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Paths of Civilization

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bluefur87 said:
I'm pointing out that we don't really need a golden age to take advantage of this. 4 stats/turn, for example, means all the megaprojects can be built easily. Along with many other things.

Squee! Though this doesn't answer my other question. Does econ gained by other stats overflowing into econ take up econ slots?
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A golden age is sexier tho
 
bluefur87 said:
I'm pointing out that we don't really need a golden age to take advantage of this. 4 stats/turn, for example, means all the megaprojects can be built easily. Along with many other things.

Squee! Though this doesn't answer my other question. Does econ gained by other stats overflowing into econ take up econ slots?
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I understand. But if the overflow into Econ didn't take up slots it would end up killing our True City. I was finding a way to spend the stats without ending True City.

But since Academia Nut says it DOES take up expand econ slots, wow. Wow wow wow. This is a way to pay for everything. We need to go hard at dominating trade goods SOON. We could be in what is (mechanically) a continual baby boom! Amazing.
 
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Dieb said:
Remember the nomad traders who brought trade good from the people by the northern bay were surprised at how little we valued salt. I assume that whoever those northern bay people are, they can produce salt in low quantities but I'm fairly sure EVERY civ can produce salt in low quantities. We certainly had salt before we got the saltern, after all, just not very much of it. But I very much doubt these northern bay people have a saltern.
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I'm not sure why you doubt that so much...the other civs aren't complete failures, you know... Also, as i mentioned way back when, while wikipedia didn't mention the exact type of saltworks used, the earliest town in europe we know about was literally built around salt production, in i think like 4000 bc. Considering we unlocked it with just a relative handful of "More Snails" giving us knowledge about how to build in and around the water, and with a [Stewards] tag, i think it's entirely possible for another coastal civ to end up with the ability to build it, whether through more focus on sea resources, a similar focus on land management as us (i really doubt we're the only civ that got "Shapers of the land" and its value-path), or just getting to bronze a little early (like how we unlocked a lot of projects we didn't have the values for with iron tools)
 
Academia Nut said:
Martial is very much the last stat to overflow, yes. The idea is that excess mystical beliefs first leads to more decorations and the like/excess art means more religious art everywhere. Once those are filled up it goes towards more trade goods.

For maxed out trade, first it goes into gaining more artworks from elsewhere to sell back home, with that art eventually overflowing into mysticism. Only once art and mysticism are overflowing does excess Diplomacy basically make the local polity so attractive that it starts drawing in more and more immigrants, producing Econ.

When Econ overflows, the first thing to happen is that the excess is traded away. Only once everything else is filled up do you start getting overflow into Martial from people lacking anything else to do.

Martial doesn't overflow, it just gets increasingly dangerous.
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This definitely sounds like the Games would help mitigate this - it's literally having nothing else to do, whereas almost everyone could practice sports and train for the Games. I'd expect a higher martial cap, prestige, and people travelling from other civs to participate or watch.
 
veekie said:
When we drop out of the lead in a trade good
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I don't think we even need to be in the lead, we just need to be pushed down a level (dominant-leading-moderate-minor-none). [Any] drop comes with a stability drop event.
It's an amazingly powerful trait since it gives effective actions every turn, but the price is a significant amount of stability.
We have no good way of raising stability now. It's amazing when you have an option like

Child Sacrifice
{S} +1 Stability
{M} +2 Stability, +1 Econ Expansion, -1 econ next turn

We don't have this option. We've got one more Enforce before we hit the centralization cap most likely, and after that all our stability options suck (except RO but we can't do that above -1 stability)

My current plan is to try to get rid of this trait ASAP. Switch to Megaproject Support to prevent the provinces from getting a monopoly, build up a Stability stockpile, and hope we can grab a large enough immigrant wave to disrupt it.
 
Dieb said:
I understand. But if the overflow into Econ didn't take up slots it would end up killing our True City. I was finding a way to spend the stats without ending True City.

But since Academia Nut says it DOES take up expand econ slots, wow. Wow wow wow. This is a way to pay for everything. We need to go hard at diplo SOON. We could be in what is (mechanically) a continual baby boom! Amazing.
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#The Vacuum Civ
 
McLuvin said:
You show your lack of knowledge about anything other than the dirt you crawl in once more!

