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Paths of Civilization

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Guys, AN just confirmed that a main trade mission to the Highlanders could trade enough iron weapons to change the course of the lowlands war. It would keep us from needing to worry about that entire front. The Highlanders are familiar from the trophies they captured, so they would pay through the nose for them and be left dependent on us for their survival. Also, instant dominant status in new trade good.

That leaves us with time and econ to build up for the return of the nomads while only worrying about a one-front war.
 
Malevolo said:
This is Nasty, if anyone can do the calculus you will see that in a battle, this shiny is more dangerous than a arrow.
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It can be shot with as much force as a 60 lb compound bow, probably has less range, and takes up more size. looked at a different, non-wikipedia picture, seems about the same size as a bow.

It also takes a total re-gear toward using darts when bows are already in fashion.
 
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Hm...it sounds like we're definitely going to take stability hits when we integrate the Stallion tribes. We should try to do that if we actually end up with positive stability for once and have the diplomacy needed, because we're already seeing worrying amounts of cultural drift. In general I think we shouldn't let Marches last as long as they have, absorb them and acquire new ones instead.
 
Glassware said:
Hm...it sounds like we're definitely going to take stability hits when we integrate the Stallion tribes. We should try to do that if we actually end up with positive stability for once and have the diplomacy needed, because we're already seeing worrying amounts of cultural drift. In general I think we shouldn't let Marches last as long as they have, absorb them and acquire new ones instead.
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They developed the amount of cultural drift they had long before we were able to integrate them.

We instead need to make New Trails around the same time as we found the March, and provide semi-regular support or establish Holy Sites in the area in order to provoke cultural mixing.
 
Lailoken said:
Guys, AN just confirmed that a main trade mission to the Highlanders could trade enough iron weapons to change the course of the lowlands war. It would keep us from needing to worry about that entire front. The Highlanders are familiar from the trophies they captured, so they would pay through the nose for them and be left dependent on us for their survival. Also, instant dominant status in new trade good.

That leaves us with time and econ to build up for the return of the nomads while only worrying about a one-front war.
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As long as they can't figure out how to make iron weapons from the trade I'd be happy with it
 
Lailoken said:
Guys, AN just confirmed that a main trade mission to the Highlanders could trade enough iron weapons to change the course of the lowlands war. It would keep us from needing to worry about that entire front. The Highlanders are familiar from the trophies they captured, so they would pay through the nose for them and be left dependent on us for their survival. Also, instant dominant status in new trade good.

That leaves us with time and econ to build up for the return of the nomads while only worrying about a one-front war.
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Can you come up with a math-proof plan?
 
Umi-san said:
It can be shot with as much force as a 60 lb compound bow, probably has less range, and takes up more size. looked at a different, non-wikipedia picture, seems about the same size as a bow.

It also takes a total re-gear toward using darts when bows are already in fashion.
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I don't know which sort of 'compound' bow they're discussing. If it's the modern sense of a pulley system bow, this is more like a 100+ lb longbow.
 
pblur said:
I don't know which sort of 'compound' bow they're discussing. If it's the modern sense of a pulley system bow, this is more like a 100+ lb longbow.
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I assume it's a compound bow in the sense of the wood-and-horn nomadic bow, though I could be incorrect.

lmfao, composite not compound. So they they're/we're probably talking about the pulley system, or were confused by my verbage.
 
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Lailoken said:
Guys, AN just confirmed that a main trade mission to the Highlanders could trade enough iron weapons to change the course of the lowlands war. It would keep us from needing to worry about that entire front. The Highlanders are familiar from the trophies they captured, so they would pay through the nose for them and be left dependent on us for their survival. Also, instant dominant status in new trade good.

That leaves us with time and econ to build up for the return of the nomads while only worrying about a one-front war.
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Doing that would take us from "those annoying guys who take in refugees" to "those bastards who are supplying our enemy with iron weapons" in the eyes of the Thunder Horse and their vassals. We've been left alone for as long as we have because there's always been some worse enemy than us to take a swing at, but giving the Highlands Kingdom will massively jump us up on the priority list of the Thunder Horse.

As for the Highlands Kingdom, they are assholes. We do not want them to win, because they are assholes and will attack us if they feel they have something to gain from it or if we hamper their slaving activities. (And don't give me that shit about 'slavery was common in these times.' Just because it was common doesn't mean we should encourage or accept it, and the Ymaryn hate it too.) We must not gives assholes the ability to become bigger assholes, even if it gives us short-term advantages.
 
