Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
BungieONI said:
Coolio.

That's convenient.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's possible the discount isn't that good, but at the very least we'll save 1 net econ, since we spent one and the minimum discount is likely 1 econ cheaper for both. Most likely is, i think, 1 econ/1 art, same as current cost, but still 4 progress for balance reasons. That said, since the progress is usually equal in number to the total resource cost of extended projects, it would make sense for it to be just 1 econ/1 art/2 progress, or a single secondary action, which would be amazing and very easy to fit in to our plans; among other things if it really is that cheap i could see a midturn reaction choice being "finish the planned palace extensions", since together they'd be a main action.
 
Abby Normal said:
Just a heads up, AN updated the civ sheet a few minutes ago, just two changes:

This is the extra 1 econ cost of having the great hall expansion and gardens semi-prepared for, so that's already calculated, and is only 1 econ total, not 1 each, which is good; especially if those two being easier to upgrade later goes as far as making each a single secondary action extended project for 1 econ, 1 art...

Also this got corrected from last turn :)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Just in time, I'd updated the history sheet. Looks like ya'll are in for a double infographic. :D

Here's the first one to tide you over till the update. Refugee intake since we got stats on how much we were taking:
 
Abby Normal said:
It's possible the discount isn't that good, but at the very least we'll save 1 net econ, since we spent one and the minimum discount is likely 1 econ cheaper for both. Most likely is, i think, 1 econ/1 art, same as current cost, but still 4 progress for balance reasons. That said, since the progress is usually equal in number to the total resource cost of extended projects, it would make sense for it to be just 1 econ/1 art/2 progress, or a single secondary action, which would be amazing and very easy to fit in to our plans; among other things if it really is that cheap i could see a midturn reaction choice being "finish the planned palace extensions", since together they'd be a main action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That would make me sad for balance reasons, since it means that it would be cheaper to make the extension in the future than it is to make it now.
 
Abby Normal said:
It's possible the discount isn't that good, but at the very least we'll save 1 net econ, since we spent one and the minimum discount is likely 1 econ cheaper for both. Most likely is, i think, 1 econ/1 art, same as current cost, but still 4 progress for balance reasons. That said, since the progress is usually equal in number to the total resource cost of extended projects, it would make sense for it to be just 1 econ/1 art/2 progress, or a single secondary action, which would be amazing and very easy to fit in to our plans; among other things if it really is that cheap i could see a midturn reaction choice being "finish the planned palace extensions", since together they'd be a main action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We will have to see.

Time for me to dust off my old predictive muscles and follow @VoidZero:

Navel gazing!

The Horde of Nomads is friendly! They want our women, for they are the fairest of them all!

The Thunder Horse suddenly cease to exist as they take a bad hit when low on Econ from war and bad mid turns.

The HK try to butter us up as their Negaverse goes into a tizzy trying to figure out our game.

The Thunder Speakers stay mum. Are they pulling an early us?

We hear the Swamp People have resettled in Xohyr.

And the Metal Workers cease to exist as any thing remotely relevant.


pblur said:
Just in time, I'd updated the history sheet. Looks like ya'll are in for a double infographic. :D

Here's the first one to tide you over till the update. Refugee intake since we got stats on how much we were taking:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ooh coolio.

Can you map the peaks and that major trough between 30 and 40 to updates so we get a bit of a timeline?


PrimalShadow said:
That would make me sad for balance reasons, since it means that it would be cheaper to make the extension in the future than it is to make it now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well note it's for two expansions, that we are explicitly making space for in story with the intent to build them later.

I don't see the problem, beyond not getting them in a few turns when we finish the palace.
 
Last edited:
PrimalShadow said:
That would make me sad for balance reasons, since it means that it would be cheaper to make the extension in the future than it is to make it now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The same is true of aqueducts, and in both cases it's only thanks to our Rush Builders legacy; as is, a "normal" civ with the palace would have any future annexes cost double in both resources and time, since without Rush Builders you have to take 2 main actions to get 4 progress on an extended project. Then, in turn, if my guess is right, a normal civ having semi-prepared annexes would make them cost the same in the future as in the original plan; 1 art, 1 econ, 1 main action.
 
BungieONI said:
Ooh coolio.

Can you map the peaks and that major trough between 30 and 40 to updates so we get a bit of a timeline?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'll try. Don't have actual excel here, so it'll be a poor paint job. (Also, the turn numbers are on the history sheet if anyone wants to check before I get it all done.)

Also, couldn't decide how I preferred to display that data, so here's a cumulative graph of stability spent on refugees. The graph ends on the current turn.



Edit for clarity: This is expected value; if it's one and a chance, I put it in as 1.5 because that's a direct metric of how many refugees we took in (regardless of whether it happened to be 1 or 2 stability in the end.)
 
Last edited:
BungieONI said:
Well note it's for two expansions, that we are explicitly making space for in story with the intent to build them later.

I don't see the problem, beyond not getting them in a few turns when we finish the palace.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Abby Normal said:
The same is true of aqueducts, and in both cases it's only thanks to our Rush Builders legacy; as is, a "normal" civ with the palace would have any future annexes cost double in both resources and time, since without Rush Builders you have to take 2 main actions to get 4 progress on an extended project.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Even if we explicitly make space for them, it should still be at least as cheap to build them now as it is to build them in the future. I'm perfectly fine with them costing 1 Econ/Art; it is the part about them going from a Main to a Secondary that I'm not fond of.


Think about it this way. If we finish the palace and immediately add these "reserved" annexes, we shouldn't come out ahead compared to just building them immediately; that doesn't make sense.
 
