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Paths of Civilization

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I just realized that it is possible to found a colony in greenshore while keeping our trading post there (by using a main instead of a secondaey action). I think that we might want to do so as soon as the climate instability ends and either the metal workers or tin tribes try to claim the area.

Edit: clarification
 
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I wonder who the Negaverse Xoh remnants will play as and how long it will be between the fall and the start of the Xoh remnants Civ game, probably 500 years.
 
Rakuhn said:
I just realized that it is possible to foubd a colony in greenshore while keeping our trading post there. I think that we might want to do so as soon as the climate instability ends and either the metal workers or tin tribes try to claim the area.
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No, I think that would transition the trading post to a colony, not let us keep the TP.
 
Killer_Whale said:
Either way, we need to put a trading post near the Trelli first,
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You know, they might not even mind. I mean, judging by the number of our trade dominances, they wouldn't want to antagonise us much; we're moving huge amounts of commerce through their hub. I don't know that they'd go so far as to actually protect the post if threatened, but we're almost certainly a valued and welcome customer.

Can someone refresh my memory on what a new trading post gives us? I know the mature one gives 1 Diplomacy per turn, and creates saltern demand that boosts Wealth generation.
 
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[X] [Alchemy] Full support (Main Study Alchemy, Stallions very pleased)
[X] [WC] Send many experts to work at the problem (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, +2 Wealth, +2Wealth next turn)
[X] [React] Main New Trails
 
DragonParadox said:
Maybe our new vassals.
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AF: okay, guys, you're going to be taking control of the minor villages to the northwest.
Thread: laaaame. Those guys are barely worth the spit to put on their grave! We made sure they were!
AF: well, under their new overlord, the Valley People, they're actually improving.
Thread: wut? I thought you said the soil was garbage up there?
AF: the soil was garbage up in the Valley, too. But the Valley People figured out how to make anthrosol fertilizers as well as terrace farming.
Thread: .... GG lowlands.
 
ThrawnCA said:
You know, they might not even mind. I mean, judging by the number of our trade dominances, they wouldn't want to antagonise us much; we're moving huge amounts of commerce through their hub. I don't know that they'd go so far as to actually protect the post if threatened, but we're almost certainly a valued and welcome customer.

Can someone refresh my memory on what a new trading post gives us? I know the mature one gives 1 Diplomacy per turn.
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Boosts our trade power in the goods the target area produce.

Like if we put it north we would have trade power of Amber and Furs boosted. And when we went to the MW we had their goods, tin and... gold I think, boosted in power in our part of the trade table.

They also "pair up" so to speak with salterns.
 
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ThrawnCA said:
On the whole, I think any kind of fusion with CA would likely be a good thing. Either making our refugee drain more efficient (ie less Stability loss), or doing other useful things at the same time. Anything that allows more and better HALPING would be among the best things we could pick up.
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Oh certainly, but the special actions and mechanics they grant would likely be gone.

Fun thing about Wildcat Prospecting is that it contains one of the roots of Cosmopolitan Acceptance to begin with, as the concepts, stripped down goes:
-Sharing Circle - Be nice to people and you can learn from them
-Pioneering Spirit - Take advantage of opportunities as they come

-Sharing Circle + Pioneering Spirit -> Land of Opportunity - You can help people when they are in trouble and they will come to you.

-Greater Good - The few can make sacrifices for the many

-Land of Opportunity + Greater Good -> Cosmopolitan Acceptance - You can suffer a little inconvenience to help people get used to your culture. Foreign ideas are not bad

Based on precedent, I think the Sharing Circle line is less about taking huge amounts of refugees to evolve(considering we've taken really huge refugee intakes to no effect) and more of assimilating the values of other cultures to enrich it.

Traits are relatively easier to figure out if you break them down to their base concept
ThrawnCA said:
Hmm.

True, the idea of sacrifice may be better as an additive than in isolation. And we have limited slots.

I wonder whether it could fuse with CA a second time, to further drop the Stability cost? If refugee intakes became significantly more efficient, they could actually compete mechanically with other methods of gaining Econ, besides all their side benefits.
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I doubt it because it'd turn into breaking the game though. The only reason it isn't ridiculous is the sheer cost
ThrawnCA said:
Are these diminishing returns based on the fact that our lands are already fertilised? Will it change if we integrate more territory that really needs black soil, like our vassal?
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Seems like the value increases based on the worst soil available?
Every settlement makes some, so boosting Black Soil is making a lot more per acre.
 
veekie said:
Seems like the value increases based on the worst soil available?
Every settlement makes some, so boosting Black Soil is making a lot more per acre.
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There's also the fact that in our core lands we have direct update mention of Black Soil up to a man's hip.

Which is kinda ridiculous.
 
BungieONI said:
Boosts our trade power in the goods the target area produce.
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So... we're more likely to reach dominance?

How does that fit with the description of the trading post action, which says it's "to generate Diplomacy"? Is that just outdated and pre-currency? Or is it just a reference to the mature state?

And do salterns have to be close to trading posts to pair up?
 
veekie said:
Based on precedent, I think the Sharing Circle line is less about taking huge amounts of refugees to evolve(considering we've taken really huge refugee intakes to no effect) and more of assimilating the values of other cultures to enrich it.
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Hey, what if CA fused with a religious trait and gave us the ability to send some kind of proselyting missions to trigger migrant waves, instead of just waiting for Stability drops?

Might need more Religious Authority to be effective. But it turns out RA is important for dealing with outsiders anyway.
 
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BungieONI said:
Boosts our trade power in the goods the target area produce.

