My main concern is "put us at 1 econ, within range of either Quality-econ-drain-from-war or an unlucky crit raid from teh nomads to take us to negatives"...though on the first part there's debate over whether that can even happen at 2 or less econ, so... @Academia Nut ?
On the first, I'm pretty confident in my position, but... I understand wanting clarification.

On the second, I don't think we should be planning for crit raids while we have a heroic martial. It's probably too far out on the tail.
 
Therefore the possible outcomes are:
-Hathatyn attacks Highlanders, win = Hathatyn attacks Ymaryn with full force of Heroic King.
--Possible if the horde is not redirected.
--Unlikely if the horde is redirected.
Hmm.

I think my main dispute is with this.

How confident are you in saying that they are going to be capable of attacking us after they attack the HK and win? I figure they will be spent.

My core assumptions are thus:

They are small and lead by a Hero.
They are trying to unify as well. The Hero is making good progress.
Because they are small and unifying, any victory will be costly, and it gets worse from there for them.

I figure that even if they do attack us after a win that we can re-buff them with some relative ease/possible difficulty. But if we go with west and smaller recruitment we will have the resources to re-buff them and anyone else attacking us. At least that is how this plays out in my head.

If you can counter these I have full reason to agree with you.
 
Considering we are going to end up facing the Hathyn next turn along with heroic nomads from the South I'm becoming tempted to pick mass recruitment now. A two front war is going to be nasty and we only have one heroic leader to spare agaisnt 3 heroes on two fronts.
 
It's important to remember though that the nomads aren't focusing on us specifically, they're attacking the MW, and TS as well...the eastern nomads were driven off unfortunately. This opens up an issue...if we kill the West Horde, it might upset the East Horde's hero (as that's the heir) and cause them to focus on us.
Actually they are smushed, word of AN. We absorbed the remnants. Nothing to worry about in that vector.
Don't get me wrong, your map is good. I honestly thank you for that because that makes visualization easier....but in the end, it is still a broad stroke map.
The reason it is broad strokes is because AN prefers it that way so we don't drown him in minutiae again. That way he can move things around for plot reasons.
 
I don't feel like militarizing further.
Part of the reason we need a citizen army is that it reduces our need for militarization. Right now we have 3 heroic generals who might all be attacking us next turn. We'll have opportunity to burn off the martial.
 
[X][Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X][Strategy] Relieve the west
[X][Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X][Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability

D-d-double feature!​
 
Actually they are smushed, word of AN. We absorbed the remnants. Nothing to worry about in that vector.
Thread went over this a while ago. That is the Eastern Nomads who were our friends. The East horde is still wrecking face going by the update.

E: Oh cool! Be careful not to spoil us AN. Or feed us after midnight.
:V
 
If we take out the Western Horde, next turn we'd be facing the Eastern Horde AND the Hathatyn if they beat or stalemate on the Highlanders.

No, we might be facing the Hathatyn either way. Maybe the Eastern Horde will get enough pressure off the HK that they drive the Hathatyn back and they decide to come after us. Maybe that'll happen without the Eastern Horde. But you can't say that we have any assurance we won't be fighting the Hathatyn next turn.
 
Oh wow, based AN to the rescue and thank frak the combo of Smaller-West won. Had it been Smaller-SEast, that would be a lot more dicey.
 
If we redirect the Eastern Horde so they hit the Xohyssiri(neatly solving the Xohyssiri empire issue for us), then we only have to worry about the Western Horde next turn.

If we take out the Western Horde, next turn we'd be facing the Eastern Horde AND the Hathatyn if they beat or stalemate on the Highlanders.
I think it's just the opposite.

If we take out the Western Horde, the Hathatyn would hit the HK and, finding them relatively crackable, would spend their time taking back all that territory the HK just took from them. We would be up there fighting the Eastern Horde solo.

If we redirect the Eastern Horde, the Xoh get blindsided, the HK is strong and Hathatyn attacks us instead.
 
I'll point you to other trait evolutions reducing the costs, like Observance, Justice and

Currently the problem with Quality of it's own is that it is basically citizen volunteer soldiers. The supply fluctuates easily, which is it's main flaw. So the evolution would do one of four things:
-Increase the ability to manage citizen soldiers, by making their added Martial not count for cap, or giving coping mechanisms.
-Mitigate the flaw of losing Econ when losing Yeomen.
-Increase the Martial ratio bonus...though this being mechanically OP, I doubt it's happening.
-Reverse the direction, so our Martial contributes to Econ as well.
I assume you mean "other trait evolutions reducing the cons"

Will edit in analysis of Quality of Its Own later. Or something like that.
If they don't attack us, they take a Stability hit.

