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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
 
Sivantic said:
Yes, the King can do whatever he wants and the Blackbirds answer only to him. We do not want that to fall under anyone else.

No, the King does not warrant any suspicions, since he does what we want. The checks and balances are already built in with our oligarchs and advisory choosing who the heir is and they ensure that the average King is to everyone's benefit.

The only ones we don't control are the heroes and that is because they almost always know the situation better than us. This last nomad hero being the only exception because he is a frikkin nomad.
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The assertion "the King does not warrant any suspicions" sets off some alarm bells in my head. A system of checks and balances doesn't work if you deliberately ensure that one part of the system has no checks. And it's narratively worrying to realize how much we're depending on each leader, in whom has been invested near-absolute power and authority, to be a decent leader to everyone's benefit even though our selection process is pretty rigorous. Everyone remembers lucky-awful-hair-guy, right? If he'd gotten into the kingship then the lack of checks on the king's power would have been bad. Even as it is, most kings certainly abuse the unlimited power of the kingship to set things up so their families stay in power at the very least.
 
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So, if we want to improve our centralization tolerance, other than make Sacred Forest a Free City, I think distribute land is pretty much the only option we have on hand that can do that.
 
ThrawnCA said:
What if strengthening others' influence meant that we had more information about what's happening and thus more options to choose from, or more complete knowledge of those options? As it stands, we frequently take a shot in the dark regarding what different courses of action will actually do. If we had more input from the artisans, the priests, the farmers, the soldiers, we might be better able to act.
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Advisors

You're talking about our advisors :V

We already have those. You want to know more, you ask them. AN has happily answered everytime.
VoidZero said:
Why would they be a rival? Our values are identical and they are the mods for our civilization with heavy influence on BB and War Priest. So it is in our interest for them to grow and counterbalance the current giant mess of government.

No one listens to the weak and powerless, so them being more powerful serves positive purpose.
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They would be a contesting power because they have the only martial forces that can be used on our own people. They are our mods because they are neutral and do not hold political power as our High Chiefs do. Because we do not want anyone other than the King to have access to our Blackbirds.

You want them to be more influential, fine. But do not give them direct control over actions. Mixing Religion and State rarely ends well.
Glassware said:
The assertion "the King does not warrant any suspicions" sets off some alarm bells in my head. A system of checks and balances doesn't work if you deliberately ensure that one part of the system has no checks. And it's narratively worrying to realize how much we're depending on each leader, in whom has been invested near-absolute power and authority, to be a decent leader to everyone's benefit even though our selection process is pretty rigorous. Everyone remembers lucky-awful-hair-guy, right? If he'd gotten into the kingship then the lack of checks on the king's power would have been bad.
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In real life, yes, definitely. There should always be checks and balances to ensure that the King does what is good for the people.

This however is a game, we decide what our projects are and we are the ones that are the final say on major decisions. Taking away that control is likely to be taken badly. We do not worry much about heroes as they are usually voted in and take over only when they have heroic admin and thus more awareness of in game information. Here, there would not be such a guarantee.

There is also the fact that our lower powers are the ones that usually pick the king and the average king is to eveyone's benefit. I do not see the need to rock the boat.
 
Sivantic said:
n real life, yes, definitely. There should always be checks and balances to ensure that the King does what is good for the people.

This however is a game, we decide what our projects are and we are the ones that are the final say on major decisions. Taking away that control is likely to be taken badly. We do not worry much about heroes as they are usually voted in and take over only when they have heroic admin and thus more awareness of in game information. Here, there would not be such a guarantee.

There is also the fact that our lower powers are the ones that usually pick the king and the average king is to eveyone's benefit. I do not see the need to rock the boat.
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Okay, but remember that we're not just advising the ruler here but shaping a culture. We're creating a system of government and a people that lack checks and balances on the power of their ruler. What happens when we, whatever "we" are, get taken away or aren't able to act on the king? We've had points where we've controlled other characters before, after all; both Rulwyna's were protagonists without holding the throne. The nature of the game has shifted before, and I worry that if it shifts again and we lose the ability to control the king we'll regret not establishing more checks on a king's power to stop them from hurting the people.
 
Tentative cover art idea:

The evolution of the Blackbirds, from stealthy crow masked ninjas to modern day special force commandos(assuming the Ymaryn lasts that long).
 