Like if we put it north we would have trade power of Amber and Furs boosted.
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We currently don't even know where those are coming from. Those good are reaching us, but from far away, outside our current map. I mean, if we go by RL, amber obviously comes from the not!Baltic Sea, especially not!Prussia, so we still have all of not!Russia in between. And furs come from somewhere north, the taiga - not!Novgorod, maybe. So again, all of not!Russia in between.

All we can do is to set up a trade post at the route of those goods, and that would probably mean at a river... i.e. in the midst of the steppe. Surrounded by nomads.
 
Susano said:
We currently don't even know where those are coming from. Those good are reaching us, but from far away, outside our current map. I mean, if we go by RL, amber obviously comes from the not!Baltic Sea, especially not!Prussia, so we still have all of not!Russia in between. And furs come from somewhere north, the taiga - not!Novgorod, maybe. So again, all of not!Russia in between.

All we can do is to set up a trade post at the route of those goods, and that would probably mean at a river... i.e. in the midst of the steppe. Surrounded by nomads.
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Not quite, we would be setting the trade post at "the place with the big trees."
 
ThrawnCA said:
So... we're more likely to reach dominance?

How does that fit with the description of the trading post action, which says it's "to generate Diplomacy"? Is that just outdated and pre-currency? Or is it just a reference to the mature state?

And do salterns have to be close to trading posts to pair up?
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Pretty much. I'm not sure but, say we didn't do anything with the Gems and stayed at Significant, and then put a Trade Post near Trelli I think what would happen is that we would jump to Leading as we start to leech off the Trelli's own gem production.

I think it's a reference to the mature trade post.

Nope, they do not have to be close at all. Greenshore is supporting the Northshore Saltern if I recall correctly and well, those are across the sea.


Susano said:
We currently don't even know where those are coming from. Those good are reaching us, but from far away, outside our current map. I mean, if we go by RL, amber obviously comes from the not!Baltic Sea, especially not!Prussia, so we still have all of not!Russia in between. And furs come from somewhere north, the taiga - not!Novgorod, maybe. So again, all of not!Russia in between.

All we can do is to set up a trade post at the route of those goods, and that would probably mean at a river... i.e. in the midst of the steppe. Surrounded by nomads.
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They are known only, so none of them are reaching our markets sadly. Too far I think.

And it's all from the same region since the fur comes from the people living there and the amber from the same area.

Academia Nut said:
There were hills among the plains, and further north the winters grew bitterly cold beyond imagining, killing several on the expedition and forcing their eventual turn back, but they had also reported the discovery of towering forests almost beyond imagining - trees that made those of the People look like bushes, covered in not leaves but spiky green needles. While they knew not if the People could live there - there were thinly scattered tribes to be sure, but the winters were so harsh they knew not if one could grow enough food there - but such forests were such marvels that it might be an idea to settle there. What friendly contact they had also allowed them to bring back new luxuries, like rich furs from animals adapted to the cold, and brilliant, translucent yellow rocks.
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TP would go in the Land of Fuck Big Trees.
 
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BungieONI said:
And it's all from the same region since the fur comes from the people living there and the amber from the same area.
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I wonder if we could get some seeds and grow pine trees at home... fast growing, easy to work, and comparatively light. Could be useful for boats, not sure about charcoal.
 
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ThrawnCA said:
I don't think you have to have a cold climate for pine trees. There are big plantations of them within half an hour of my house, and I live in an area that never ever sees snow.
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Yes, but they're less likely to choke out other life as an invasive species up there
 
I think that my ideal order of actions is:
1. Get a temporary peace in the Lowlands/Finish the Palace
2. Found a mercenary company
3. Claim the Cataracts
4. Found a trading post near the Trelli
5. Found a colony in Greenshore (or change tradepost to colony)
6. Census

I think that items 3, 4, and 5 have a very small window of opportunity, and will no longer be available within a few turns of climate instability ending. The Trelli, Highland Kingdom, Metal Workers, and Tin Tribes will likely all be prioritizing new settlements and will gobble up whatever land is available.

If the climate instability ends before we finish the palace, what do we want to prioritize?
 
DocMatoi said:
Yes, but they're less likely to choke out other life as an invasive species up there
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They tend to do that sadly. *looks at the pines about 100 miles west of where they live, dubiously*


Rakuhn said:
I think that my ideal order of actions is:
1. Get a temporary peace in the Lowlands/Finish the Palace
2. Found a mercenary company
3. Claim the Cataracts
4. Found a trading post near the Trelli
5. Found a colony in Greenshore (or change tradepost to colony)
6. Census

I think that items 3, 4, and 5 have a very small window of opportunity, and will no longer be available within a few turns of climate instability ending. The Trelli, Highland Kingdom, Metal Workers, and Tin Tribes will likely all be prioritizing new settlements and will gobble up whatever land is available.

If the climate instability ends before we finish the palace, what do we want to prioritize?
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Cataracts for safest dam location as well as eventual cataract bypass canal for ease of lowlands and south logistics. That is my immediate first thought. Alongside finishing the Palace of course.


E: Actually I wonder if the Swamp People may start attacking the HK. That'd be nice, delays them getting back to the cataract.
 
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[X] [Alchemy] Full support (Main Study Alchemy, Stallions very pleased)
[X] [WC] Send many experts to work at the problem (-3 Art, -2 Centralization, +2 Wealth, +2 Wealth next turn)
[X] [React] Main New Trails

I hope the drop to centralization 2 temporarily and to 3 for next turn doesn't make us even more fragile, but being able to get Gems to dominant and thus 6 dominant goods (!!!) is worth it. When trade disruption ends we'll be at +3 wealth a turn even with paying for our mercenaries, enough to tank the wealth drip and buy us time.
 
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