- Location
- United States
@Academia Nut Would War Carts or Sacred Warriors cost econ?
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Pronouns
- He/Him
War Carts yes. Sacred Warriors... *waggles hand*
- Location
- Hell
Depends on what kind of infrastructure they have, if they have walls then Sacred Warriors because
Implies military application of our Shaper trait, i-e early start into siege craft.
If there are no walls, then War Carts. The lowlands are big flat areas. Having as many war carts as possible would be absolutely vital to winning.
XkaliburRage
Perpetual Procrastinator
[X] Do nothing (Other options for stability increase in main phase)
[X] [Main] War Mission: Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Harmony
[X] [Secondary] Sacred Warriors
[X] [Main] War Mission: Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Harmony
[X] [Secondary] Sacred Warriors
Restoration of Harmony does not sound like it will restore harmony. 
Fluff-wise I mean. Mechanically it probably does what it says on the box.
Fluff-wise I mean. Mechanically it probably does what it says on the box.
- Location
- United States
I hate choices that are both really good! It makes it so hard to decide
AN said war carts cost 1 econ and the sacred warriors might not cost anything (probably depending on success rolls?).
Given that we already have war carts, us not taking an econ action, and that sacred warriors would boost us to +1 stability (which would theoretically improve our citizens performance)...i'm leaning towards the sacred warriors.
If we lose the war mission, as unlikely as that is, the +1 stability we'd be at would easily shoulder the burden. Also, sacred warriors might also contribute to the war mission.
@Academia Nut Will our civ being at +1 stability directly affect our war mission performance? Also, will Sacred Warriors participate in the war mission?
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Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Sacred Warriors' description implies they'd be a different brand than the ST's type. We'd be petitioning the LAND and the FOREST spirits, which means we'd likely walk away with even more comprehensive rangers, possibly even good enough to function in wartime off of land-foraging rather than logistics, as opposed to the frothing berserkers the STs use.
Alternatively, War Carts means better logistics in general, and war carts would be especially effective in the lowlands for the fact that it's almost as flat as the northern areas. At the same time, unlike with the northern plains, the lowlands flood seasonally. A botched attempt to use carts there could leave our people even more in the lurch than if we didn't.
JUSTICE MUST BE SERVED! The powerful forget their place in the community as aides, not lords in their own right. It is right and just to remind them, especially before they press their disharmony further.Restoration of Harmony does not sound like it will restore harmony.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
[X] Do nothing (Other options forstability increase in main phase)
[X][Main] Restoration of Harmony
[X][Secondary] War Secondary - Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Sacred Warriors
The best possible combination in the best possible order.
[X][Main] Restoration of Harmony
[X][Secondary] War Secondary - Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Sacred Warriors
The best possible combination in the best possible order.
What about the new settlement action we took?
- Location
- Austria
Restoration of Harmony does not sound like it will restore harmony.
I guess it is less of a crackdown and more of a police force which roots out corrupted officials and stuff? I mean, if it is triggered by Harmony...OTOH, it does not mention Protective Justice, so....
We already have a bunch of war carts. It'd obviously be great to have even more, but I don't think they're as good as the Sacred Warriors, particularly since that will synergize with Restoration of Harmony, which should let us get away with doing Restoration as a secondary action.
Doing the war as a main action with a secondary boost to it should be enough to almost guarantee a success, especially since both the ST and WC are helping to fight them off as well.
Doing the war as a main action with a secondary boost to it should be enough to almost guarantee a success, especially since both the ST and WC are helping to fight them off as well.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Maybe, and possibly, depending on how things roll out, but I wouldn't bet on them being ready for this expedition if you choose to pick them up this turn.
Fixing...
Also, pretty soon I will probably stop tracking villages and contract it down to 'cities', of which you have two.
- Location
- Diamond City
I'm liking the current leading plan for the most part but my critique is logistics. It's a difficult-ish trip from us to the WC. It's going to be expensive and slow to send a war party over terrain like that, that likely only has informal dirt roads. If we're going to prosecute a war, we need better roads so our warriors and war carts can reach the WC easily. Armies win on logistics and we need to make sure ours are in top shape.