*Slurping noises*
?? As in we suck them up? Or what?

Depends on the stability they reach while battling the HK or as a result of battling them. They're likely to only attack us if they successfully beat the HK because 1) WoG they'll attack the HK first, 2) if they fail to beat the HK that means they lost which means they probably lost martial. They've seen in the form of our mass boat onslaught that we're pretty damned rich, and are thus not super likely to attack.

Part of the reason we need a citizen army is that it reduces our need for militarization. Right now we have 3 heroic generals who might all be attacking us next turn. We'll have opportunity to burn off the martial.
To my understanding, making our citizens soldiers increases our militarization, by definition.
 
How confident are you in saying that they are going to be capable of attacking us after they attack the HK and win? I figure they will be spent.
Successful War Missions INCREASE Martial, not decrease it
[X][Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X][Strategy] Relieve the west
[X][Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X][Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability

D-d-double feature!​
But it' moot, because a sane combo won at least!
 
Point is definitely moot but a question I guess. Didn't we lose martial this turn even though we won and drove them away from us?
It sounded like the STs got ground up somewhat, going from what had to be enormous Martial from a century of successful war missions and buildup, to 8 Martial. The nomads presumably took similar losses.
 
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Successful War Missions INCREASE Martial, not decrease it

Should be noted that only a really successful war mission would do so. We'd have to gain enough veterans to make up for whatever amount of men we lose. So most war missions will cost us martial, even if they are successful.
Here's the quote i think veekie is referring to, unless there was a more recent one i missed/forgot:
Martial is a combination of resources for making war and institutional knowledge, and it tends to get expended in fighting, but depending on the intensity of the conflict can stay stable or increase as new veterans are produced faster than old ones are killed.
So it sounds like it would require something like "frequent but low intensity raiding, with focus on counting coup, not killing", and decent or better rolls...even something like "curbstomping non-horde nomads with almost no casualties" probably would at most be stable, since its not going to give much experience if its so easy.
 
[X] [Recruit] Mass recruitment (+6 Martial, -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -2 Centralization, additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Drive them south-east
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
 
It sounded like the STs got ground up somewhat, going from what had to be enormous Martial from a century of successful war missions and buildup, to 8 Martial.
I'd guess they lost something like 5 martial last turn. 13 martial seems like a good standing army for them, and 5 would be a fair loss for what they faced last turn.
Here's the quote i think veekie is referring to, unless there was a more recent one i missed/forgot:

So it sounds like it would require something like "frequent but low intensity raiding, with focus on counting coup, not killing", and decent or better rolls...even something like "curbstomping non-horde nomads with almost no casualties" probably would at most be stable, since its not going to give much experience if its so easy.
The way I see it, it would work like this:

We commit 5 martial to war. We lose 1 martial in casualties, but the other four become veterans. The experience they gained in battle thus makes it so they can teach new recruits better, as well as become a more powerful force themselves. So they add 2 martial from the veterancy bonus. That gives you a net gain of +1 martial.

Should be noted that the big reason we lose martial when we fight is because those people can't train the next generation, and so we lose a lot of inherited knowledge. Otherwise there would be no reason for us to permanently lose martial from war, since the next generation would easily fill those ranks.
Using citizen soldiers to build new trails and infrastructure could've been great my friends.
Mah roman legions...
 
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Here's the quote i think veekie is referring to, unless there was a more recent one i missed/forgot:

So it sounds like it would require something like "frequent but low intensity raiding, with focus on counting coup, not killing", and decent or better rolls...even something like "curbstomping non-horde nomads with almost no casualties" probably would at most be stable, since its not going to give much experience if its so easy.
What I know is that for every Secondary we commit 2 Martial. If we roll bad we lose it all, if we roll neutral we can get 1 back, good is 2(maybe?). But we roll for every 2 Martial committed.
 
We should found a March next turn. Obviously a single march (and adjacent colony) wasn't enough to handle a nomad war, but maybe two will be enough. At worst, it'll be easier to handle future nomad wars. It'll also remove enough Martial that we can do Double Main Expand Warriors the turn after without getting into dangerous levels of Martial.
 
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