them seed economy for turn 1 walls and warriors, which they will be pretty much locked in.

It gives us 3 econ slots and room to handle Stallion Martial on integration, so it is a great action during baby boom, but we need thread discipline to not chase something else only to get fycked by Trelli rolling Heroic Martial.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Question for everyone. Assuming we aren't at war at the time, what would people want to do as our action-plan next turn?

End of turn, we should have enough econ to do 6 megaproject actions, and we can do that if we take 2x megaproject ourselves and let the provinces + law + symphony cover the other four; however, that only works if we don't use our secondary for something that requires econ.

So basically, the options are something like this:
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that doesn't use econ
    • Gets 6 palace actions, getting us to 9 progress out of 8-10. Probably finished!
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that uses 1 econ
    • Gets 5 palace actions plus two secondaries of art/econ generation. Progress at 8 out of 8-10, probably unfinished.
  • Take 2 megaproject actions + a secondary that uses 2 econ
    • Terrible idea. Provinces do one meaproject action which is boosted by the law and then voluntarily skip the symphony bonus. Derp.
  • Take 1 megaproject action + a main that uses at most 1 econ
    • Gets 5 palace actions. Progress at 8 out of 8-10, probably unfinished.
  • Take 1 megaproject action + a main that uses 2 econ
    • Gets 4 palace actions plus two secondaries of art/econ generation.
  • Take no megaproject actions
    • Gets 3 palace actions. Doesn't get the Symphony bonus. May or may not get free secondary, depending on whether we double up our main actions.
Now personally, if nothing else comes up, I would prefer to go all-in on the megaproject. Not sure what to do with the secondary action, but New Settlement is looking pretty good to me. Sailing Mission, Trade Mission, or Survey Lands would also make decent alternatives. And of course, Enforce Justice is technically on the table too, though judging by the last turn there is a sizable fraction of the voter base that will be categorically opposed to it.
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if we do not do the all megaproject plan than i want to do

main x2 Integrate Vassal
Secondary Enforce Justice

it get us golden age and fix any problems with the Lowland Minors before they start and if made a Colony it gives us a Legacy.
 
McLuvin said:
No we got bonuses for being the defenders in war, being provocative ensures that the Trelli probably attack first and we get those defensive benefits
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well....
Academia Nut said:
Hopefully they could also just use trade and shifting wealth around to get the Trelli to be less aggressive towards their neighbours, rather than encouraging strife for profit.

The gods had just lifted their curse from the People over not doing that!
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lets make LM in a Colony to get Econ Expansion with a duble main
Integrate Vassal - Now in contact with the core territories, the lowlanders can be brought more fully into the traditions of the People
*M: -4 Diplomacy, transitions vassal to March or Colony
*2M: -8 Diplomacy, transitions portion of vassal to full province, converts rest to March or Colony
 
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TheDanishLord said:
lets make LM in a Colony to get Econ Expansion
Integrate Vassal - Now in contact with the core territories, the lowlanders can be brought more fully into the traditions of the People
*M: -4 Diplomacy, transitions vassal to March or Colony
*2M: -8 Diplomacy, transitions portion of vassal to full province, converts rest to March or Colony
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Making them a colony will also prevent them from making stupid wars and encourage immigration of Ymaryns into the area.
 
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