Reader of all said:
So I guess we should take more than minimum refugees this turn if we want to do anything but expand econ.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If we are switching to Megaproject Support, our provinces will expand econ for us, since it is a resource we need for the megaproject. They might do it even if they stay on offensive policy (they did last turn), though I wouldn't count on it.

Also, taking more refugees is NOT the way to dodge econ troubles. Sure, it gets us extra econ, but it also puts us down to either -1 or 0 stability, and that is with just the minimal refugee action. Then we have to spend our time restoring stability, which is considerably harder than just taking expand econ actions.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Even if we explicitly make space for them, it should still be at least as cheap to build them now as it is to build them in the future. I'm perfectly fine with them costing 1 Econ/Art; it is the part about them going from a Main to a Secondary that I'm not fond of.


Think about it this way. If we finish the palace and immediately add these "reserved" annexes, we shouldn't come out ahead compared to just building them immediately; that doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's why i'm not totally confident in it. But again, the turn after the first garden/aqueduct was done, we could have made another aqueduct for...i think that was before we got widespread iron and lowered prices, but still only like 3 secondaries. Rush Builder's changes a lot of things to make them easier once we have the general idea down. Because again, its only because of that legacy that the annexes don't go from 1 main to 2 mains the instant the main palace is done. Without that legacy, and if my guess holds true, we'd have paid an econ now to lock in the price (in time and cost) of two annexes...and considering that benefit comes from how the voting shook out, something we couldn't have really predicted and couldn't have really gamed, i think its reasonable to gain a decent boon out of it, thanks to having previously taken a lot of work to get a megaproject done in one turn.


...also i don't think AN has confirmed for sure that the extended project will cost 4 progress; that's my guess based on the cost, and i think its a very solid guess.
 
pblur said:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thank you!

So those turns between 30ish and 43ish were during Magwyna's reign and went all the way up until Quiet Tensions, so us getting done beating the shit out of nomads with iron and a bit beyond.

It's funny how our deepest pick so far was when we were kinda in a shit situation with the renewal happening, but we tanked it with Restoration policy.
 
Last edited:
Abby Normal said:
That's why i'm not totally confident in it. But again, the turn after the first garden/aqueduct was done, we could have made another aqueduct for...i think that was before we got widespread iron and lowered prices, but still only like 3 secondaries.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, but it wasn't like we could have built the second aqueduct as part of the megaproject itself. It is reasonable for future spinoffs of a megaproject to be less expensive than said megaprojects; I just don't like optional parts of the magaproject to be cheaper after it is finished. At least unless they give lesser benefits later, which would be disappointing in whole different way.
Abby Normal said:
...also i don't think AN has confirmed for sure that the extended project will cost 4 progress; that's my guess based on the cost, and i think its a very solid guess.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If it costs 8 and the things we've reserved space for cost 4, that would be sad in a third way.
 
BungieONI said:
Thank you!

So those turns between 30ish and 43ish were during Magwyna's reign and went all the way up until Quiet Tensions, so us getting done beating the shit out of nomads with iron.

It's funny how our deepest pick so far was when we were kinda in a shit situation with the renewal happening, but we tanked it with Restoration policy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah. Half of all the refugees we've ever taken were in the last 7 turns, while we're struggling with admin issues, multi-front wars and climate damage.

Edit: Also, this is why CA REALLY isn't at risk...
 
BungieONI said:
The Xoh is feasible we just have to occupy the Thunder Horse and Swamp People for long enough, and then when they come back we've basically preformed necromancy. I figure you'd like that you fuzzy abomination.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It is a mortgage (pledge to the death in French) I'm selling. So it makes sense for me to ensure clientele are able to pay it off. :p
 
VoidZero said:
It is a mortgage (pledge to the death in French) I'm selling. So it makes sense for me to ensure clientele are able to pay it off. :p
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course.

*Blam*

pblur said:
Yeah. Half of all the refugees we've ever taken were in the last 7 turns, while we're struggling with admin issues, multi-front wars and climate damage.

Edit: Also, this is why CA REALLY isn't at risk...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Reminds me of the very very very first drought we had and "Not spit!".

Evolution soon?
 
PrimalShadow said:
If we are switching to Megaproject Support, our provinces will expand econ for us, since it is a resource we need for the megaproject. They might do it even if they stay on offensive policy (they did last turn), though I wouldn't count on it.

Also, taking more refugees is NOT the way to dodge econ troubles. Sure, it gets us extra econ, but it also puts us down to either -1 or 0 stability, and that is with just the minimal refugee action. Then we have to spend our time restoring stability, which is considerably harder than just taking expand econ actions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But there is a chance that we will take stab damage anyway we took the minimum refugee action with the hope of avoiding stab but we still took damage anyway so taking guaranteed stab damage in exchange for more econ would have been more efficient than had we taken the minimum refugee action.
 
Reader of all said:
But there is a chance that we will take stab damage anyway we took the minimum refugee action with the hope of avoiding stab but we still took damage anyway so taking guaranteed stab damage in exchange for more econ would have been more efficient than had we taken the minimum refugee action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But the second option had a chance of TWO stability cost...
 
All this talk of refugees does raise the question @Academia Nut how are we population wise when compared with the surrounding polities? While we've come to accept that the steppe will be covered by a neverending tide of Nomads till doomsday the Highlanders seem to have gotten the shit kicked out of them between wars, population drop due to climate instability and refugees fleeing. The Lowland Minors seem to be holding up relatively well with our support and the Thunder Horse appear to not give a damn about the climate change effecting part of their land. The Swamp People have obviously increased their population but it still isn't clear how much and what amount of that is vassalized minors. Xoh is....well yeah. And it'd be interesting to know how the former Hat territories are doing after the collapse of all centralized authority.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top