Glassware said:
Okay, but remember that we're not just advising the ruler here but shaping a culture. We're creating a system of government and a people that lack checks and balances on the power of their ruler. What happens when we, whatever "we" are, get taken away or aren't able to act on the king? We've had points where we've controlled other characters before, after all; both Rulwyna's were protagonists without holding the throne. The nature of the game has shifted before, and I worry that if it shifts again and we lose the ability to control the king we'll regret not establishing more checks on a king's power to stop them from hurting the people.
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I've always considered us the Collective Unconscious of the Ymaryn, we are basically the winds that blow through them, the Invisible Hand of history manipulating the timeline. It's a really weird half in and half out existence, and in some ways we play the entire Ymaryn and in some ways we do not.

I agree with the checks and balances though, because in my understanding such balanced systems are stable.
 
I thought out oligarchs assassinating untenable heirs and kings were our checks and balances :p
 
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Glassware said:
Okay, but remember that we're not just advising the ruler here but shaping a culture. We're creating a system of government and a people that lack checks and balances on the power of their ruler. What happens when we, whatever "we" are, get taken away or aren't able to act on the king? We've had points where we've controlled other characters before, after all; both Rulwyna's were protagonists without holding the throne. The nature of the game has shifted before, and I worry that if it shifts again and we lose the ability to control the king we'll regret not establishing more checks on a king's power to stop them from hurting the people.
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That I can agree with. We should always take paths that ensure that a King is chosen for everyone's benefit with the best qualifications.

Giving the priesthood power separate from the State however, is not the route toward that.
Kiba said:
Tentative cover art idea:

The evolution of the Blackbirds, from stealthy crow masked ninjas to modern day special force commandos(assuming the Ymaryn lasts that long).
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Ideas are a dime a dozen. Find a willing artist first.
 
BungieONI said:
I've always considered us the Collective Unconscious of the Ymaryn, we are basically the winds that blow through them, the Invisible Hand of history manipulating the timeline. It's a really weird half in and half out existence, and in some ways we play the entire Ymaryn and in some ways we do not.

I agree with the checks and balances though, because in my understanding such balanced systems are stable.
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I would be fine with this being a surprise persona/smt quest.

Very fine.
 
BungieONI said:
I was thinking the Akashic Records or the ROOT of All Things from Kara no Kyoukai but those work too.
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Collective Unconscious is, like all things Jungian, rather evocative of Persona for me and vice versa. Persona even mentions him as being one of the most powerful Persona users in history. The only acceptable option considering who Jung is.
 
Kiba said:
Hmm. FS/N crossover.

Instead of the characters summoning Earth heroes, they summon not!Earth heroes.
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Yep.

Gwygoytha would have been our Gilgamesh expy if she was remembered. But now she is a Forgotten Hero who became a Divine in the Twins Gwy and Goya.

Though Gygowyn would possibly become a more powerful Hero than Gilgamesh because she is the Mother of All. And that's really powerful since it is is said she has influence over all humans so all human heroes are under her power.

A lot of our heroes would be Caster or Ruler classes with the massive admin and mysticism bias we have had. And they would be fucking awesome at it too.

Imagine Super-Nerd-Bynwyn as a Caster.

Lilithium said:
Collective Unconscious is, like all things Jungian, rather evocative of Persona for me and vice versa. Persona even mentions him as being one of the most powerful Persona users in history. The only acceptable option considering who Jung is.
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I remember Crow being described as Jungian once. He's old. A god from a time before... well... everything. He's existed in some form since we were hunter gatherers becoming farmers and all the eras we have passed through since.
 
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I found something which may eventually become relevant, a series called Historical Models Summarised. They're examples of repeating patterns in history, it's variables changing in each case but more or less following along the same path. Here are the three videos in the series.



I wonder if something like this has happened to us. Maybe something to do with crisis (possibly environmental) and war?
 
random_npc said:
Gwygoytha would be both the best and worst servant. She would also make anyone strait laced who summoned her very uncomfortable

"I'm a married man!"
"oh good, that opens up possibilities."
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Gwygoytha also wouldn't be an eligible summon, as the Throne of Heroes only contains those still recognized by humanity. Rulwyna I or Rythulmyn are the first eligible heroes who could be summoned.
 
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