Andres110 said:
Doing that would take us from "those annoying guys who take in refugees" to "those bastards who are supplying our enemy with iron weapons" in the eyes of the Thunder Horse and their vassals. We've been left alone for as long as we have because there's always been some worse enemy than us to take a swing at, but giving the Highlands Kingdom will massively jump us up on the priority list of the Thunder Horse.

As for the Highlands Kingdom, they are assholes. We do not want them to win, because they are assholes and will attack us if they feel they have something to gain from it or if we hamper their slaving activities. (And don't give me that shit about 'slavery was common in these times.' Just because it was common doesn't mean we should encourage or accept it, and the Ymaryn hate it too.) We must not gives assholes the ability to become bigger assholes, even if it gives us short-term advantages.
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Keeping the lowlands divided isn't a short term advantage. It's very long term.

And the nice thing about iron weapons is they rust to uselessness in a few generations.
 
Andres110 said:
As for the Highlands Kingdom, they are assholes. We do not want them to win, because they are assholes and will attack us if they feel they have something to gain from it or if we hamper their slaving activities. (And don't give me that shit about 'slavery was common in these times.' Just because it was common doesn't mean we should encourage or accept it, and the Ymaryn hate it too.) We must not gives assholes the ability to become bigger assholes, even if it gives us short-term advantages.
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they practice debt slavery not involuntary captive slavery
 
Andres110 said:
As for the Highlands Kingdom, they are assholes. We do not want them to win, because they are assholes and will attack us if they feel they have something to gain from it or if we hamper their slaving activities. (And don't give me that shit about 'slavery was common in these times.' Just because it was common doesn't mean we should encourage or accept it, and the Ymaryn hate it too.) We must not gives assholes the ability to become bigger assholes, even if it gives us short-term advantages.
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The highland kingdom aren't even super-big slavers though? They modified and lessened their slavery system to be closer to our half-exile system a long time ago; if i remember right its more an idea of debts, with their slave-equivalents (in my omake for them i had them use the term "half-men" iirc) working to pay off their debt. This debt can be "you lost a war", and it can be hereditary, but you can work off said debt, and its not as bad as, say, the old (and maybe changed by now?) Dead Priest system of purposefully crippled eternal slaves.
 
MTB said:
So - lot's of babies means, fill new village. Makes kind of sense.
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Now imagining hard-bitten baby frontiersmen.
Reader of all said:
This plan I can get behind
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DocMatoi said:
I like that @Candesce
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Sugnez said:
Sure, why not.
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Still reading a few hours behind, but... should I be happy that my plan (just with Expansion Policy switched out for Balanced) is gaining traction, or sad that apparently I have no ability to move the heart of the people?
 
Andres110 said:
Doing that would take us from "those annoying guys who take in refugees" to "those bastards who are supplying our enemy with iron weapons" in the eyes of the Thunder Horse and their vassals. We've been left alone for as long as we have because there's always been some worse enemy than us to take a swing at, but giving the Highlands Kingdom will massively jump us up on the priority list of the Thunder Horse.

As for the Highlands Kingdom, they are assholes. We do not want them to win, because they are assholes and will attack us if they feel they have something to gain from it or if we hamper their slaving activities. (And don't give me that shit about 'slavery was common in these times.' Just because it was common doesn't mean we should encourage or accept it, and the Ymaryn hate it too.) We must not gives assholes the ability to become bigger assholes, even if it gives us short-term advantages.
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They are nowhere near as bad as the slave crippling, baby sacrificing, warmongering Xoh.

They don't even practice true slavery and they even have picked up some of our traditions and values.

Look, you don't know many details about the Highlanders, so try to reserve making judgements about them until you do
 
Abby Normal said:
The highland kingdom aren't even super-big slavers though? They modified and lessened their slavery system to be closer to our half-exile system a long time ago; if i remember right its more an idea of debts, with their slave-equivalents (in my omake for them i had them use the term "half-men" iirc) working to pay off their debt. This debt can be "you lost a war", and it can be hereditary, but you can work off said debt, and its not as bad as, say, the old (and maybe changed by now?) Dead Priest system of purposefully crippled eternal slaves.
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Right. It's not even 'slavery is normal, get over it.' It's that they have a relatively benign form of it.

Also, the Ymaryn don't much CARE what other people do in their land. That's what cosmopolitan acceptance is. Like, our trade mission to Xoh where they burn slaves alive commented on it as distasteful. They aren't going to freak out about slavery IC at all.
 
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