Crazy ideas!

Building giant walls between provinces and nations to better control population and goods flowing between this side and that side. Thus any and all administrative order will be limited to provincial level first.

Any and all to be executed criminals are brought to the grand temple for retrail before getting executed by Shamans. To ensure guilt without a doubt and as painless as possible.

@Academia Nut
Assessments please?
 
We shouldn't be taking this as a fucking general stance, because very often that point of stability is a bribe to get us to do something stupid.
No, usually the bribe to do something stupid is the option that sounds like "have your cake and eat it too". Which the thread has fallen for every single time.
 
No, usually the bribe to do something stupid is the option that sounds like "have your cake and eat it too". Which the thread has fallen for every single time.

Honestly for me it usually is "This is something someone could come up with, but its kind of a stupid option that is very obviously sub-optimal... and now people are going for it" or "Man, this is a great option, they're going to be so happy to have it... and they are assuming its a trap, there goes those ideas"
 
No, usually the bribe to do something stupid is the option that sounds like "have your cake and eat it too". Which the thread has fallen for every single time.

Nah, that's the ridiculously verbose write-in which assumes that every character involved is a mindless meat-puppet incapable of the slightest bit of autonomous sense and which the group votes for instead of one of the balanced standard options.
 
So, um, I noticed that everytime we get a massive immigration wave, we also get massive economic gain to compensate for it, which helps pay for everything.

So, in this era, we are able to provide for everyone because manpower counts as net economic gain.

However, I do know of Canada having a socialized healthcare system and high immigration....So maybe it isn't incompatible as I thought.
 
Crazy ideas!

Building giant walls between provinces and nations to better control population and goods flowing between this side and that side. Thus any and all administrative order will be limited to provincial level first.

Any and all to be executed criminals are brought to the grand temple for retrail before getting executed by Shamans. To ensure guilt without a doubt and as painless as possible.

@Academia Nut
Assessments please?

Wouldn't building walls between provinces discourage unity?
 
Honestly for me it usually is "This is something someone could come up with, but its kind of a stupid option that is very obviously sub-optimal... and now people are going for it" or "Man, this is a great option, they're going to be so happy to have it... and they are assuming its a trap, there goes those ideas"
:(

Well, if it's any relief we're now even less likely to bandwagon. Probably won't fix the "it's a trap!!" paranoia though.
 
It appears the social occupational mobility is getting locked out more and more.

Leadership: opening being snatched up by hereditary families and requires direct player intervention for non-hereditary king
Shaman: about as open as before
Trader: long time hereditary, ?some openings?
Warriors: male ratio growing higher, females being muscled out slowly
Artisan: no change?
Farmer: no change
Half exiles: some families got stuck in this group due to political and convenience.
 
Both our administrators and AN said it would be simple. Honestly, it seems that you're invoking this:

It's relatively simple to count, but still translates into extraordinary political messes with specialized power blocs. All the troubles of guilds taken up to 11.

Really, the animosity against just using geography is baffling. We have people fabricating horror stories of gerrymandering via repeatedly bribing, picking up, moving, housing, and managing tens of thousands of people at a time or implementing serfdom to win elections instead of line-drawing gaming. Geographic management is vulnerable to corruption, but not moreso than anything else, and certainly not to the same deep, emergent degree. The GM has told us that its biggest issue is that it will use the same cyptonepotistic procedures used everywhere else while being more obvious to everyone that the veneer of meritocracy is only a veneer, which is, if anything, an opportunity for social development and growth by confronting the oligopolistic tendencies the society has developed lately.
 
Last edited:
It's relatively simple to count, but still translates into extraordinary political messes with specialized power blocs. All the troubles of guilds taken up to 11.

Really, the animus against just using geography is baffling. We have people fabricating horror stories of gerrymandering via repeatedly bribing, picking up, moving, housing, and managing tens of thousands of people at a time or implementing serfdom to win elections instead of line-drawing gaming. Geographic management is vulnerable to corruption, but not moreso than anything else, and certainly not to the same deep, emergent degree. The GM has told us that its biggest issue is that it will use the same cyptonepotistic procedures used everywhere else while being more obvious to everyone that the veneer of meritocracy is only a veneer, which is, if anything, an opportunity for social development and growth by confronting the oligopolistic tendencies the society has developed lately.
I think you're making occupational worse out than it would actually be and you're making geographical better than it would be.
Geographical would have started off with the district chiefs (similar to clan heads and village chiefs) being selected via the pseudo-meritocratic but mostly nepotistic methods already in play, but the process would be much more noticeably unfair to the population. District leaders would be equivalent to clan leaders or village chiefs.

Occupational would sort out the number of layers based on population, meaning that it would also partially be a geographic division. And yes, those lower down in the hierarchy would vote on who to move higher up the hierarchy, until eventually you would have a Valleyhome Mason Chief, who might be second only to the overall Mason Chief in terms of representing masons in the kingdom.
Based on that, we see that geographical would definitely be bad for the population and occupational is the ideal one. Nothing bad about it is said while something bad is indeed said about geographical.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn't building walls between provinces discourage unity?

A bit i think? The goals of said provincial walls are to create jurisdiction boundaries and plague/trade/population control.

Since there doesn't appear to be clear distinction between this province and that province, so some kind of obvious boundary would help the officials determine their responsibility area. Overlapping or lack of oversight due to assuming the area is in other province's area are bad.

Just think of the province walls as walls within a house. Parents have 1 room, children have separate rooms; but everyone is under the same roof.
 
