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Paths of Civilization

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Sivantic said:
Oh hey, AN proves me right. Voting Phygrif in will start an expansion into the Steppes to boost the importance of the Northern Provinces. Trying to expand into the Steppes is suicide. We cannot deal with an even bigger northern border with Nomads.
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'Conquer more barely viable land when the Stallions already have more land of low quality than is desirable' or, maybe- just fucking maybe- the King will leverage the engineering and developmental ability the Ymaryn are known for to Aqueduct the North considering AN has repeatedly mentioned that would drastically improve productivity where available and that we could make a fairly fertile region by aqueducts out from the Blackmouth delta.

Strengthening the North is a good thing if the King of the Ymaryn does it. Because of those aqueducts? That wealth and labor that's going into improving the quality of life in the North? That's happening because the South is supporting it as well because all of the People are contributing to improving it. #Symphony for Life. *drops the mike*

It's the North getting what they want without fighting for it and reaffirming the collective power of what happens when the Ymaryn work in Harmony.
 
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ctulhuslp said:
Agenda is a thing, but he most likely won't assume direct control, so stop demonizing him.


And in what world 'break power of oligarchy that ignores entire provinces via legitimate means' is a bad thing? IMO that's a rare opportunity to involve northeners in our political process which we should grab.
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We are the cause of them being ignored, not the oligarchy. Building more northern provinces isn't going to get them any less ignored than before.
Rakuhn said:
The Northern provinces also include stonepen and blackriver. An argument could be made that the nearly completed Redhill province also feels closer to the North than the south.

Furthermore: marches and colonies both try to fulfill their primary purpose first and foremost, even if it benefits the core more than themselves. Marches will build their military to defend the core, while colonies will expand and exploit resources. Neither of them are likely to be able to do megaprojects, and even extended projects may be outside of their permitted activities.
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Yes, we should do more for our northern provinces, but getting them to ignore us, isn't the way to do it.
 
[X] [King] Dythuwyn (+1 Stability, Sec Expand Econ + Sec Art Patronage)
[X] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[X] [Refugee] Take in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, different benefits if Hatvalley a colony)

Well, absolutely none of the options for King are any good, but I see Dythuwyn as the least bad.
 
Therealtahu said:
These candidates are all terribly flawed and I hate them all.


Pros: Excellent admin, dies quickly.
Cons: Supports the south by ruining the North. Potential for civil war.

Hahaha. Yeah, no. When a pro for a King is that he dies quickly, there's definitely a problem. This might even lead to a civil war with how badly the North may feel after this.


Pros: Lowers centralization. Might die early.
Cons: Explicitly allows bribery. Terrible stats.

This completely poisons Distribute Land as an action and opens up our Kings to bribery.


Pros: Brings the North closer and focuses on them. More territory.
Cons: War should not be the best way to ascend to the throne. How are we supposed to administrate all the territory we conquer? Outsider has too much of an easy path to Kingship with this precedent. Values don't match ours.

We're basically letting someone without our values take over our system. It's a terrible precedent.


Pros: Stability agenda helps if we choose Hatvalley Colony.
Neutral: Has potential but may be useless because of the council. Easily manipulated by the council.
Cons: What's meritocracy? Go hereditary! Precedent for female puppet leaders. Main Expand Econ is overkill if we're taking in 6-8 Econ's worth of people.

She has potential for the future, but the council may stifle that. We actually don't want [Main] Expand Econ if we take in as many people if we want. Dythuwyn is also on the council, but he may be moderated by the other members.


You've done a great job making every candidate terrible. I'd take a normal average king over any of these. I might even settle for below average.

One important question though. @Academia Nut Does absorbing people through Cosmopolitan Acceptance consume Econ Expansion slots?
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Yes it does if I remember correctly. I believe you can check Abby Normals Diff Checker posts.
 
Karugus said:
'Conquer more barely viable land when the Stallions already have more land of low quality than is desirable' or, maybe- just fucking maybe- the King will leverage the engineering and developmental ability the Ymaryn are known for to Aqueduct the North considering AN has repeatedly mentioned that would drastically improve productivity where available and that we could make a fairly fertile region by aqueducts out from the Blackmouth delta.

Strengthening the North is a good thing if the King of the Ymaryn does it. Because of those aqueducts? That wealth and labor that's going into improving the quality of life in the North? That's happening because the South is supporting it as well because all of the People are contributing to improving it. #Symphony for Life. *drops the mike*

It's the North getting what they want without fighting for it and reaffirming the collective power of what happens when the Ymaryn work in Harmony.
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Except if that had been his plan, his agenda would be Infrastructure, not Conquest.
 
Here's a quick render of the Coinage of Ymaryn.

"For a while clerks have been using the unit of the bwyll in accounting, which is generally the amount of grain or equivalent needed to feed a grown man for a day. The munbwyll and the sonbwyll are larger values, thirty and four hundred bwyll each, respectively. Every person is expected to need about one sonbwyll a year to keep themselves fed."




Any thoughts on the design?
 
BungieONI said:
Which suuuuucks. But hey it gives us time to finish the mega, since the update hinted at it being almost done and also start working on the North issue.
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Yes, hence while he's not my favorite...I can live with whatever damage he causes.
Same with Dythuwyn.
Motoko said:
It'd be great if you gave your thought on the situation. However it won't help the fact that at least 15 others who left a vote and no comment has severely influenced the thread.