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Okay, so we have some new actions to look at. Now, I'm getting jealous of everyone else doing analysis, since I like doing them, so I'm going to go ahead and try my hand at it.
First off in our quest, let's identify changes on the front page, of which there seems to only be one:
Now, choices. We are locked into a war and effectively have three actions we can take. Either take it as a [Main Action] or two [Secondary Action]s, take it as a single [Secondary Action], or [] Back out of mission to the vote, which will cost us diplomacy. If we do enter this war, it's likely going to be for the long haul, as the Dead Priests do not practice proper farming techniques and use human sacrifices. As such, we should be prepared to war with them repeatedly.
I support the war effort, so I will be reviewing actions that would be good for it.
Expand Warriors: This will get us more troops on the ground and moving, allowing for the war to continue on, and for us to not be caught completely on the back foot if someone else fights us afterwards.
Expand Pasture: An econ action that will help increase our protein intake along with providing more animals for carts.
Build War Carts: War carts are effectively going to let us dominate the fight with the dead priests, and we are likely be sucked up into conflict with them again, so this has many advantages to our current military concerns.
New Trails: This action would allow us to travel to the battleground much more easily, bringing in reinforcements and food with much greater ease. It would also allow us to exert diplomatic influence on both the WC and the ST, which would greatly help in stopping a war.
Sacred Warriors: Imitating the ST's warriors could go two ways. Either we make holy warriors based on our own beliefs, or we follow the beserker attitude of the ST. I think this will be a good thing to take, but I want to more flesh out our spiritual beliefs before we take it. That is, I want to expand the place to spirits and study the forest before taking this. It also will not offer better advantages for this war than the War Carts would.
As for the issue of our stability increase:
Restoration of Harmony: I really do not want to increase stability this way. It will set a bad precedent and make us far more martially dominated than we otherwise would be.
And I think the other options are not very good. A significant part of why our society can work is that everyone has some level of Social Mobility, allowing for ideas to propegate between professions more easily. Trying to narrow it down to a few people will drastically decrease that, so I am very much not in favor of it.
Looking at this, I think my vote will be:
[X] [Main]War Mission: Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Expand Pasture
[X] [Secondary] Build War Carts
[X] Do nothing (Other options for stability increase in main phase)
While I'd prefer trails, they would cost Econ, and I'm not certain how much will get sucked up by this conflict. I really do want them next turn though.
Edit: Oh, and I missed our Stability being at -1. May change mind due to that.
First off in our quest, let's identify changes on the front page, of which there seems to only be one:
This is a pretty dangerous spiritual trait, as it can easily get us stuck into conflict with those we do not agree with. This also explains the Spirit Talker's inability to just let the Dead Priests lay there. Still, it will help us in the oncoming war.
Now, choices. We are locked into a war and effectively have three actions we can take. Either take it as a [Main Action] or two [Secondary Action]s, take it as a single [Secondary Action], or [] Back out of mission to the vote, which will cost us diplomacy. If we do enter this war, it's likely going to be for the long haul, as the Dead Priests do not practice proper farming techniques and use human sacrifices. As such, we should be prepared to war with them repeatedly.
I support the war effort, so I will be reviewing actions that would be good for it.
Expand Warriors: This will get us more troops on the ground and moving, allowing for the war to continue on, and for us to not be caught completely on the back foot if someone else fights us afterwards.
Expand Pasture: An econ action that will help increase our protein intake along with providing more animals for carts.
Build War Carts: War carts are effectively going to let us dominate the fight with the dead priests, and we are likely be sucked up into conflict with them again, so this has many advantages to our current military concerns.
New Trails: This action would allow us to travel to the battleground much more easily, bringing in reinforcements and food with much greater ease. It would also allow us to exert diplomatic influence on both the WC and the ST, which would greatly help in stopping a war.
Sacred Warriors: Imitating the ST's warriors could go two ways. Either we make holy warriors based on our own beliefs, or we follow the beserker attitude of the ST. I think this will be a good thing to take, but I want to more flesh out our spiritual beliefs before we take it. That is, I want to expand the place to spirits and study the forest before taking this. It also will not offer better advantages for this war than the War Carts would.