Yes, all The People eat, but they do not just eat the wheat and harvest. Do we not eat the fish that swim in river and sea? Do we not eat of the berries and fruits of the trees? Do we not eat of the beasts we hunt and kill with our bows?

Do you so easily forget of the meat of calf you eat regularly as the gods command?
If so you show you have no room in a place of debate due to your senile nature!

The goddess of harvest is useful yes.

But you do not raise a uneducated peasant girl to a throne of kings just because she serves you the first course of your meal!

You seek to raise a goddess who is important into a place of prominence over those who are even more important!
You seek to remove the emphasis of innovation and intelligence we have focussed on for so long just for one goddess whose prominence is not as grand as you would have us think!

A goddess of one source of food, the main source though it may be, cannot be given preeminence over the creator god of wisdom itself! The unknowable mystery of Crow should not become secondary to a god who is lesser in importance!
It was Crow who made the people! Crow who made the Gods! Crow who made the Spirits!

And making wheat does not compare.
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Again you boast without substance, like a chick mimicking flight without realizing the earth supprting without a complaint.

Can you prove Crow's domain over god and world? What about wisdom?

The goddess proved her domain with our harvests when others suffered famines.

You wish to soar and fly? Go right ahead, the earth will always be here to catch your fall.
 
[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna

Just reread the update.

Crow does not need worship like most weakling gods! He is above such petty concerns.

He laughs at gods, at their pathetic desire for worship.
 
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You want to know why you should vote for the harvest deity?

Plants are naturally hermaphroditic. This means that a Goddess in charge of them and their growth has a direct influence on mystical forces.

Incidentally, this is also the most likely explanation for why so many rituals and potions require plants. They naturally have shards of both male and female and therefore naturally contain mystical power.
 
@Academia Nut Can you add "question social foundations" to the pros, too?

Also, why is the short form for the Xohyssiri Xoh? Isn't it Xo-hys-si-ri?
 
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@Academia Nut does any negative change in trade status on a good trigger the downside, or is it only losing dominant?
 
Omegahugger said:
You want to know why you should vote for the harvest deity?

Plants are naturally hermaphroditic. This means that a Goddess in charge of them and their growth has a direct influence on mystical forces.

Incidentally, this is also the most likely explanation for why so many rituals and potions require plants. They naturally have shards of both male and female and therefore naturally contain mystical power.
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Factually untrue. Some plants are naturally hermaphroditic, some are not, some switch around for the lulz/efficiency (younger trees tend to be male; older, richer trees female) (takes cougar + sugar momma to the next level) (up).

@Academia Nut Is the goddess a hermaphrodite?

10ebbor10 said:
Amazing but self-destructive.

Trade will prompt the evolution of currency, which will kill the Saltern bonus.
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Kills the saltern bonus but that's counterbalanced by shifting it into the trade bonus. Also, it would die in about the same rate of time anyways since the Xo could start developing a trustworthy currency.

Deathbybunnies said:
This definitely sounds like the Games would help mitigate this - it's literally having nothing else to do, whereas almost everyone could practice sports and train for the Games. I'd expect a higher martial cap, prestige, and people travelling from other civs to participate or watch.
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And it takes martial from being explicitly for the sake of killing toward being athletic prowess.
 
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Candesce said:
... This actually reminds me of a question I had earlier.

Does the econ gained from Black Soil take up an econ slot?

Does the econ gained by Expand Forest use up slots beyond the one required to take the action?
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I'd just assume that econ gain always takes up an econ slot. Sometimes an action, like more boats, will also create econ slots so they end up econ-slot neutral.
 
10ebbor10 said:
Amazing but self-destructive.

Trade will prompt the evolution of currency, which will kill the Saltern bonus.
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AN said that Currency would rework Diplomacy into a Wealth stat. So we'll almost certainly still get a bonus, it'll just be statted different.

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Academia Nut said:
Improved yields. Also, since you are going into the Iron Age the things that will produce currency will start cropping up, at which point part of Diplomacy and Econ is going to calve off and join to form Wealth and things will be simplified.
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