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Paths of Civilization

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pblur said:
The point is it's a vote for EVERYTHING, which dilutes bandwagon effects.

My current thought is:
[] [Loc] Redshore

[] Shrine
[] Library
[] Library x2
[] Storehouse

It's quite tempting to add a shrine to that for a full temple. Full Temple + Full Library is probably a synergy.


Also, interestingly, Greenshore is building an aqueduct. I didn't know it could do that...
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Wait, I thought we agreed that the long-term advantages for putting it in redshore are negated by having to spend multiple turns preparing redshore as a true city?
 
Susano said:
The trees can tend to themselves. Or well, be tended to by the priests.

It's in Valleyhome all the issues are which the king and his/her administration need to take care of!


Because we can't go chasing shinies while we have a tax crisis going on draining our wealth.


My vote would be... if there were one now... which there isn't

[] [Loc] Valleyhome
[][Annex]Library
[][Annex]Library x2
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What, Why do you say there's no vote?
 
@Academia Nut
  1. How are travel conditions between Redshore and Valleyhome?
  2. What is the travel time between these two places?
  3. How expansive is our riverine transport?
 
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X] [Annex] Shrine
[X] [Annex] Library
[X] [Annex] Library x2

Minimum commitment, no insane relocation of the center of power in the middle of an admin crises that could easily break us.
 
[X] [Loc] Redshore
Redshore, while not quite as grand or urban as the larger Valleyhome or Sacred Forest, had always been a major center of trade and industry, and given its access to the sea was probably the easiest for the majority of provinces to get delegates to.
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[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Great Hall Expansion x2
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
[X] Storehouse x2

Arsenal, Fortifications, and Gardens can be improved on later, this is a hardcore administrative-focus build.
 
tryrar said:
Wait, I thought we agreed that the long-term advantages for putting it in redshore are negated by having to spend multiple turns preparing redshore as a true city?
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No, I really don't like the idea of putting it somewhere that requires land transport to the sea. I think that's really going to screw us later. ;)
 
Susano said:
The trees can tend to themselves. Or well, be tended to by the priests.

It's in Valleyhome all the issues are which the king and his/her administration need to take care of!


Because we can't go chasing shinies while we have a tax crisis going on draining our wealth.


My vote would be... if there were one now... which there isn't

[] [Loc] Valleyhome
[][Annex]Library
[][Annex]Library x2
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....yes, there is a vote going on. AN wouldn't have put the options there if there wasn't a vote. And if this is some weird tactic to try to get a moratorium on voting, that's ship's already sailed dude.
 
Godwinson said:
[X] [Loc] Redshore


[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Great Hall Expansion x2
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
[X] Storehouse x2

Arsenal, Fortifications, and Gardens can be improved on later, this is a hardcore administrative-focus build.
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Why people are gunning for max. We got the Law and the census to take care of!
 
Susano said:
As far as I can see AN hasn't called one? He has just said we'd need to decide on the location (probably next update, when the Build Palace action goes into effect) and has told us what possible annexes there are "to water our mouths".
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I think you missed the update a page ago

:D
 
Academia Nut said:
First, the Great Hall could be extended, made larger to accommodate more visitors, and to also appear more impressive to outsiders. Some proposals suggested making it big enough to serve as something of a community focus point, where a significant fraction of the populace could attend during major festivals, although that was probably overkill.
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1. Big enough Great Hall can be a community focus point. Guys, does anybody want to build a Roman Forum? That's what it looks like.

Academia Nut said:
Second was extending out the shrine, making it into a proper temple to the gods, probably with Mathulmyn as the patron of the temple itself and Fythhagyna and Crow included somewhere in a prominent but not central role. Further proposals would extend it out further and increase the amount of religious authority of the palace, and thus the king. It would also increase the king's access to skilled advisors on spiritual matters.
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2. Big shrine transforms into the temple of Mathulmyn aka "one to pray to to stop king from being a moron". Bigger one probably moves use closer to king being a religious authority.

Academia Nut said:
Third, and almost certainly included somewhere, was a library annex. While the smallest proposals just made it a general administrative storage area and reference library for the king and advisors, larger proposals expanded it out to be at least as large as the library already crammed into Valleyhome or as part of the temple in Sacred Valley, with a few proposals where the palace was more library than palace! Given all the writing the government generated, a library was probably a necessity, and the bigger the more important records could be kept on immediate hand for the king to have easy access to.
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3. Libraries increase admin capacity; bigger ones make governing easier because ~records on hand~. Also, clerks love cannons libraries.

Academia Nut said:
Fourth was the proposal for garden complexes. These were frequently courtyards, often extensions of the Great Hall, and they were there for the purposes of beauty, health, and spiritual strength. There would probably be a few small gardens in quiet spots no matter the design chosen, but these proposals were significant efforts. Many priests proposed that gardens be included in order to ensure that the palace remained connected to nature, and also to ensure an at-hand supply of important plants that could be grown there.
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4. Gardens emphasize connection to nature (?) and ensure supply of plants; most likely health bonuses for those living there, plus destress and the like.