As for the issue of our stability increase:
Restoration of Harmony: I really do not want to increase stability this way. It will set a bad precedent and make us far more martially dominated than we otherwise would be.
And I think the other options are not very good. A significant part of why our society can work is that everyone has some level of Social Mobility, allowing for ideas to propegate between professions more easily. Trying to narrow it down to a few people will drastically decrease that, so I am very much not in favor of it.
Looking at this, I think my vote will be:
[X] [Main]War Mission: Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Expand Pasture
[X] [Secondary] Build War Carts
[X] Do nothing (Other options for stability increase in main phase)
While I'd prefer trails, they would cost Econ, and I'm not certain how much will get sucked up by this conflict. I really do want them next turn though.
Edit: Oh, and I missed our Stability being at -1. May change mind due to that.
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- Location
- Austria
According to the description, taking War Carts action means much faster adoption of actual small war carts instead of old war wagons, so it is almost a must, to a degree.
@Academia Nut , is 'Restore Harmony' not having a modifier from our Justice intentional? Because I am not sure if it's crackdown on everyone who disagrees or police action of sorts.
- Location
- United States
I'm pretty sure we've expanded roads to the WC in a previous turn. Also, building roads takes time and won't necessarily help in time for the war mission. If we had them built earlier, then it would be golden.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Restoring harmony is a punishment of especially greedy sub-chiefs who have begun hoarding community resources. It doesn't change how we work, it just reminds people that there will be justice for that which is stolen.
- Location
- Hollister
[X] Do nothing (Other options for stability increase in main phase)
[X] [Main] War Mission: Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Harmony
[X] [Secondary] Sacred Warriors
[X] [Main] War Mission: Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Harmony
[X] [Secondary] Sacred Warriors
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's basically a police action, and yes it is not particularly nice, but because of the conjunction of Harmony and Sacred War it can be used far more than it could otherwise, and Protective Justice still allows it in a "Well, they shouldn't have been doing bad things" sort of way. While more sophisticated than Eye for an Eye or vendetta theories of justice, Protective Justice is still relatively primitive in how it views the meting out of punishment. Physical disfigurement of rule breakers is still totally allowed, and even encouraged.
- Location
- Austria
If it were so, wouldn't it benefit from Justice?
Like, the difference between punishing greedy chiefs and crackdown on any and all dissenters can be kinda small, and description is (deliberately?) vague on this account.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Do nothing (Other options for stability increase in main phase)
[X] [Main] Sacred Warriors
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Harmony
[X] [Secondary] War Mission: Dead Priests
[X] [Main] Sacred Warriors
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Harmony
[X] [Secondary] War Mission: Dead Priests
Anyway, I don't believe we should be taking war carts. We're already the only polity that either has the design for them, and the resources to build them so our advantage there is secured. The same is true for Sacred Warriors as we already have a martial edge particularly given the terrain we'd be fighting on. However, our logistics and road network towards the lowlands area isn't yet so I really feel that action takes precedent especially considering the war action is likely to take a generation to resolve.
The New Trail action also has the benefit of improving trade connections with our trading partners providing us economy, in addition to benefiting our military. The distance is also considerable if our travel to the Spirit Talkers is any indication, we're talking a journey of months at the minimum so the road would cut down that time noticeably. Finally considering we're going to war and eventually want to settle the lowlands, and we may conquer settlements directly if we do well enough, the road helps here too.
[X] Do nothing (Other options for stability increase in main phase)
[X] [Main] War Mission - Dead Priests
[X] [Secondary] Restoration of Harmony
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
Do nothing and Restoration for the same reason as others, a main action on the war mission as we'd be risking more but we have lot's of advantages from collective action, war carts, bows, and the new spiritual trait so we can exploit the opportunity to the fullest. New Trails for the above reasons.
@Academia Nut - given voters tend to be rather conservative if you know what you currently have but not what you may get, could you elaborate on those new government forms and the benefits/cons of them?
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