Also! Someone give me an explanation on how Child + King = hereditary kings from now on. Where is the logic? One time isn't likely to drastically affect our Heir system that much people...
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The sole merit for the baby being elected is:
-Her mother was king
-Her grandfather was king

No achievements, no skills.
Killer_Whale said:
Interestingly, Dythuwyn is more likely to cause the North to split off due to a major consolidation of power to Valleyhome.
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False, they WANT to split off, but doing so would require an unacceptable loss of vital resources. This is the basis for the oligarches control: that they want nice pots, glasswork, fine chariots, weapons, etc, but have to bargain with the oligarches to get them.

So they just sulk.
 
maximillian said:
Folks vote for many a reason, ideologies, conviction, uncertainty, deduction, assumption, amusement, bandwagon, ....etc.


One thing they all share in common, is that they don't have to bloody justify themselves. It wouldn't a vote then, but an approval test.

Discussion before or after votes is a great thing however. And nothing is stopping it.
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I'm not asking for justification. I'm looking to see if the person put more effort in that just "lol top vote *Highlight + Ctrl C +Ctrl V in comment box + Post Reply*" I Could honestly care less if you wrote a 15 page report on golden boy, or a comment saying "HAHHA his name is cooool" because it shows you actually put some thought into the vote.
 
BungieONI said:
Well I see his desire to focus on Valleyhome first as a major kick in the pants to widening the split.

I mean if he is focused on his City and Associations, then he is not focused on bridging the gap by simple logic and there is no indication he would try otherwise from what I read.
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Eh, he'll soon die anyway. But at least with him we won't waste a turn building chariots. And really, Valleyhome is already dominant anyway. I doubt there is much he could actually do to make things even worse in that regard.
 
Therealtahu said:
Neutral: Has potential but may be useless because of the council. Easily manipulated by the council.
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Academia Nut said:
"We've checked the law, there is a way to make it legit. Plus most people don't know what the king even looks like, and the ones who would speak out loudest are either right here or fall within Dythuwyn's network, and he would crush dissent in an instant. The three things he cares most about are Valleyhome, stability, and his own power, in descending order. We push this and he'll crush out any problems until it no longer matters, because she'll be old enough that no one will object, we'll all be dead or close enough from old age, and our legacies will all be secure. We keep quiet and either Dythuwyn ascends and dismantles everything we have built so that he can feed it into Valleyhome, or that fool Giirry gets the kingship and assumes good fortune comes from falling into a stream and coming out covered in gold rather than all the bloody hard work that's gone into this!"

"I've heard that the north is considering pushing forth their own candidate..."

"Phygrif isn't even a member of the People!"

"He seems to understand it well enough..."

"He's a fucking nomad!"

"He's already old enough that he won't last much longer than Dythuwyn and he won't have any idea how to deal with the clerks and traders..."

"If we want a puppet, we already have one, and one that won't make a mockery-"

"Child!"
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Perhaps you should look at what the 'council' said in the update?
 
Sivantic said:
We are the cause of them being ignored, not the oligarchy. Building more northern provinces isn't going to get them any less ignored than before.

Yes, we should do more for our northern provinces, but getting them to ignore us, isn't the way to do it.
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This isn't an us vs them thing though?

We have Lord's Loyalty, which means that all of our people think of themselves as the people first and foremost, not as the Stallion Tribes or the Western Wall or whatever.

This is an entirely internal dispute between The People, not one between the two polities of Valleyhome and The Stallion Tribes.
 
Sivantic said:
Except if that had been his plan, his agenda would be Infrastructure, not Conquest.
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Who's to say they can't do both! The thread has fucking wonder whored when a major Nomad Horde was at the gate! You're assuming this guy is going to look at literally everything else the Ymaryn are capable of and going to go 'nah, I'mma go kill some doodz its what I'm good at' when our entire government setup is to ensure a competent body of advisors is always on hand for the King.
 
Concho117 said:
Here's a quick render of the Coinage of Ymaryn.

"For a while clerks have been using the unit of the bwyll in accounting, which is generally the amount of grain or equivalent needed to feed a grown man for a day. The munbwyll and the sonbwyll are larger values, thirty and four hundred bwyll each, respectively. Every person is expected to need about one sonbwyll a year to keep themselves fed."
Any thoughts on the design?
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Text seems too much for ancient civilization to use, but simple tree and bird will work nicely.

Very clean.
 
[X] [King] Rulwyna (Main Expand Econ)
[X] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[X] [Refugee] Take in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, different benefits if Hatvalley a colony)
 
Tally again.
Adhoc vote count started by Motoko on Jun 29, 2017 at 12:58 AM, finished with 63970 posts and 53 votes.
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veekie said:
False, they WANT to split off, but doing so would require an unacceptable loss of vital resources. This is the basis for the oligarches control: that they want nice pots, glasswork, fine chariots, weapons, etc, but have to bargain with the oligarches to get them.
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Actually, the north has several iron mines IIRC, so weaponry is not a concern. They ultimately seem to rely more on the south for luxury items and industry, and we're increasingly seeing signs that they can make it on their own. This is what worried Rulwyna, after all, that they'd realize this.
 
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