Academia Nut said:
Fifth were storehouses. The king's residence was already close to a number of central storehouses and granaries so it made sense, and there would of course be internal stores for the palace's consumption, but these proposals were for major areas to do nothing but store critical goods and administer their collection and distribution. These would certainly help with administration purposes, and help the city if it were ever cut off from food supplies by disaster or war.
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5. Storehouse are helpful for administration and are going to also be emergency storage in case of shit going down. Also, administering bulk storage and distribution is probably a path to some innovations, maybe Inca-like grain storages everywhere?

Academia Nut said:
Sixth were proposals to have artisans brought in to live within the palace, producing warrior goods. This would ensure that the king would have the best equipment available and that the best warriors would always come to the palace for their gear, rather than potentially going elsewhere. Many of the association members also suggested that having such an annex would also help tie the king more closely to the artisans by having them live in association with each other
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6. Arsenal bonuses mean best bling for the king's retinue and king having closer ties to artisans. Bigger investment probably makes us more appealing to guilds and give even more bling exclusive to king and his personal guys.

Academia Nut said:
Finally, there were walls. While there would have to be some degree of separation between the palace and the rest of the city for the purposes of security, some proposals went further, suggesting walls like those of city fortifications, or even walls of greater height and thickness than in any city yet built! While there was certainly a point of diminishing returns, especially if the walls effectively cut the palace off from the city and did not include extensive internal stores or its own arsenal, perhaps some additional defences would help against less spectacular threats than armies.
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7. Walls are walls, although there is probably a potential for innovations there too.
 
Honestly, if you want to develop paper...

[] Library
[] Library x2
[] Library x3
[] Library x4
[] Library x5
[] Library x6
[] Library x7
[] Library x8

SOMEONE is going to figure it out!

Edit: And that's if we don't get the dewey decimal system 4 millenia early...
 
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10ebbor10 said:
To prevent bandwagoning, let's start with immediatly voting without discussion.
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pblur's vote was "everything." I think the idea is that a vote for everything makes bandwagons slightly less likely to start, because everything has some "support."

If it works, I expect it works better with "first past the post" votes. For the current Annexes vote, meanwhile...

Let's keep in mind that we need to pay for all of these extras, hey? More isn't always better.

As to the shrine vote - we didn't give them their own city, so the priests get a shrine in the Palace. Not negotiating on this. Doesn't need to be a large one, though.

Library is vital, given our style of government. Honestly I'd like to at least 2x it, if we can afford it.

Arsenal and Fortifications, hrm. Just what threats do we expect our Palace to be facing? Certainly rioting; what else? The proximity to artisans is nice, I guess, but keep in mind it's specifically the artisans who make weapons. This has implications.

Gardens I like, though I'm not sure how vital they are.

Storehouse reinforces the primary strength of Ymaryn government, our ability to support our people in times of crisis. This is something I certainly approve of.
 
Susano said:
Because we can't go chasing shinies while we have a tax crisis going on draining our wealth.
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Well, everyone else have chased shiny at least once before; so it's my turn. :3

Besides, i wanted a true palace that is more a city by itself instead of a big unfortified government building.
 
Please remember that while these things are exciting, we can always get them later.

When arguing, do not just mention the wondrous synergy. Include rough estimates of how much it would cost to demonstrate why it is clearly important to do now.
 
I'd like to note that just because we have 8 slots right now, doesn't mean we should use 8 slots. Keep in mind that each annex increase the time to build the palace by one action, so we need to strike a balance between what we want and what we can build in a timely fashion, which is why I went with just 2x library and a shrine.
 
The main purpose of the Palace as of right now is administrative and cultural. Fortifications and fancy gardens can wait for later. Because of that: I am voting for the following:

[X] [Loc] Valleyhome

[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
 
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pbluekan said:
  • How are travel conditions between Redshore and Valleyhome?
  • What is the travel time between these two places?
  • How expansive is our riverine transport?
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1. Fairly quick, most people take about a week at a fairly sedate pace, but horse couriers on a chain can bring important information in about a day if they really push it.
2. If not for the cataracts, Valleyhome could have major riverine transport with the lowlands. As it is, most riverine transport is from Sacred Forest out through Redshore to literally everywhere else.

Umi-san said:
What impact will subordinate True Cities have?
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The subordinates will now have their own True Cities to refund to them. Incorporating them will lead to you gaining those cities, but otherwise the subordinates will take care of things. This does decrease their dependence
 
Okay, so.

I think the essentials are a shrine, two libraries, a garden, a storehouse and an arsenal. Beyond that, I'm tempted to do a Great Hall extension and another storehouse. Fortifications are unnecessary because 1) we don't want to further separate our government from interaction with the governed and 2) if we're ever in a situation where we need them, we're fucked anyway.

I'd also want to build it at Redshore for both ease of transportation around our nation and because there's more room to do so thanks to Redshore not being a True City yet.
 
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