I think you're making occupational worse out than it would actually be and you're making geographical better than it would be.

Based on that, we see that geographical would definitely be bad for the population and occupational is the ideal one. Nothing bad about it is said while something bad is indeed said about geographical.
*thinks caste systems aren't bad*
*thinks people noticing injustice is bad*

A diversity of opinion is useful, although for better or worse, we're going to come to consensus on plans.
Consensus is nice bandwagon isn't.

@Lailoken animosity not animus.
 
Last edited:
Why do we even want a True City again? Honestly, I think we should wait on having it until we've reached a Golden Age. It's a source of problems and we're busy doing other things like the Great Temple.
 
@Academia Nut
Has there been regular shaman exchange between provinces? What about specialist and advisor?

I'm hopeing that our civ doesn't have too much knowledge/technology gap between provinces like ancient China. Some provinces during Han period doesn't have water wheels while others are filled with it. (It's probably cost reason of course)
 
Last edited:
Okay, I leave for a bit and everything goes a bit mad. Looks like I was right that repetition was the key to upgrading the science trait. Also, looks like the speed run tactic of 'triple study' ended up somewhat traumatizing the shamans. The fast advance resulting from that managed to lead to an upkeep on the mystic front. Still think the extra mine method would have accomplished the same, though with that result sacred warning is going to be kept intact at least. The sacred forest test had a chance to give a false read and the slack could have been an issue in the making.
The problem is not knowing(and nobody really noticed) that Martial Over Cap meant that Stability events will cause people to send war missions at random people.
Objection. Back when the martial overflowed the first time the thread had a long drawn out discussion on why idle troops carrying around super weapons would lead to them going out on their own and causing issues. It was pointed that it was unlikely to cause major internal strife due to other traits. Military units going out and accomplishing things they thought needed to be accomplished (like a random invasion of a perceived threat) was the most likely result. Being over loaded with military does things like that.

Negative stability always means there is this under current of a need to change things towards at least neutral stability. Someone wanting to screw things up in their personal favor, deciding them being in charge is the solution. Someone wanting to do 'Great Things' as they personally define 'Great Things'. Losing the humility trait can cause that.

In short, this was something talked about before... only one step removed.

This military take over of a village could be:
-Someone conquering their own fiefdom (The People would be better off with more land or them village would be better off under new management).*
-This could also be a false flag operation from TH aiming for a two front war.
-This could also be a false flag operation from the SW twits aiming for HK being involved in a two front war.
-This could be TH and the SW twits pulling a false flag operation and not know that HK is already in a two front war.
-This could be the notAztecs pulling a false flag to destabilize the HK so that TH makes them stewards of the lowlands as they've been such a good little minion for a few generations.
-Someone in HK could be at fault. Someone in HK making an independence revolt or assassination trap and the diplomatic envoy running directly into it.
-A culture clash among different people ending up with those involved being stupid at each other.
-Something completely random like the HK village growing rye and being crazed because of LSD producing microbes in the food supply.

*Funny thing about those in the first world, they often don't know how good they have it and what is average or above average treatment and infrastructural level can end up being seen as purposeful abuse of the populous elsewhere.
 
Okay, I leave for a bit and everything goes a bit mad. Looks like I was right that repetition was the key to upgrading the science trait. Also, looks like the speed run tactic of 'triple study' ended up somewhat traumatizing the shamans. The fast advance resulting from that managed to lead to an upkeep on the mystic front. Still think the extra mine method would have accomplished the same, though with that result sacred warning is going to be kept intact at least. The sacred forest test had a chance to give a false read and the slack could have been an issue in the making.

Objection. Back when the martial overflowed the first time the thread had a long drawn out discussion on why idle troops carrying around super weapons would lead to them going out on their own and causing issues. It was pointed that it was unlikely to cause major internal strife due to other traits. Military units going out and accomplishing things they thought needed to be accomplished (like a random invasion of a perceived threat) was the most likely result. Being over loaded with military does things like that.

Negative stability always means there is this under current of a need to change things towards at least neutral stability. Someone wanting to screw things up in their personal favor, deciding them being in charge is the solution. Someone wanting to do 'Great Things' as they personally define 'Great Things'. Losing the humility trait can cause that.

In short, this was something talked about before... only one step removed.

This military take over of a village could be:
-Someone conquering their own fiefdom (The People would be better off with more land or them village would be better off under new management).*
-This could also be a false flag operation from TH aiming for a two front war.
-This could also be a false flag operation from the SW twits aiming for HK being involved in a two front war.
-This could be TH and the SW twits pulling a false flag operation and not know that HK is already in a two front war.
-This could be the notAztecs pulling a false flag to destabilize the HK so that TH makes them stewards of the lowlands as they've been such a good little minion for a few generations.
-Someone in HK could be at fault. Someone in HK making an independence revolt or assassination trap and the diplomatic envoy running directly into it.
-A culture clash among different people ending up with those involved being stupid at each other.
-Something completely random like the HK village growing rye and being crazed because of LSD producing microbes in the food supply.

*Funny thing about those in the first world, they often don't know how good they have it and what is average or above average treatment and infrastructural level can end up being seen as purposeful abuse of the populous elsewhere.
I don't know what you mean by the false flag stuff. The implication of that phrase to me is that people attack a group under a different flag to prompt a retaliatory strike. There was no strike upon us that prompted our strike on that village.
 
If you want regular intermixing, it make senses to rotate megaprojects and projects between the provinces.

Upgrading our boats and our roads will also help.
 
Back
Top